Page 33 of 54 FirstFirst ...
23
31
32
33
34
35
43
... LastLast
  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    uhh it also makes it instant, meaning you can get them out much faster then if you were having to cast it...
    at instant you are only waiting on the gcd now instead of 1.X it has
    The cast is 1.5s, the gcd is 1.5 seconds. You save no time by making it instant.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Yeah i kinda like cdf's animation but id do something completely different with it mechanically. I have no love for it in its current form, just having a spell like that that needs to be kept on cd isnt super engaging.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Its already updated on demo, destros still uses the old animation. Just more things that make it seem like something they tried but arent following through on.
    It's virtually a pyroblast clone, I don't think it will go live as is. People would be justifiably pissed. It doesn't even have the new red/black demonfire tints that all our fire spells have.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    It doesn't really matter if Lone Wolf style talents are better or worse. They just need to be close enough that they can be chosen or not chosen without feeling like they'd gain/lose a ton of damage for doing so. Most people don't need a 0.1% damage increase to progress, but when these talents start pushing into noticeable numbers people feel forced to take them so that they can be competitive.

    I love talents that try to balance well enough that you can deviate for the sake of flavor or personal choices without feeling like you're gimping yourself. Lone Wolf, as far as I can tell right now, transcends into that area, while the talent for frost is only slightly better, making it viable to use the elemental if you prefer to do so.
    It will never be balanced, abandon this pipedream of yours.

    Lone Wolf will always dominate for the simple fact that it applies to all your spells, including cleave and aoe, so if lone wolf option is putting as much single target out as the pet option, it will vastly outperform it in cleave and aoe since the pet doesn't cleave at all.

    Then there's the issue of scaling, since the pet does not benefit from mastery while lone wolf does, as the mastery increases the pet becomes irrelevant.

    If they are remotely tuned to be similar, lone wolf will reign for the simple fact it amplifies burst instead of being a dot delivery mechanism.

    The pet option would need to be noticeably ahead of lone wolf in sustained damage to justify losing the burst, cleave, and aoe benefits of lone wolf.

    It's why affliction and demo need to do significantly more sustained damage than destruction to begin with, otherwise what's the point of playing any of those specs when you got one that sustains as well and does far better priority target damage.
    Last edited by Lucrece; 2018-02-18 at 08:08 PM.

  3. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    It's virtually a pyroblast clone, I don't think it will go live as is. People would be justifiably pissed. It doesn't even have the new red/black demonfire tints that all our fire spells have.
    Oh i dont thinl any of the effects are done at this point, was just saying its already been updated.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    The cast is 1.5s, the gcd is 1.5 seconds. You save no time by making it instant.
    Not entirely true, you could keep a pool and burn them for movement, in which case you'd save time, which means it opens up gameplay decisions. Moment to moment gameplay decisions is what keeps a rotation from feeling stale. Having instant cast options for movement are a huge deal.
    What are you willing to sacrifice?

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by kendro1200 View Post
    Not entirely true, you could keep a pool and burn them for movement, in which case you'd save time, which means it opens up gameplay decisions. Moment to moment gameplay decisions is what keeps a rotation from feeling stale. Having instant cast options for movement are a huge deal.
    But you don't actually save time. Like, it's still 1.5s of "cast time" whether you're moving or not. If there is little to no movement to leverage the instant status, there is literally zero DPS gain from taking the talent as it stands.

    And even on fights with fair amounts of movement, it'd have to be determined whether filling those otherwise empty GCDs (would they even be empty?) is more damage than one of the others on the row would offer.

  6. #646
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bio347 View Post
    But you don't actually save time. Like, it's still 1.5s of "cast time" whether you're moving or not. If there is little to no movement to leverage the instant status, there is literally zero DPS gain from taking the talent as it stands.

    And even on fights with fair amounts of movement, it'd have to be determined whether filling those otherwise empty GCDs (would they even be empty?) is more damage than one of the others on the row would offer.
    Yes, if we'd take Demonic Strength (combined with the T15 version) our felguard will deal allot of damage. 50% + 100% + 4 extra attacks/20sec while just doing our basic SB/SF casting. With the current talents, overload would be a dps loss for making SF instant.

    Also don't forget, we get 4MC, but we only want to cast 2 SF max before we need to use HoG, stoping our movement temporarily.

