Afrocentrism is just as misguided as any other kind of ethno-nationalism.

[Elegiac]

Are you referring to innate intelligence? My ancestor from 10000 years ago may have about the same innate intelligence as I do, but that is not knowledge.

No, it isn't; nor is it an argument, since ancient peoples were still highly knowledgeable - just not in fields that -you- happen to deem important.

Let's just call it what it is, you're equating social development with technological development.

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It's a damn movie, which granted maybe it does have influence and art can do that, but instead of making it about racism and the past, perhaps it could simply be a springboard into something more positive.

I'm going to bring this line up because it strikes very close to the heart of the issue, namely in how selective the OP's complaint is; why are people complaining about a depiction of a fictional technologically advanced African nation, when there are absolutely no complaints about a depiction of a fictional technologically advanced European nation - like, say, Atlantis.

Couldn't possibly be due to a detrimental social narrative of Africa being inherently backwards and primitive, could it.

[PC2]

No, it isn't; nor is it an argument, since ancient peoples were still highly knowledgeable - just not in fields that -you- happen to deem important.

Let's just call it what it is, you're equating social development with technological development.

Ancient people from 10k years ago were not generally knowledgeable, they were more knowledgeable than current people regarding hunting/gathering/scavenging techniques. But their knowledge of how the world works was overall extremely primitive compared to the modern person.

[McFuu]

This is why we can't have nice things.

Seriously, Black Panther is becoming one of my favorite movies just because of how divisive it is. And I haven't seen it yet.

Get a grip people. It's just a movie, the only thing it says about reality is how worked up people get over it. All these people are either complaining because omg black movie, this isn't real. Yeah no shit, it's a Marvel movie. And then you have the other side who are literally saying "look what Africa can do!", Seriously no, it's a movie.
Coming to America is more representative of real life than this.

People need to get it together, man I just watched Thor, why aren't we using bifrost to travel? This is what people are doing with this movie, it's fiction. Not remotely real life.
The amount of glorification for a fictitious world makes me think a lot more people have mental health issues than one would assume.

[Deleted]

I like this. A movie comes out, and supposedly black people take some pride in it, and what could maybe have been, fantasy etc. etc.. In general, just something cool to relate to.

Better take them down a peg, can't have uppity negros running around!

[Doctor Amadeus]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

Yep, I agree, with most of this, I think the whole idea of superior is overrated and it's a paradigm that has shifted over the years. I am not a firm believer of the survival of the most fit, or at least not in the way it gets romanticised.

It's very possibly Organism A, destroys Organism B, and it's very likely that Organism A is killed off by Organism C, where as Organism B would have flourished against that same Organism C.

This has happened, and I believe it often does because nature in general often has a different plan if any than those organism it plays host too.

The point is Nature very rarely allows anything to go too far one way or another without some way of balancing things out. I say it is very likely one civilization falling, while another's rise is no more significant than the tides that flow in the morning, vs the day or vs the evening.

Now life or organisms do what they want to, but I am not 100% sure there is a purpose either way


But need is the mother of all invention, so to that end is what I meant by my last reply in terms environments having to do with how people developed.

[Independent voter]

So you're saying there's people who don't like African Americans OP?

Surprising if true.

[McFuu]

Ancient people from 10k years ago were not generally knowledgeable, they were more knowledgeable than current people regarding hunting/gathering/scavenging techniques. But their knowledge of how the world works was overall extremely primitive compared to the modern person.

To ancient people the world extended to the first impassable geographic feature, and they knew everything of their world. They were just as knowledgeable as we were, they just lived in a different world than you do.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Seriously, Black Panther is becoming one of my favorite movies just because of how divisive it is. And I haven't seen it yet.

Get a grip people. It's just a movie, the only thing it says about reality is how worked up people get over it. All these people are either complaining because omg black movie, this isn't real. Yeah no shit, it's a Marvel movie. And then you have the other side who are literally saying "look what Africa can do!", Seriously no, it's a movie.
Coming to America is more representative of real life than this.

People need to get it together, man I just watched Thor, why aren't we using bifrost to travel? This is what people are doing with this movie, it's fiction. Not remotely real life.
The amount of glorification for a fictitious world makes me think a lot more people have mental health issues than one would assume.

I don't understand the bold part, but yeah I agree with what you are saying and finding it amusing within reason, all up until people want start having conversations like you said how come we don't use bifrost to travel.

Which in and of itself would be a great question from a kid, some of these people are like in their 20's and 30's LOL!

[Elegiac]

Ancient people from 10k years ago were not generally knowledgeable, they were more knowledgeable than current people regarding hunting/gathering/scavenging techniques. But their knowledge of how the world works was overall extremely primitive compared to the modern person.

Pot, kettle.

Also, this has absolutely no bearing on whether or not a society is considered 'civilized'. You keep claiming it's 'institutional knowledge' when every civilization has this.

Just be honest and admit you're talking about literacy.

[Techno-Druid]

Bull.

Europe was a thick huge forest during antiquity n the early middle ages, by clearing it people prospered.

Black Africans didn't develop because they didn't face harsh weather conditions

Those who left Africa had to adapt, those who failed died like flies...only the cunning survived, and once mastering the environment had aquired the skill sets to create civilization.

A harsh climate in Africa is Egypt, practically everyone lives along the Nile. They had to adapt and learn how to make the most of the environment and the river to prosper.


Black Africa however...is green, endless Summer, you loose ur food source? No problem, just walk a little n start to pick whatever you want...

Africans didn't develop because they weren't spurred, they became lethargic


while the outside world contested with each other for resources which led them to create invention upon invention..

You do realize that most equatorial regions have a wet and a dry season, right? It's not just a tropical Garden of Eden 24/7.

