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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Imbalanced View Post
    Well to be fair the last 2 bosses in Antorus are much harder than anything in Nighthold or Seige
    Arguably Paragon of the Klaxxi 25 man was on par with both Aggramar and Argus and Elisande and Gul'dan prenerf were certainly on par with Aggramar and Argus.

  2. #122
    Deleted
    Sometimes, less means more. Aslong as it leads to a more enjoyable experience, i donlt really care.

    Though i do think it's time for one more row of talents. Just toss those legendary effects in there and jobs done.

  3. #123
    I definitely want more of the cool passives to be baseline come the next expansion, like the rogue fall damage thing you mentioned. I mainly don't want to feel like once I give up my artifact weapon I give up abilities that enhanced the class and made it fun. IE one of my favorite things about my destro lock is how when I unload everything at once using the portals and my abilities it looks like I'm showering my enemies with an elaborate fireworks show. I love that to death, and playing destro won't be the same if that's removed.

    Though some seem like they'll be inevitable, like I will sorely miss talking to my shadow priest's knaifu.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    With no more artifact weapons, their transmogs are gone
    Incorrect. Blizzard stated that artifact skins will be usable going forward. They at least specified the challenge and raid questline skins, so I assume every color variant will unlock in our wardrobes.
    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)
    this thread is a waste of internet

  5. #125
    Here is what alpha tells us so far:

    Stuff is broken
    They want to change some specs
    Warlocks get shiny new spell animations

    Here is what alpha does NOT tell us:

    What the game will be like
    what specifically we gain with azerite armor
    literally anything else

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    i fear that every mail, leather, plate and cloth wearer will look the same
    don't worry I hear a few patches down the line Blizzard is going to make every class and race look the same as a cardboard cutout and we will only have one button to push all in the name of making it easier for chimpanzees to play because it's all to push the new free to play smartphone/tablet game were you gotta throw millions of real money into the cash shop if you want to have a different colored class armor. DON'T CHA KNOW!?

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by donmarker View Post
    You'd know if you'd bothered to read the post but I guess dem wurds 2 hard amiright.
    They're gutting an already gutted game. I'm guessing to make it playable with a four button gamepad.
    I read the whole post, it makes no sense, you can't go on for 14 years with the same game without removing and rebalancing stuff.

    But I guess that you aren't playing the game if you think that it can be played with a gamepad, while some specs have up to 8 buttons just for the base rotation.

  8. #128
    Deleted
    I was hoping we would loose AP, TF and M+, but no luck.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by myhv View Post
    I was hoping we would loose AP, TF and M+, but no luck.
    What's wrong with M+?

  10. #130
    20+ Passives that changed the way we play the class.

    I like how this changes my playstyle "Increases Shadow Damage by 1%". Thats so exciting and just makes my rotation change completely.

  11. #131
    This all comes down to wether or not they are anywhere near finished with the heart of Azeroth.
    The new system does fix the ancient "what the fuck do all these buttons do?" problem, WoW had for a long time. It gives all classes a basic rotation, that you will be familiar with, no matter when you played last, and then gives you some toys to play with during the current expansion. If you come back in 6 years, you dont need to know anything about the legions spells, the BFA spells or the VODIDOOM spells. You can just log onto your old character and see the 6 or so buttons you know how to use. So classes looking bare bones right now, because they lost all the Legion fluff, isnt really a bad thing.

    And since they moved away from giving your all your new buttons during leveling, the heart doesnt even have to be as detailed as fully empored artifacts are right now. We will probably get 2-3 more ranks during the patches. So it would be enough for the Heart to be as interesting as Artifacts were when Legion released. Which they currently arent. So hopefulyl that changes when Beta is out.

    As to tier sets and legendaries: I hope there will still be procs and passive effects on other gear, like trinkets and weapons. If there is not, I can see gear becoming just plain more boring during BFA. The removal of "random world drop" awesome effects and "forced to wear 6 of these" tier sets is definetely a good thing, but it if the heart is the only place, where you have to do more than looking at the itemlvl number, I can see that becoming a problem.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  12. #132
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    What's wrong with M+?
    I dislike content where difficulty is arbitrary achieved by introducing timers and "dumb" scaling. It is also the only repeatable way to farm high end gear in the game, single-handedly pushing TF procs from the realm of a "nice bonus" in to expected territory.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    If we go ahead and ignore the stat squish, which is something that comes down to personal taste since its just numbers:


    - We lose Tiersets. While they tended to lock down slots in armor, they are still more interesting than "stamina crit and hast" on a slot.
    I like this change. And besides we technically won't since the head shoulders and chest pieces will give us new bonuses every tier set, so it's sort of same thing. We'll still have to change the meta every tier set.