  7. #647
    overload does have the current PT/SI vibe to it if that rotation does work, but it does sound a little worthless compared to the other talents.

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    We have already been in this when Chaos Bolt was a talent, basically a slightly more powerful Incinerate on CD that could pierce shields ooOoOoOOOooo...

    Soul Fire as it looks in Destruction talent tree is almost surely a placeholder, otherwise it's really lame. Might as well just give Chaos Bolt +x% damage there and it would be same shit and one place on bars saved.

    If they really want to give us another nuke there, they should at least make it different and not virtually copy paste of Chaos Bolt, just slightly more powerful and on CD. CDF is a good example where it is different enough from Chaos Bolt to be worth of being a spell on its own.

    I bet it's placeholder.

    - - - Updated - - -

    As a side note, I am completely chill about Destruction being all about big huge Chaos Bolts, it is cool IMO, having this fat, costly spell that hurts shit bad and being all around overclocking it to high heaven.

    I think Destruction was too watered down in Legion with pets and shit, so I'm cool with it being a bit more on nuking side of things instead of a soup of stuff.
    Those were the days, when chaos bolt was improved incinerate and went under the gcd cap with backdraft....

    I didn't mind empowered imp procs though... But wouldn't want them back, I would just rather use the demon I wanted, or what utility is required (interrupt/ purge/ dispel) without the damage hit. Or just sac and use them anyway lol.

    On a side note do we get our last stand back with voidwalker sacrifice?

  9. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by Maleific View Post
    On a side note do we get our last stand back with voidwalker sacrifice?
    Yeah, the Voidwalker gives a cd that gives a 30% health buff when sacced.

  10. #650
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    And dogs or any cds, youd also be trading dmg for mobility by making sf instant which wont always be what you want to do.

    It could be interesting, ill def give it a go (though its hard since everything dies so fast. Need to get a char to org)

    - - - Updated - - -



    Db doesnt really give aff that, it takes you 7 casts of setup + the db cast before it does damage. All it really does is make your shard spending very strict and scripted.
    Precisely. I was responding to a post that claimed that affliction was perfectly fine because it's a strong raiding spec.

    Was just pointing out that for probably a majority of players - this is irrelevent, since they do not play raids outside of LFR, which is not really raiding at all.

    There have also been silly comments about aff having strong multitarget damage so it shoudl be bottom on single target. This of course would be extremely damaging given that council fights or long-lived add type fights are virtually exclusive to raiding - if you make aff rock bottom single target then it woul dbe an extremely unattractive proposition for BfA since there is a heavier emphasis on dungeons

    Which is no suprise, since a lot of guilds have burnt out by raiding, and raiding - despite being the 'end game' - has become a smaller and smalle rpart of played content for many players.

    Certainly on my realm you just do not see the numbers of people in raiding tier sets that you once would have. And they are even removing one of the biggest raiding incentives there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    It's why affliction and demo need to do significantly more sustained damage than destruction to begin with, otherwise what's the point of playing any of those specs when you got one that sustains as well and does far better priority target damage.
    Yes. Both need 'compensation' in return for the penalty they pay in the form of ramp and low on-demand burst.

    If they have the same sustained damage as burst classes, they beome very unattractive

  11. #651
    So how are we looking boys and girls? everyone happy so far??

    I'm glad Shadowbolt and Nightfall are back for Affliction - makes my Lock feel like it's old TBC self again, LOVING that. what I'm worrying about is how our selfhealing will be, as let's face it that's majority of our survival in raids/dungeons/soloing. Will it be only from talenting Siphon Life and/or channeling the occasional Drain Life?

    Spent majority of BfA playing a Hunter after ditching Lock in MoP for Monk, changing to Hunter in Legion... I'd REALLY like to go back to Lock as my "only class played"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bio347 View Post
    You can call it choice, but according the guides I've looked at both MM and Frost take their LW talents because they're better than the other options. Which means it's not a choice, for the most part. Not really. The same has gone for Sac whenever it's been a percentage increase.

    And that's fine, I guess. But you can't argue for both "choice" and "percentage damage increase" in the same argument because they are, and always have been, mutually exclusive.
    effectively means not having to rely on a pet and it's terrible pathing/poor reliability.

  12. #652
    Where does this "heavier emphasis on dungeon content" idea come from? I've seen nothing that supports this theory, we're getting Mythic+ and raids in BfA just like we had in Legion, there is no more focus on one or the other in the current development for BfA.

