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  1. #1
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    Employers in 'Dark Ages' with 'antiquated' views on recruiting women

    Have any of you experienced this?

    Many employers are acting like they are in the "Dark Ages" and have "antiquated" views on hiring women, a study has found.

    New evidence has found that three in five employers believe it is reasonable to ask a woman if she has young children and if she is pregnant during an interview.

    While two in five said women who had more than one child while in the same job could be a "burden" to the team, and half said workers sometimes resented women who were pregnant or on maternity leave.

    The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) said its study revealed antiquated beliefs and showed that many employers needed more support to better understand the basics of discrimination law and the rights of pregnant women and new mothers.

    Chief Executive of the Commission, Rebecca Hilsenrath, called the results "a depressing reality".

    She continued: "When it comes the rights of pregnant woman and new mothers in the workplace, we are still living in the Dark Ages.

    "We should all know very well that it is against the law not to appoint a woman because she is pregnant or might become pregnant.

    "Yet we also know women routinely get asked questions around family planning in interviews."

    Sarah, a mother of two young children who was made redundant during maternity leave for her first child, said: "It's sad to think that things like this are still happening.

    "I feel angry all the time that you can be a mother with young children and unless you're in a job that protects you, your whole world can come tumbling down - out of your control.

    "It is essential for employers to be honest and ensure there is good communication between them and those on maternity leave so that pregnant women and new mothers are given the support they deserve."

    Campaigners said the results revealed "outdated, discriminatory views" which were holding women back in the workplace.

    TUC general secretary Frances O'Grady said that women should not be forced to choose between having a career and a family.

    "But thousands are being forced from their job every year. Pregnancy discrimination scars lives and careers.

    "Employers are getting away with breaking the law on an industrial scale."

    Young Women's Trust chief executive Dr Carole Easton said employers and the economy were both missing out on the talents of young women.

    "Today's findings show many employers, given half a chance, would run roughshod over women's rights.

    "It's no wonder women are held back in the workplace when people have such outdated, discriminatory views.

    "It is employers and our economy that miss out on the talents of young women as a result.

    "Young women who want to work are, meanwhile, finding themselves in debt and relying on food banks."

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Tikaru's Avatar
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    I mean, I can see where the company is coming from. The company has a position that needs to be filled, they want someone who's going to be there to do the job, not leave for several weeks shortly after being hired.

    Take out the "ERMAHGERD PATRIARCHY" mindset for a moment and imagine that the company has to choose between two male candidates for a position: both are equally qualified, but one is planning on taking a two month leave a couple months into the position. If the company chooses the candidate who doesn't plan on being absent for a long period of time, would that be wrong?

  3. #3
    The dark ages never existed. But except for the antiquated historical knowledge of the journalist who wrote this piece I believe what's being said altough I find some of the conclusions drawn from the limited ammount of information are stretching it a bit. But whats obvious is that people are idiots, who knew. I've never experienced this as I'm no woman and never been turned down for a job I applied too.
    Last edited by P for Pancetta; 2018-02-19 at 02:07 PM.

  4. #4
    Yeah... Imagine that... companies dont want to spend the time and money training a woman who is planning to get pregnant, so they can hire and train someone else to do the same job, then have to pay that person a severance when the woman comes back...

  5. #5
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    I have had reverse discrimination against me. When offered the opportunity to pursue a trade, my employer would not let me choose the one I wanted. I was only given one option out of 3. The other two positions are offered to females only, even though they aren't strong enough to do two of the three trades available. So I'd love for someone to explain how reverse discrimination is acceptable when it's unacceptable to discriminate against hiring women? I certainly would not make a woman my first candidate for being a fucking millwright unless she is actually built for the job. We have one girl who is about 5'4 and weighs less than 100 pounds and she can't even lift half her own body weight which is a requirement for the job. Shit don't make sense.

  6. #6
    If it has an effect on the company it is reasonable. If it is right or wrong is a whole different question and we need a lot more info to determine that. Is enough support in place for companies to handle a pregnant employee or one with frequent absences for any reason?