    - We lose legendaries which where a nice way to customize classes. Especially in mythic+ you find yourself often switching between them for different situations. The method of acquiring these obviously sucked, but the idea itself was really really good. They do implement a few as talents, but thats it.
    This is THE BEST CHANGE in BfA. Legendary system in Legion is by far my least favorite aspect of it. It's waaaaaay too RNG and separated the haves from the have-nots very noticably during the first half of the expansion. It also punished those who were altoholics. It's a shit system and glad it's gone.
    - Artifact weapons are gone, and with them a million passives (remember, WoD had passives as well while you leveled up). This time around, there won't be any passives from leveling, and there wont be any passives from artifact weapons.
    We have a new artifact weapon in the form of the neck piece now. I think it's an improved system because we can finally choose what weapons to equip and have more freedom on transmogging them. Overall, good change.

    - We trade in 20+ passives that completely changed how a class worked or had nice small effects for THREE effects from our Azerite "tierset".
    Which makes it a lot easier to class balance...

    - We lose effects such as execute for Assa Rogues, Full Moon for owls, fall damage immunity for rogues, purgatory-lite for Fury warriors, sprint on leap for arms warriors, Ebonbolt for mages, the list goes on forever. One wonders how an elemental shaman will ever be able to do DPS without his legendary boots and gloves.
    Way too early in Alpha to know for sure. For all we know, those might be returning in azerite necklace form.
    - Visual diversity will be gone. With no more artifact weapons, their transmogs are gone (old ones stay, obviously.) and with the removal of tiersets, i fear that every mail, leather, plate and cloth wearer will look the same, akin to Trial of Crusader tiersets.
    WRONG! If anything we'll have MORE diversity from being able to choose which weap we can use. ALL of our old Legion weaps will still be available via transmog. So if anything we're getting MORE choices.


    - No level 120 talents, no "new" talents, no active effect from the azerite neck itself, no new spells for any class, nothing.
    Don't need new talents when the neck, head/shoulders/chest will be giving us a bunch of new ones.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    If we go ahead and ignore the stat squish, which is something that comes down to personal taste since its just numbers:

    - We lose Tiersets. While they tended to lock down slots in armor, they are still more interesting than "stamina crit and hast" on a slot.
    As long as items will have interesting effects (like Kara/Seat), then this is a huge QoL improvement. Sick of having 4+ slots locked to tier every raid. Was even worse in Legion with Legendaries that took up slots the entire expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    - We lose legendaries which where a nice way to customize classes. Especially in mythic+ you find yourself often switching between them for different situations. The method of acquiring these obviously sucked, but the idea itself was really really good. They do implement a few as talents, but thats it.
    If by "customize" you mean "pick the two objectively best legendaries" then sure. Legendaries were awful, even when you had them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    - Artifact weapons are gone, and with them a million passives (remember, WoD had passives as well while you leveled up). This time around, there won't be any passives from leveling, and there wont be any passives from artifact weapons.
    Passives should all be baked into the toolkit, also using the same weapon the entire expansion was annoying. We got SO few weapon mogs (outside of the artifact appearances).

    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    - We trade in 20+ passives that completely changed how a class worked or had nice small effects for THREE effects from our Azerite "tierset".
    See above. Baked in or made into choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    - We lose effects such as execute for Assa Rogues, Full Moon for owls, fall damage immunity for rogues, purgatory-lite for Fury warriors, sprint on leap for arms warriors, Ebonbolt for mages, the list goes on forever. One wonders how an elemental shaman will ever be able to do DPS without his legendary boots and gloves.
    Full Moon was shit anyways and stuff like fall damage immunity can still be rolled into the spec. This is a moot point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    - Visual diversity will be gone. With no more artifact weapons, their transmogs are gone (old ones stay, obviously.) and with the removal of tiersets, i fear that every mail, leather, plate and cloth wearer will look the same, akin to Trial of Crusader tiersets.
    Except transmog still exists so that doesn't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    - Many classes class identity will suffer greatly from this. They feel incomplete and i HIGHLY doubt that 3 traits can change that.
    Moonkin right now feels extremely incomplete. Mistweaver also feels incomplete. What the fuck is your point here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    - No level 120 talents, no "new" talents, no active effect from the azerite neck itself, no new spells for any class, nothing.
    Literally half of Moonkin's talents right now are trap/dead talents. They've already stated that they plan to rectify any dead talents (they said this prior to the alpha/beta, sorry don't remember the source), and they also plan to fix the "ST vs AoE" talents so you actually have some level of choice.

    Honestly, literally every one of your points have been moot or just seem like whining for the sake of whining.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Inukashi View Post
    Losing stuff isn't always bad.

    Massives changes are good, even if the changes itself may be bad.

    Just think WoW would always be the same. Take your favourite talent tree system. Now imagine you would have this system since the very beginning with only minor tweaks every addon. It would be totally boring. Just Imagine we would have artifactweapons since classic. How interesting would the next addon be? “So what did Druid healers get this time? Another stick with leaves?“

    I'm happy with a new system every addon, even if the new system might not be as good as the old one sometimes.
    Precisely this. Also if I remember correctly people said this exact same thing about both WoD and Legion, even satirically referring to them as un-expansions.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  16. #136
    Deleted
    A whole expansion of moaning about legos and artifact grinding, now the moaning about them being removed starts. God this fanbase...

