Afrocentrism is just as misguided as any other kind of ethno-nationalism.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

So the Afrocentrists have been getting increased air time of late because of the release of Black Panther. Now, please don't misunderstand me. I've not seen the movie, and have no opinion on it as a film. I enjoy the MCU so will probably watch it on BlueRay once I catch up with Thor and Guardians (I'm pretty far behind). That being said, some of the internet ravings surrounding the film are beyond ludicrous. I've nothing against idealistic escapism. If we want to treat Wakanda as a Camelot for black people, then fine, have at it. Just so long as you keep in mind fantasy, is fantasy, and shouldn't drive your ambitions and interactions with others in the real world. I'll deconstruct some of the ideas being spouted in connection with the film.

1. Wakanda is what Africa would have been if European colonization hadn't happened.

Guy's, if Africa had been like Wakanda, at least in terms of technological advancement, colonization wouldn't have happened. Europeans wouldn't have had the power to do it. It's just that simple.

2. Africa remains poor and violent because of the remaining after-effects of colonization.

Africa was poor, technologically backward, and violent before, during, and after European colonization. In fact, the areas that were most heavily colonized, and remained colonized the longest, are the richest and most socially stable places in Africa. Ethiopia, which was never colonized, had slavery until 1942 when it was abolished under pressure from the Western Allies in the aftermath of WWII.

3. All that is required for black people to prosper is for them to be socially isolated from the rest of the world and left to their own devices.

This is the worst claim of all, because predictably the white ethno-nationalists are completely on board with it, and it's the most easily debunked. The main reason Africa was so technologically backward, seriously people, in many places they were barely past the neolithic era as recently as the late 1800s, is precisely because the difficult geography of Africa isolated their people from trade with the rest of the world. The vikings, hardly characterized as a great European civilization, had better weapons than the Zulus 1000 years before the British were stacking their bodies like firewood.

European expansion, especially that of the Anglo-Saxons, didn't happen because they were always an advanced or powerful people. Prior to 500 years ago, Northwest Europe was an insignificant backwater on the edge of the Eurasian landmass filled with squabbling tribes more preoccupied with killing each-other than just about anything else. That all changed when those people embraced trade with the greater world, organized themselves into coherent nation states, and started amassing the resources required to support a population boom. The rest is history.

You don't even need to go deep into history to see that the claim of economic isolationism is the path to prosperity is farcical. Look at the difference between Feudal and post-Meiji Japan, China and the rest of Southeast Asia before free trade compared to now, and North vs. South Korea. The number one reason the United States is so prosperous is because we keep attracting and bringing in new blood that is a self-selected group of ambitious, creative, driven and risk-taking individuals, and we're promiscuous with regards to with whom we'll do business.

I'll finish with this point. Afrocentrists, or Black ethno-nationalists as we should call them, are abandoning their real legacy in favor of a fantasy. Black Americans are a part of the cultural fabric of this country. They have affected our art, language, music, food, clothing and participated in the big moments of our history. Blacks have fought bravely in our armies since the Revolution, and produced great philosophers and statesmen such as Frederick Douglas, Martin Luther King, and Clarence Thomas to name just a few. The US is the first western country to have a black man as the head of state. Blacks are more free, have more opportunity, and are more prosperous here than in any country on earth. That is a far greater legacy for them to latch on to than a fictitious African Camelot.

[Antiganon]

This thread is going places.

I agree with your basic premise, that the difficult geography of Africa was more impactful in the (comparative lack of) development of societal infrastructure, and that an ethno-state is not desirable.

Those on the left will call you an overt racist.

Those on the right will appropriate your argument and make you look like an overt racist.

This thread will be locked for forbidden topics.

[Elegiac]

I mean, this would be novel if it weren't for the hundreds of other internet hot takes written by people who saw Black Panther and got triggered.

[Deleted]

Y'know what I am tired of people banging on race... It's unhealthy

[Rhamses]

cement, colonization wouldn't have happened. Europeans wouldn't have had the power to do it. It's just that simple.

2. Africa remains poor and violent because of the remaining after-effects of colonization.

Africa was poor, technologically backward, and violent before, during, and after European colonization. In fact, the areas that were most heavily colonized, and remained colonized the longest, are the richest and most socially stable places in Africa. Ethiopia, which was never colonized, had slavery until 1942 when it was abolished under pressure from the Western Allies in the aftermath of WWII.

Yeah, that's categorically false. There were several extremely wealthy, stable, and technologically advanced African kingdoms before European colonization. Egypt, Kush, Mali, Ghanan, Songhai, Kanem-Bornu, and the Swahili City-states just to name a few.

