Tuition Fees: YAY or NAY?

[Elegiac]

Hey now, everybody uses FREEDOM.

What, do you hate FREEDOM or something?

Freedom is no concern of the Soviet Union, comrade.

[Antiganon]

It's not "semantic" when you're demanding people pay for a service they might never use. Just like health care, just like unemployment, just like anything else people are ransomed to pay that they might not use. To the left, everything is an entitlement, nothing has to be earned, and resources are infinite.

Please tell me about how you have never seen a doctor or been to a hospital in your entire life (including at birth), how you have never been unemployed or benefited from an unemployed family member not dying in the street.

The point of government is to protect the rights of the people and provide for the general welfare of the populace.

Education, healthcare, etc are all about the general welfare.

[Deleted]

What?

Also, what's the difference between college and university in this context?

College is free, it's usually for 16+ and offers basic courses. University is more advanced

[Tijuana]

You have universities in the US that admits just about anyone that applies, no requirements?

Yeah, state universities will accept any Freshman with a high school diploma from that state, and some even accept a GED, which is a test you can take to show you learned what you were supposed to, despite your grades.

Some of those students work out, but many just get in the way, and provide income for the university.

[Player Twelve]

Yeah, but you're Sweden right wing. You might as well be Bernie Sanders by US standards.

I don't really see how, considering he describes himself as a democratic socialist, that's basically the far-left in Sweden.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderate_Party (Party I support, although not a fan of Reinfeldt but he's gone now)

The Moderate Party states that its ideology is a mix of liberalism and conservatism, and corresponds to what is called liberal conservatism. The term liberalism is in Sweden and most of Europe not used in the way that it is currently used in the United States to denote modern liberals and progressives, but is closer to the traditional meaning of classical liberalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Party_(Sweden) (Party that are the socialists)

The Left Party (Swedish: Vänsterpartiet, V) is a socialist and feminist political party in Sweden on an ecological basis. The party originated as a split from the Swedish Social Democratic Party in 1917 as the Swedish Social Democratic Left Party (Sveriges socialdemokratiska vänsterparti, SSV), and became the Communist Party of Sweden in 1921. In 1967, the party was renamed Left Party - Communists, and in 1990, it adopted its current name. The party has never been part of a government at the national level.

Quite some differences between them.

[Tijuana]

No, the argument is that you'd need post-secondary education to get jobs as construction workers or housekeepers. Y'know, the same way you currently need a high school diploma to become a cashier, even if none of the stuff you learn in secondary school is really necessary.

I don't even know what you are on about. But I'll be the decision maker on what my arguments are, thank you very little.

You factually do NOT need a high school diploma to be a cashier in the US. Obviously.

[Elegiac]

I don't even know what you are on about. But I'll be the decision maker on what my arguments are, thank you very little.

You factually do NOT need a high school diploma to be a cashier in the US. Obviously.

I mean, maybe in Realville, Kentucky.

In the civilized parts of the country we require a diploma or GED.

[Antiganon]

I don't really see how, considering he describes himself as a democratic socialist, that's basically the far-left in Sweden.

Was a bit of hyperbole, intended as a joke.

[Puupi]

College is free, it's usually for 16+ and offers basic courses. University is more advanced

I assume you are talking about sixth form college instead of college. Which are two different things.

[Deleted]

I assume you are talking about sixth form college instead of college. Which are two different things.

No, in the UK you have:

Junior & Infants School 5-11
High School/Secondary School 11-16
6th Form (which is usually attached to the school) 16-18
College 16+
University 16/18+

[Deleted]

I don't mind the tuition fees so much, i mind the amount of them though. And then the interest on the loan just fucking you over even more in the longer term.

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Also things might not be as bad if we didn't tell a whole generation of kids that they have to have degrees adn going to university will solve all of their problems.

[Grapemask]

In America, tuition, like healthcare, shows what happens when privatization and capitalism collide with a necessary service. When you could live off of wages from jobs that didn't require a college education, college cost a hefty chunk but it was still reasonable. Now, we've become a society so dependent on a college degree for a livable wage that the institutions know they can charge a fortune and get away with it. And because they're raking in so much cash, even public universities are being run more and more like private businesses to maximize profit.

I've probably posted here about the University System of Georgia more than a few times. On one hand, Georgia has one of the better programs for providing for student tuition: the HOPE scholarship provides about ~$5000 per year to all residents of Georgia that maintain a high GPA. On the other hand, the USG also hikes tuition prices for all public colleges across the board by 5-10% every year, giving 500% (or higher!) raises to the presidents of each institution, while those institutions also largely keep faculty and staff in a perpetual wage freeze. Everything about it feels dirty and corrupt, but you can't call it corrupt when all of this is the intended design of the system and explicitly allowed.

[Deleted]

Nothing of value is free. If you get something for free, you will treat it as something with no value too.

[Player Twelve]

You keep using the term "right-wing". I do not think it means what you think it means.

Are you going to tell me the moderate party in Sweden are left-wing?

[Macaquerie]

I thought conservatives all hated colleges for being cesspools of liberal SJW propaganda. Why are they so adamant that kids be forced to pay exorbitant fees to be subjected to that?

[Player Twelve]

I mean, even the far right in Sweden are socialist. We're operating on two totally different definitions here.

No, they're not. We have the left party who are socialists out of the parties big enough to get into the parliament.

[XDurionX]

So currently in the UK there's a debate about Tuition Fees for Universities and whether or not they should be lowered or even abolished. So my question is this: Are you in favour of Tuition Fees or not?

I myself am actually on the fence. When I was younger I was against Tuition Fees but as I got older the more pros I saw in it... Pros such as incentives to do well and get a job, more financed Universities and less people joining Uni just for 'fun'.

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Other links on the subject

If you want to kill social mobility and general education, introduce tuition fees.

[Player Twelve]

What would a conservative party in Sweden want then? It's my understanding that even most right-wing parties in Europe are pretty socialist.

Less government intervention in the market, restriction on abortion, less worker rights, less LGBT rights, less welfare, holds the nuclear family as the ideal family composition, less immigration etc.

Besides, right-wing is more than conservatives, it's liberals(What you'd call libertarian in usa), liberal conservatives, nationalists, christian democrats, nazis etc.

[RaoBurning]

Never mind, question answered previously.

[Deleted]

As someone from a rather low-income family who holds a bachelor's degree and got employed due to it i'm against tuition fees.

I'm currently paying one to also obtain a master's degree. But it's not monstrous like the ones they have in the US (It's about 3.2k a year).