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    If we go ahead and ignore the stat squish, which is something that comes down to personal taste since its just numbers:


    - We lose Tiersets. While they tended to lock down slots in armor, they are still more interesting than "stamina crit and hast" on a slot.

    - We lose legendaries which where a nice way to customize classes. Especially in mythic+ you find yourself often switching between them for different situations. The method of acquiring these obviously sucked, but the idea itself was really really good. They do implement a few as talents, but thats it.

    - Artifact weapons are gone, and with them a million passives (remember, WoD had passives as well while you leveled up). This time around, there won't be any passives from leveling, and there wont be any passives from artifact weapons.

    - We trade in 20+ passives that completely changed how a class worked or had nice small effects for THREE effects from our Azerite "tierset".



    - We lose effects such as execute for Assa Rogues, Full Moon for owls, fall damage immunity for rogues, purgatory-lite for Fury warriors, sprint on leap for arms warriors, Ebonbolt for mages, the list goes on forever. One wonders how an elemental shaman will ever be able to do DPS without his legendary boots and gloves.

    - Visual diversity will be gone. With no more artifact weapons, their transmogs are gone (old ones stay, obviously.) and with the removal of tiersets, i fear that every mail, leather, plate and cloth wearer will look the same, akin to Trial of Crusader tiersets.

    - Many classes class identity will suffer greatly from this. They feel incomplete and i HIGHLY doubt that 3 traits can change that.

    - No level 120 talents, no "new" talents, no active effect from the azerite neck itself, no new spells for any class, nothing.
    It is looking real bad. Even MOBAs are looking to have more depth than BFA. Is BFA worthy of even being called an expansion when characters stopped progressing back in WoD?

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    If we go ahead and ignore the stat squish, which is something that comes down to personal taste since its just numbers:


    - We lose Tiersets. While they tended to lock down slots in armor, they are still more interesting than "stamina crit and hast" on a slot.

    - We lose legendaries which where a nice way to customize classes. Especially in mythic+ you find yourself often switching between them for different situations. The method of acquiring these obviously sucked, but the idea itself was really really good. They do implement a few as talents, but thats it.

    - Artifact weapons are gone, and with them a million passives (remember, WoD had passives as well while you leveled up). This time around, there won't be any passives from leveling, and there wont be any passives from artifact weapons.

    - We trade in 20+ passives that completely changed how a class worked or had nice small effects for THREE effects from our Azerite "tierset".



    - We lose effects such as execute for Assa Rogues, Full Moon for owls, fall damage immunity for rogues, purgatory-lite for Fury warriors, sprint on leap for arms warriors, Ebonbolt for mages, the list goes on forever. One wonders how an elemental shaman will ever be able to do DPS without his legendary boots and gloves.

    - Visual diversity will be gone. With no more artifact weapons, their transmogs are gone (old ones stay, obviously.) and with the removal of tiersets, i fear that every mail, leather, plate and cloth wearer will look the same, akin to Trial of Crusader tiersets.

    - Many classes class identity will suffer greatly from this. They feel incomplete and i HIGHLY doubt that 3 traits can change that.

    - No level 120 talents, no "new" talents, no active effect from the azerite neck itself, no new spells for any class, nothing.
    as a ww monk im getting like 5 new talents only 1 of which is from the artifact

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by myhv View Post
    I dislike content where difficulty is arbitrary achieved by introducing timers and "dumb" scaling. It is also the only repeatable way to farm high end gear in the game, single-handedly pushing TF procs from the realm of a "nice bonus" in to expected territory.
    Well, I can't disagree with that.

    The pros outweigh the cons though; I can run them with a group of close friends rather than guild recruits I don't even know, I'm not stuck in the same instance for hours, more variety, no planning required just pick-up and play, etc.

    When mythic raids will disappear and they will, I hope blizzard will pour all their development resources into making mythic raid quality dungeon bosses!
    Last edited by nocturnus; 2018-02-20 at 10:18 AM.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    First, you constantly changed out legendaries. A hunter as example constantly switches between them in m+, same with warlocks.

    Secondly, do you think the removal of tiersets changes anything? You get your BiS stat item and thats never gonna be replaced. But you lose set boni, and in return receive a stat stick that locks down the slot just as much because of its stats.
    Set bonus will be part of azerite gear effectively.

    Legendaries being gone is something people overwhelmingly wanted, they were complained and bullshited to death. You are the minority.

    As for Artifact, it had only several truly game-changing or even visible abilities per spec, you can have the same with azerite gear. Effectively most of the non-gold traits were just simple +%, or -X cd or bland stuff like that will just get rolled into a spec if needed.

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