Is Aggramar really as easy as it looks?

[Alphatorg]

It's really painful dealing with people like you who don't understand how the fights work in the raids yet pretend to be elitist edgelords. You don't even understand the fight. Even if you assign proper CCs, it's very possible you get poor placement of the safety zones. Try harder next time with your cuck BS. Pathetic.

I routinely pug it with 9/11M people and you hit the odd wipe. It happens.

Even if you get the worst possible alignment of Storm and adds boss timers warn you a minute (literally) in advance. Classes like (for example) Druid, Mage, Shaman, Blood DK can CC through a storm on their own, if one minute isn't enough for you to move close to any of those players or single CC two adds then that is hardly impossible RNG.

The hc pug raid of some 9/11 guild is hardly the benchmark for anything btw.

[Jonsno]

Did I miss something? Coven HC is a giant joke ever since they made storm of darkness not hit you instantly..

On-topic, aggramar is a joke if you have people that know how to CC.. so yeah, it is that easy.

[HyperJay]

Hey.

On Normal/heroic, Varimathras, Coven and Argus all feel pretty difficult, But aggramar just feels like an oversized target dummy..

Does he have anything special to him that i just haven't noticed in the few times i've defeated him on both difficulties?

It feels like he should be harder, Begin the 10th boss in a raid and a titan, But other than some spike healing every now and then, It dosen't feel like he has any special or lethal mechanics.

On Normal none of those bosses are hard, H Vari is easy, H Coven can be a challenge at times, H Aggramar is harder than H Argus so

[Marrilaife]

Did I miss something? Coven HC is a giant joke ever since they made storm of darkness not hit you instantly..

On-topic, aggramar is a joke if you have people that know how to CC.. so yeah, it is that easy.

Everything is easy when people know what to do... atm Coven LFR causes more wipes than Coven hc, because in LFR bigger portion of participants has no idea what to do.

[ydraw]

Did I miss something? Coven HC is a giant joke ever since they made storm of darkness not hit you instantly..

On-topic, aggramar is a joke if you have people that know how to CC.. so yeah, it is that easy.

I find it a bit difficult mostly because my massive penis gets in the way of me pressing my buttons. I'm sure you can relate.

[Fritters154]

Everything is easy when people know what to do... atm Coven LFR causes more wipes than Coven hc, because in LFR bigger portion of participants has no idea what to do.

I like to think that LFR will just be easy chances at legendary and building up essences for alts. Then shit like Coven, Kin'garoth, Argus, and Aggramar happen. I had a group wipe on freaking LFR Eonar this week as well as a group that actually did the mechanics on Argus correctly (no deaths through 3 phases) but still didn't have the DPS to beat enrage (There were 6 or 7 boosted characters though).

Currently, the last two wings on LFR feel way more difficult than on heroic.

[Hubbl3]

Everything is easy when people know what to do... atm Coven LFR causes more wipes than Coven hc, because in LFR bigger portion of participants has no idea what to do.

Also in LFR the DPS of the people is abysmal making everything way harder than it should be. Doing 500k or less DPS with 890 item level is just bad. I'm not calling for people to do 2M DPS, but come one. 890 gear level is enough to do around 700-900k easily, even without set or DPS legendaries. -.-

[KaPe]

Also in LFR the DPS of the people is abysmal making everything way harder than it should be. Doing 500k or less DPS with 890 item level is just bad. I'm not calling for people to do 2M DPS, but come one. 890 gear level is enough to do around 700-900k easily, even without set or DPS legendaries. -.-

... You're not doing 900k "easily" in 890 gear, especially without good legendaries. Your memory must be really foggy if you think that's the dps people did in EN/ToV gear.

[Hubbl3]

... You're not doing 900k "easily" in 890 gear, especially without good legendaries. Your memory must be really foggy if you think that's the dps people did in EN/ToV gear.

My fresh level 110 hunter with less than 12h played does that DPS, with an itemlevel of 899~. No legendaries, not even a crafted one. Which is why I brought the point up, because this hunter cleary isn't worthy of #2 or #3 DPS. And I said 700-900k, which means I would be satisfied with people doing ~700k. And that is doable. And even then, people are doing 400k. What is the excuse for that?

[Khallid]

... You're not doing 900k "easily" in 890 gear, especially without good legendaries. Your memory must be really foggy if you think that's the dps people did in EN/ToV gear.

890 gear is higher than mythic EN (which is 880), so that's more like Nighthold ilvl in reality. That might not even count legendaries, which are also now level 1000, not 910, and drop a lot faster.. We also have Artifact Knowledge rank 45. Back during EN progression we had maybe about 20 levels in our Artifact Weapon. Nowadays you get to 110, do one world quest and get 3 billion AP. You can get over 50 artifact levels in less than an hour. That's a lot of additional artifact traits. So I wouldn't be surprised with a heroic/mythic raider doing 700k - 900k easily on a fresh leveled alt.

[Hubbl3]

Nowadays you get to 110, do one world quest and get 3 billion AP. You can get over 50 artifact levels in less than an hour.

You can get up to 66~ Artifact level with just doing the 3 chests.

[ydraw]

890 gear is higher than mythic EN (which is 880), so that's more like Nighthold ilvl in reality. That might not even count legendaries, which are also now level 1000, not 910, and drop a lot faster.

It does count legendaries though. So an ilvl 890 person now has 1 lvl 1000 legendary and the rest of their gear is around 860.

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My fresh level 110 hunter with less than 12h played does that DPS, with an itemlevel of 899~. No legendaries, not even a crafted one. Which is why I brought the point up, because this hunter cleary isn't worthy of #2 or #3 DPS. And I said 700-900k, which means I would be satisfied with people doing ~700k. And that is doable. And even then, people are doing 400k. What is the excuse for that?