    This isn't some abstract question only about human rights. A majority of companies are small and might run into problems if you are at home 240% more than other employees. Obviously the rights of parents and children will have to be taken into account but there are more people involved here.

  7. #7
    I guess it’s bad for a company to look out for itself.

    Although, it is illegal to ask a perspective employee (male or female) if they have children during an interview.

    Peace

  8. #8
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    I'm a woman and I totally understand. It's not only that you'll have to find a replacement for an employee that just started, but when she gets back, chances are that you can't depend on her 100% either. I've seen it time and again in my 15 years of work experience.

    Coming in an hour late, because you have to drop of the kid at school, but obviously leaving on time (or even early, to pick him up), and not writing it as leave either. Staying or going home because the kid is sick and expecting colleagues to pick up your slack. Never available to work late (and it only happened 4-5 times a year where I worked, but even that was too much). Lots of phonecalls/skype/whatsapp during work to chat with the kid. Somehow claiming the right to determine when everyone can have their holidays, because they need to have them during school holidays. Screw the rest, right? And there are countless more examples like that.

    And sure, there are exceptions, but as an employer, I wouldn't take that chance either.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord Krothar's Avatar
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    My fiancee works at a Nursery, you know, a work place predominately made up of women.

    At her last place of work, also a Nursery where she had worked for nearly 10 years before it closed she was passed up time and again for promotions because she had time off for maternity leave.

    Bare in mind that the owner/manager and the deputy manager were both also women, so it wasn't a patriarchy thing. They held it against her though, whenever it came up how long she had worked there, the manager would always dock a year with the excuse of "Well, you were off for 9 months on maternity leave."

    This excuse was used for anything from promotions to pay increases. They made it seem like she wasn't loyal to the business because she had been off on maternity whilst working there.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimjinx View Post
    The dark ages never existed. But except for the antiquated historical knowledge of the journalist who wrote this piece I believe what's being said altough I find some of the conclusions drawn from the limited ammount of information are stretching it a bit. But whats obvious is that people are idiots, who knew. I've never experienced this as I'm no woman and never been turned down for a job I applied too.
    I asked if any of you have experienced this... I am neither a pregnant woman or employer, my imput would be that of ignorance

  11. #11
    "Antiquated" view? Or just, realistic and practical because it affects the bottom line, which is what literally every business is about, you know, to stay in business?

    Bias in favor of someone based on sex is also a realistic thing.

    It's not a judgement or a denial of rights of women to hire men to do things that require brute strength or reliability.

    It's also not a judgment or a denial of rights of men to hire women to do things that require patience, emotional and psychological understanding, and tolerance.

    All posts like this does is help leftists virtue signal and pat themselves on the back for acting like they have 'less antiquated' moralities.

    How to post a topic as a liberal leftist on this forum:

    1) Post inflammatory attention seeking statement, labeling things "backwards, neo-nazi, hatespeech" that you simply disagree with

    2) Assume moral highground by pretending your views are 'progressive' and 'new' when they aren't, whatsoever, and are not solely shared by just your viewpoint

    3) Bash and label and demonize those who disagree with you based not on their argument, but on your own assumed morality.

    4) "Profit"
    Last edited by meowfurion; 2018-02-19 at 02:26 PM.

  12. #12
    I work with a lot of women in a professional career. If I owned a company I would only hire certain women after rigorous scrutiny. I have worked at jobs with all men, and my current one with 70/30 female to male. This one has more drama than I could have ever imagined. If the queen bee doesn't like a new lady, then they act in a spiteful and self serving manner and get them fired. Constant crying, constant fighting, constant bullying, constant people from all sides bitching to me and others trying to prove their point. It's just fucking nonsense. Add getting pregnant to that and it destroys any semblance of competence in the work place. I loathe the guy talk that most men have, only ever asking if someone has seen the game. But I would rather fake a conversation with them than listen to the trite bullshit of these ladies personal affairs and grievances that occur every single day.