[Elegiac]

Yeah, that's categorically false. There were several extremely wealthy, stable, and technologically advanced African kingdoms before European colonization. Egypt, Kush, Mali, Ghanan, Songhai, Kanem-Bornu, and the Swahili City-states just to name a few.

It's also downplaying the highly complex, tending towards detrimental, and still present impact of colonialism on Africa.

But hey, what else is new for the right wing.

[Mifuyne]

What if's don't matter.

[Unholyground]

All humans come from Africa!

[Rhamses]

It's also downplaying the highly complex, tending towards detrimental, and still present impact of colonialism on Africa.

But hey, what else is new for the right wing.

The ignorance surrounding the continent still amazes me. It's not like there isn't any scholarship about the history of Africa from Greek, Arab, and African sources. Hell, where do people think the Umayyads came from when they conquered Spain? Mars?

[Gurluas]

Yeah, that's categorically false. There were several extremely wealthy, stable, and technologically advanced African kingdoms before European colonization. Egypt, Kush, Mali, Ghanan, Songhai, Kanem-Bornu, and the Swahili City-states just to name a few.

Most of those weren't black people, or were the result of Islamic colonization/assimilation.
Africa has mostly been a hotbed of inter-tribe feuds, slavery and war for millenia.

It has nothing to do with race, it's the political situation and environment in those areas that stagnated.

[GennGreymane]

Africa by Toto is an international treasure. I dont understand the dislike of Africa.

[Rhamses]

Most of those weren't black people, or were the result of Islamic colonization/assimilation.
Africa has mostly been a hotbed of inter-tribe feuds, slavery and war for millenia.

It has nothing to do with race, it's the political situation and environment in those areas that stagnated.

He didn't say "Black", he said Africa as a whole.

But just FYI, the majority of those ARE sub-Saharan African kingdoms. It's also ridiculous to say that sub-Saharan Africans aren't allowed to advance through a unifying force like Islam, but I'm sure you have no issue with Europe developing under Christianity which didn't originate on the European continent.

Hilarious you say its not about race, and then place a racial qualifier on the development of an entire continent.

[Deleted]

So the Afrocentrists have been getting increased air time of late because of the release of Black Panther.

Well, that proves people shouldn't watch it, since it's anti-white.

[PC2]

Yeah, that's categorically false. There were several extremely wealthy, stable, and technologically advanced African kingdoms before European colonization. Egypt, Kush, Mali, Ghanan, Songhai, Kanem-Bornu, and the Swahili City-states just to name a few.

None of them were stable and technologically advanced, none of them were on the verge of a scientific and industrial revolution. There were wealthy kingdoms in Africa but their knowledge of institutions was entirely primitive even before colonialism.

[Gurluas]

He didn't say "Black", he said Africa as a whole.

But just FYI, the majority of those ARE sub-Saharan African. It's also ridiculous to say that sub-Saharan Africans aren't allowed to advance through a unifying force like Islam, but I'm sure you have no issue with Europe developing under Christianity which didn't originate on the European continent.

Hilarious you say its not about race, and then place a racial qualifier on the development of an entire continent.

Christianity hurt Europe more than it helped. I'm not a hypocrite, I dislike all Abrahamic religions equally.

[Deleted]

This was really informative. Thank you I enjoyed this post.

But yeah, inb4 politics extremists come and ruin it.

[Rhamses]

None of them were stable and technologically advanced, none of them were on the verge of a scientific and industrial revolution. There were wealthy kingdoms in Africa but their knowledge of institutions was entirely primitive even before colonialism.

Uh, the Kanem Bornu empire lasted for almost 1000 years.

Also Timbuktu and Alexandria were considered major learning centers during the middle ages.

Interesting that you consider the industrial revolution as the standard of scientific achievement since no one was on the verge of one until after the 1600s, and only Britain achieved it in the late 18th century through a series of accidents.

[Ealyssa]

The new and fresh daily american race thread.

Saw it 27178564 times here, boooooooring. Can't you just stop giving a fuck about what color the skin of your neighbour is ? Sounds pretty retarded in 2018.

[Deleted]

1. Wakanda is what Africa would have been if European colonization hadn't happened.

Ethiopia was never colonized, was already christian. If one follows their logic then Ethiopia would be where Wakanda is in movie.

But this is Ethiopia...

[Elegiac]

None of them were stable and technologically advanced, none of them were on the verge of a scientific and industrial revolution. There were wealthy kingdoms in Africa but their knowledge of institutions was entirely primitive even before colonialism.

This is setting an arbitrary modern standard that is true of no polity that existed prior to the Industrial Revolution.