The excuse is that they are not heroic or mythic raiders. 400k at 895 ilvl is parsing blue or higher.

Here's Garothi Worldbreaker normal at 909 ilvl (the lowest recorded on WoL) and 40% bracket. 400k is about average. You're talking about people with gear 20 ilvls lower than that and expecting them to do twice as much damage.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=1&dataset=40

Your "pass rating" of 700k DPS is actually a 90% or higher parse at 909 level. It would be literally impossible at 890.

If you don't like LFR, that;'s fine. But don't make shit up or expect people to have the same competency as Mythic raiders in order to complete it.

[Shalanoree]

Funny thing is H Agg gets harder as your raid is more geared, on early weeks it was nothing significant but some weeks later we have to start letting first 2 small adds in at the same time cuz we constantly got the boss to 40% while there was still 1 add remaining, not we have to let do 2 and then 2 for the first 4 adds.

This. We had this problem with Mistress in ToS as well, the adds died too fast and we wouldn't have pools up for the tornados.

[NatePsy]

Heroic is pretty cake, I've yet to do Mythic but Heroic just requires CC and a competent DK that knows when to grip a new flame add in after the 20sec debuff is up and it's gg ez.

[Hubbl3]

The excuse is that they are not heroic or mythic raiders. 400k at 895 ilvl is parsing blue or higher.

Here's Garothi Worldbreaker normal at 909 ilvl (the lowest recorded on WoL) and 40% bracket. 400k is about average. You're talking about people with gear 20 ilvls lower than that and expecting them to do twice as much damage.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=1&dataset=40

Your "pass rating" of 700k DPS is actually a 90% or higher parse at 909 level. It would be literally impossible at 890.

If you don't like LFR, that;'s fine. But don't make shit up or expect people to have the same competency as Mythic raiders in order to complete it.

Okay, then Blizz should nerf LFR, because when everybody is doing 500k no boss is going down. The LFR is clearly not tuned in mind with people doing 500k DPS because else there wouldn't be wipes on berserk mechanics, like I've seen with Argus LFR. I would be totally fine with the LFR being tuned to 500k DPS or even 100k DPS average. As long as there are no wipes anymore. :P

And no, I don't how from my mind how much Damage is required to down Argus before the Berserk timer in LFR. I do know however that I had plenty of wipes during the Berserk. So either the damage requirement is too high or too many people are dying to meet it, even if 500k average raid dps would be enough to down it in time. So either way, a nerf is required.

This. We had this problem with Mistress in ToS as well, the adds died too fast and we wouldn't have pools up for the tornados.

I remember that back in Dragonsoul the better the gear got the less DPS I would do on Spine and Madness because the adds where dying faster than I could apply proper damage. Which really sucked. The highest dps I did in the first few weeks we killed them, after that it was a steady way down >.>

[ydraw]

Okay, then Blizz should nerf LFR, because when everybody is doing 500k no boss is going down.

They should at least nerf Argus. The enrage timer is too tight and the boss takes too long to kill. 15 minute fight is too long for LFR.

I would say they could up the minimum ilvl to 910, but the raid only drops 915 gear. The fight should be able to be completed with a raid of ilvl 900s parsing at 50%. It's not currently.

[Hubbl3]

There are plenty of boss fights in the LFR that are too long to be fun. Doing (nearly) 2 rotations on the High Command or on Kin'Garoth is not really fun.

[Tech614]

LFR too easy, people complain.

LFR too hard, people complain.

I don't think blizzard cares about this pointless argument.

[ydraw]

LFR too easy, people complain.

Yet to see anyone who actually does LFR complain that it's too easy. See plenty of pretend elitists complain that it exists at all, but nobody really cares what they think

LFR has to be balanced around the fact that a large percent of the people in it are going to be either AFK or at bare minimum performance levels. Otherwise it just becomes impossible.

Most people in there are only trying to compete a weekly quest. It shouldn't take more than 20 minutes to complete, but depending on luck it can take over an hour with a bad group.

[Deleted]

I'd say he's still the hardest boss in Heroic. Normal/LFR don't matter because the actual mechanics that make him challenging are neutered there.

A combination of maintaining crowd control, steadily getting adds in before the next intermission and a relatively high healing requirement (compared to the other bosses except Imonar) make him at least a challenge. When your DPS gets too high the fight becomes that much more of a headache as well since not enough fights require any form of DPS constraint anymore, so everyone is constantly on full tilt.

I personally don't think Coven is harder. Safe zones for storms should at worst be 1 tick away (and you can position yourself on the edge of the room to anticipate storms), rooting adds isn't that hard (and you don't need to root them all) and the healing requirement during healing adds is the only point in the fight where you'll actually use healing cooldowns.

I'm not disappointed by Aggramar, I think he's a properly tuned heroic boss and is a nice challenge on Mythic.

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As a healer, Coven HC must be one of the weirdest fights: I have nothing to do during 80% of the fight, and my whole mana bar is burned afterwards in 30 seconds (Norgannon adds, dealing with people badly positioned during Touch of darkness, Frozen blood). The vast majority of my job is dealing with unpredictable damage (whether it is RNG or dependent on the group) that varies every pull. On the other hand, Aggramar is really straightforward.

Yeah, Coven is a shitty fight to heal on Mythic. It's 90% of nothing happening, except watching out for Fulminating Pulse spikes and people taking Storm ticks, and then you got the Healing adds and Chilled Blood to burn your entire manapool on in seconds (as a Holy Paladin).