This makes it even more silly when you realize that much of the world's crops we're domesticated in tropical regions of the world. Watermelon, black eyed-peas, yams, oil palms, kola but (the ingredient in Coca-Cola), okra and coffee were all domesticated in Sub-Saharan Africa. Cattle, sheep, goats, chickens and guinea fowl were all present in Sub-Saharan Africa as well.

[Jinpachi]

So true, gotta listen to it now.

____

Africa is a massive continent and had civilizations on different levels of technological and social advancement. No one can tell what would have happened if colonization never occurred and no one can really tell what would happen if colonial powers stopped messing around down there (or being supplanted by China's desire to mold Africa into its economic periphery since the US has deprived it of its natural periphery). Unless you know, some of you are precognitive, if so more power to you!

I'm also confused at what relation African Americans have to Africa, I thought most of them are from the Caribbean. Isolationism and ethno-nationalism though certainly aren't the best ideologies to pick to develop a cultural identity.

I thought the caribbeans were populated from the slave trade. could be wrong, but i dont think any were indigenous

[Rukario]

Sometimes i feel like what Africa lacked was a strong ruler, one that could have united most of it's people into a great nation instead of 10000 warring tribes.

As for the Black Panther movie, yes Wakanda was great...it's people were also extremely xenophobic.

[Tiwack]

Yes and we've got bigger fish to fry.. unless you want to provide people with another bullshit reason to murder each other over an idiotic concept.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I'm going to bring this line up because it strikes very close to the heart of the issue, namely in how selective the OP's complaint is; why are people complaining about a depiction of a fictional technologically advanced African nation, when there are absolutely no complaints about a depiction of a fictional technologically advanced European nation - like, say, Atlantis.

Couldn't possibly be due to a detrimental social narrative of Africa being inherently backwards and primitive, could it.

I think it's that, but I also think because it's a movie and it's being promoted so heavily and the climate we are in politically it is bound to catch a lot of drama receptions, just like it did for GhostBusters 3, or SW 7 and now 8.

It flies in the face of the way things ought to be for others as divine truth, and for others, it is unwitting confirmation that this is exactly what's going on in real life. Same thing happened with LOTR's.

People lose their minds but you are correct about the some people who dog this movie are the same ones who will go on YouTube and watch nonsense about Aryan Space Aliens from Atlantis.

[Rhamses]

Sometimes i feel like what Africa lacked was a strong ruler, one that could have united most of it's people into a great nation instead of 10000 warring tribes.

As for the Black Panther movie, yes Wakanda was great...it's people were also extremely xenophobic.

LoL! Africa has always been a continent filled with very different people. It's the second largest continent in the world. I don't know why people think a single people could take over the entire continent and unify it into an empire.

Strong rulers existed in various parts of the continent throughout the centuries just like anywhere else.

[PC2]

Pot, kettle.

Also, this has absolutely no bearing on whether or not a society is considered 'civilized'. You keep claiming it's 'institutional knowledge' when every civilization has this.

Just be honest and admit you're talking about literacy.

Societies don't all have the same level of institutional knowledge, differences causes some to be better or worse. But i'm sure in your world of equal relativism, Somalia and Afghanistan have knowledge that is just as good as any other society.

[McFuu]

I don't understand the bold part, but yeah I agree with what you are saying and finding it amusing within reason, all up until people want start having conversations like you said how come we don't use bifrost to travel.

Which in and of itself would be a great question from a kid, some of these people are like in their 20's and 30's LOL!

I love the way the movie says more about the person who watches it, as opposed to actually saying anything in the movie.
It's like Get Out, where the movie is far more mundane than people think going into it. You see the promotional pieces for it, going in thinking it's a movie about racism, but it isn't, the only racism in the movie is actually by the people who watch it, because you assumed you knew what the movie was about.
Except Get Out does this on purpose, and Black Panther simply is a black super hero movie which get an unhealthy amount of attention for an all black cast and crew. Granted the way the movie was promoted pushed it in this direction, but that doesn't stop the idolatry or vitirol from being disturbing.

[Techno-Druid]

I thought the caribbeans were populated from the slave trade. could be wrong, but i dont think any were indigenous

The Caribbean was inhabited by the Carib, Arawak and Taino people.

[Deleted]

Oh, I don't know. The fact you think you can just pick food anywhere in African countries. If that was true, why is there so much starvation there?

Because my point was that civilization is a result of whip and carrot. If you only have whip, like those deserts you think of, there's no progress without carrot.
Egypt has its carrot, the great Nile river and the banks that over-flow creates one of the most fertile lands on the planet. Problem with most of africa, is they have lots of carrot for free..so they aren't spurred unlike those africans that left for other continents.

Look at ancient egypt, it follows the nile.

egypt now at night, the lights follow the river. Without it, ancient egypt wouldn't have happened n the country would have been as unremarkable as the rest of africa.


It's all balance of carrot n whip...

look at eskimos, lots of whip, barely any carrot, on the other hand the mongols had carrot, the horse and the vast grasslands that were a highway from mongolia all the way to eastern europe. The environment places conditions that people react upon..

Ur swede, ur ancestors faced harsh winters but u had the seas and plentiful rivers n lakes, and unlike the eskimos had plentiful of lumber which resulted in fishing communities which led to viking age..


I suspect entire humanity will perhaps end up in lethargy if the robot revolution goes through...

[Elegiac]

Societies don't all have the same level of institutional knowledge, differences causes some to be better or worse. But i'm sure in your world of equal relativism, Somalia and Afghanistan have knowledge that is just as good as any other society.

That you think comparison between societies is done in order to establish how 'good' X is versus Y is highly amusing. And also divorced from any serious historical analysis.