    If anything, the watercooler post a few weeks back indicated blizzard are trying to shape specs for different purposes so you don't have 1/2/3 specs doing the same thing in a different style but rather you have a different spec for different goals (ie. burst/sustain/aoe/ST/cleave etc.)

    When you play a class that has only 1 dps spec, you need to be able to do a bit of everything and be balanced at it. But for pure classes, you have 3 specs that often fit they same role(range/melee) you need to have specs that do different things or you'll always just end up with 1 spec being numerically superior.

    Shaman for example has a range and melee dps spec, so they have 2 roles. Regardless of balance, you need to pick a role and fill it.
    While Locks and Mages have 3 ranged specs, if all 3 are capable of burst/sustain/cleave/ST/aoe then the spec that does more dummy parse numbers is the only "viable" spec in the eyes of the masses. But if affl is the council/high movement fight king, destro is the burst/2 target king and demo is the AoE/ST king (for example!) then you have a reason to play all 3 specs.

    This is healthy for the game, especially in an Xpac that has removed all the shit that locked us into 1 spec like Legion did.
    Last edited by Khrux; 2018-02-19 at 04:20 PM.

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by Khrux View Post
    Where does this "heavier emphasis on dungeon content" idea come from? I've seen nothing that supports this theory, we're getting Mythic+ and raids in BfA just like we had in Legion, there is no more focus on one or the other in the current development for BfA.

    If anything, the watercooler post a few weeks back indicated blizzard are trying to shape specs for different purposes so you don't have 1/2/3 specs doing the same thing in a different style but rather you have a different spec for different goals (ie. burst/sustain/aoe/ST/cleave etc.)

    When you play a class that has only 1 dps spec, you need to be able to do a bit of everything and be balanced at it. But for pure classes, you have 3 specs that often fit they same role(range/melee) you need to have specs that do different things or you'll always just end up with 1 spec being numerically superior.

    Shaman for example has a range and melee dps spec, so they have 2 roles. Regardless of balance, you need to pick a role and fill it.
    While Locks and Mages have 3 ranged specs, if all 3 are capable of burst/sustain/cleave/ST/aoe then the spec that does more dummy parse numbers is the only "viable" spec in the eyes of the masses. But if affl is the council/high movement fight king, destro is the burst/2 target king and demo is the AoE/ST king (for example!) then you have a reason to play all 3 specs.

    This is healthy for the game, especially in an Xpac that has removed all the shit that locked us into 1 spec like Legion did.
    People whining about m+ balance compose pointless whine anyways. Raids is where balance occurs, and if you don't raid and only do m+, then you shouldn't worry about pushing keys for gearing purposes because honestly you're not going to use that ilv for content that actually requires it; it goes to waste.

    Should aoe and CC be more reasonably distributed? Sure. But it's perfectly fine that some classes are just better at aoe and ST, what's important is that people can still bring some semblance of aoe or ST and not be boned on either even if they're doing less of it by some degree.

  14. #654
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    The cast is 1.5s, the gcd is 1.5 seconds. You save no time by making it instant.
    that is a gross simplification tho as it does more than just that, it also significantly increase your shard generation, almost doubling it and dont try to downplay the importance of mobility for a spec like demo, not to mention that it isnt just 1,5 sec vs gcd but it is also gcd vs 4 secs as you need to cast twice the amount of shadow bolts to generate the same amount of shards as a single soulfire, ofc you do have a point that if you look at only the gains of an instant cast soulfire vs a hardcast molten core soulfire but when you then add the fact that you'll completely remove shadow bolt from your rotation, then it becomes a different matter entirely but getting more and better mobility is HUGE for demo and the potential synergy with demonic comsumption and nether portal/inner demons makes this particular combo quite potent.

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    Should aoe and CC be more reasonably distributed? Sure. But it's perfectly fine that some classes are just better at aoe and ST, what's important is that people can still bring some semblance of aoe or ST and not be boned on either even if they're doing less of it by some degree.
    It's not fine when the differences are in the order of 50-60%. Aff warlocks and Mistweaver monks are doing 4m+ AOE dps in high M+ keys, while other specs are around 2.6m. That's way too much of a difference to be fair and it's only out of pure laziness that they can't balance it better than that.