  13. #13
    Well, this was totally not the response I expected.
    Drumming up the crowd only to find out they're in agreement with the action.

    I agree, it's not fair to a company to hire a woman who is planning, or has gotten pregnant. You have to have people run the show. Having a child isn't just expensive to the parent, but for the company as well. Even in countries with better insurance, not having that workforce and having to fire people for you to return costs an immense amount. Why do they have to pay for your decision? The answer is they shouldn't. Nobody should be forced to participate if they don't want to.

  14. #14
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    Here are my 2 cents as an employer.

    If I recruit people for a position, pregnancy will always be an important factor when deciding who to hire.
    It costs money to lose someone for 6 months and in the Netherlands they often return to the job only to work part-time too.

    That doesn't mean I don't hire women (42 out of 96 employees are female), but I do take it into the equation if they are likely going to go for a baby within the first 2 years or on the longer term. I have to think from the business side of things after all, nothing to do with my personal views or ideals.

    In the end I even favour female employees over most men, because they are more driven, energetic and serious about their job. Especially in their 20's, the men are just big children while the women are way more mature. Plus, women in sales get consistent better results in my experience.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs View Post
    I work with a lot of women in a professional career. If I owned a company I would only hire certain women after rigorous scrutiny. I have worked at jobs with all men, and my current one with 70/30 female to male. This one has more drama than I could have ever imagined. If the queen bee doesn't like a new lady, then they act in a spiteful and self serving manner and get them fired. Constant crying, constant fighting, constant bullying, constant people from all sides bitching to me and others trying to prove their point. It's just fucking nonsense. Add getting pregnant to that and it destroys any semblance of competence in the work place. I loathe the guy talk that most men have, only ever asking if someone has seen the game. But I would rather fake a conversation with them than listen to the trite bullshit of these ladies personal affairs and grievances that occur every single day.
    Pretty much idiotic answers like this that reinforce nonsense is why asking a lot of these types of questions are illegal.

  16. #16
    Banned Lazuli's Avatar
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    It's not sexist or 'dark ages' at all.. women who are pregnant / having a child usually cannot be depended on in a work place. If you plan on getting pregnant , make sure you got your shit figured out. If you accidentally get pregnant, well that aint the companies fault, there are now candidates that are more qualified and reliable than you.

    It sucks but that's the reality

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasX View Post
    sexism
    ˈsɛksɪz(ə)m/Submit
    noun
    prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

    Funny thing: bias in favor of somebody based on sex is till sexism.
    Oh I know.

    Here's some blatant discrimination http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...nous-1.4531723

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasX View Post
    My brain hurts. How? What? Eh.
    Hiring someone based on sex or race alone and by doing so excluding another race/sex is sexist and racist is what he is saying.

  19. #19
    I mean, it's a pretty shit situation. Companies don't want to hire women who plan to get/are already pregnant because it costs them time and money, while pregnant women want money and time off with literally no repercussions. I do understand that they obviously need time off, but maybe it's the whole paying them for doing no work that I personally have a hard time with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tikaru View Post
    Take out the "ERMAHGERD PATRIARCHY" mindset for a moment and imagine that the company has to choose between two male candidates for a position: both are equally qualified, but one is planning on taking a two month leave a couple months into the position. If the company chooses the candidate who doesn't plan on being absent for a long period of time, would that be wrong?
    Pretty much the exact same analogy. Why should you pay the guy who won't be here for 2 months over an actively able employee? Not fair to the company if you ask me.

    The best case scenario I can think of is considering adoption if you want to be a female in the workplace and wanting to be a mother. The world has more than enough children without a home and too many people to begin with. Why not raise one of them over adding yet another child to the world?
    Still wondering why I play this game.
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  20. #20
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Granted the thread is only 2 pages in, but are you guys crazy? On this forum, you're meant to stand on the woman's side.

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