  16. #656
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    that is a gross simplification tho as it does more than just that, it also significantly increase your shard generation, almost doubling it and dont try to downplay the importance of mobility for a spec like demo, not to mention that it isnt just 1,5 sec vs gcd but it is also gcd vs 4 secs as you need to cast twice the amount of shadow bolts to generate the same amount of shards as a single soulfire, ofc you do have a point that if you look at only the gains of an instant cast soulfire vs a hardcast molten core soulfire but when you then add the fact that you'll completely remove shadow bolt from your rotation, then it becomes a different matter entirely but getting more and better mobility is HUGE for demo and the potential synergy with demonic comsumption and nether portal/inner demons makes this particular combo quite potent.
    What he means is that without the talent, a MCSF = 1.5sec cast time, the same as the GCD so when standing still, Overloading is a dps loss. You should take Demonic Strength if you want more dps, combined with T15 Demonic Strength for more AoE. Power Siphon is the real DPS increase that would make ditching Shadowbolt a possibility with the current information we have. Overloading does make a nice "helter-skelter" talent, 2GCD movement 1 GCD casting HoG.

  17. #657
    did they completely removed aff artifact ability?
    .

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by nVIDIA View Post
    did they completely removed aff artifact ability?
    All artifact abilities are gone except for those turned into talents.

    It's their shit ass pruning all over again. I can't believe they took shadow priest's void torrent and balance druid's moon spells, since those spells were even more integral to the gameplay of those specs.

  19. #659
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    It will never be balanced, abandon this pipedream of yours.

    Lone Wolf will always dominate for the simple fact that it applies to all your spells, including cleave and aoe, so if lone wolf option is putting as much single target out as the pet option, it will vastly outperform it in cleave and aoe since the pet doesn't cleave at all.

    Then there's the issue of scaling, since the pet does not benefit from mastery while lone wolf does, as the mastery increases the pet becomes irrelevant.

    If they are remotely tuned to be similar, lone wolf will reign for the simple fact it amplifies burst instead of being a dot delivery mechanism.

    The pet option would need to be noticeably ahead of lone wolf in sustained damage to justify losing the burst, cleave, and aoe benefits of lone wolf.

    It's why affliction and demo need to do significantly more sustained damage than destruction to begin with, otherwise what's the point of playing any of those specs when you got one that sustains as well and does far better priority target damage.
    A lot of incorrect assumptions here.

    1. I'm not expecting perfect balance. I'm hoping for relative balance so that one doesn't dramatically break the other. As mentioned frost mages are a good example, because the pet alternative is only slightly behind lonely winter. Lone wolf completely dominates the others.

    2. The fact that lone wolf eliminates the pet is irrelevant as to whether or not it's an increase in AOE damage. Whether or not it's an increase depends on whether the other talents increase AOE damage

    3. Scaling is fair, but it's more of an issue as to how well the talent scales vs other talents, not how well the talent scales vs the pet.

    In general you are comparing the talent to the pet, when it's important to also consider the other talents. The other talents are kind of bad and that's the primary issue as to why lone wolf is so good. Fix that problem and the rest will fix itself.

  20. #660
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinuvial View Post
    What he means is that without the talent, a MCSF = 1.5sec cast time, the same as the GCD so when standing still, Overloading is a dps loss. You should take Demonic Strength if you want more dps, combined with T15 Demonic Strength for more AoE. Power Siphon is the real DPS increase that would make ditching Shadowbolt a possibility with the current information we have. Overloading does make a nice "helter-skelter" talent, 2GCD movement 1 GCD casting HoG.
    yeah, from that point of view i get your point bcoz you could spam soulfires all day by simply taking power siphon alone atleast on fights with low movement as demonic strength in that row should make up for the loss of dps while moving, but there will definately be situations where overloaded or even the scourge bombers will be the best option.

    my only problem with demo on alpha atm is that there isnt a go-to ability for aoe, as crappy as demonwrath was, it was still a nice thing to have as something is still better than nothing, but i guess HoG is suppose to solve that since it hits for a ton and is the only option outside of our 45-90 sec cds, i do like the idea of demonic consumption with power siphon+nether portal/inner demons as it allows for a ton of imps to be summoned(8-16ish) and then be sacced for your demon commander for massive aoe(ofc depends on how big a buff the commander gets pr imp), altho i think the cd is a bit too long atm, i feel like they could add something like reducing the cd of the commander by 1 sec pr. demon sacrificed when taking demonic consumption.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •