Why putting Draenor Orcs on the Alliance is a very bad idea

[Maldarious]

We still haven't confirmed whether the orcs will be AU or MU though. Yes Ion said "Draenor orcs", but the datamined information points to Mag'har. I am thinking it will be the Mag'har.

I think I am getting on the boat of people who will complain if they tell us AU Dreanor Orcs. That chapter is closed and should be off limits to us. Timeline AU crap bothers me.

[Niwes]

The entire basis of the "Orcs on Alliance" argument is that Saurfang, an orc, says he wants to speaks with Anduin instead of running away.

That's it.

yep. its scary how many ppl make shit out of nothing.

[Ithekro]

The potential bombshell at Blizzcon could be epic.

[Shakou]

3 things:

#1 Mag'har of Outland are already part of the Horde.

#2 If AU Draenor had nothing to do with our timeline and was over and done then Legion wouldn't have even happened. So you can just pretend this allied race isn't AU Draenor Orcs cuz it pretty definitely will be.

#3 The 2nd part is definitely true because they datamined part of the map for a scenario we can pretty safely assume is for getting this allied race, and it's frickin Gorgrond, a place that doesn't even exist in Outland.

[Trassk]

The entire basis of the "Orcs on Alliance" argument is that Saurfang, an orc, says he wants to speaks with Anduin instead of running away.

That's it.

Pretty much, since saurfang values honor and ending conflict, or just understanding his enemy, like thrall did.

But of course some memed him in alliance armor and now every chode on wow forums thinks its a sign.

[Shakou]

Taliesin's tinfoil-hat theory video, basically: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvcdQqt_-bI&t=673s

You didn't watch that very closely, or you aren't that familiar with their videos: they do commentary on the latest wow news based around what people on WOW forums have to say about it.

He says very loud and clearly toward the end of this video that this is an outlandish theory with no chance of being true.

But in typical WOW forum fashion people misunderstanding everything lol.

[Serenais]

There are sort-of Alliance-alligned orcs in AU Shadowmoon Valley, however, they won't be playable, ever, for multiple reasons.
1) They are incredibly low in number. So low that making High Elves (actual, still, High Elves that never became either Blood or Void) would become viable based on their number alone, to put that in perspective.
2) It is made abundantly clear that even if the Alliance leadership could stomach a rogue orc faction siding with them, actual Alliance citizens would very likely not. Given that the subgroup of AU Shadowmoon Valley orcs have next to no infrastructure of their own, that would basically make them have even less of their own content than the current allied races.
3) The above point would also effectively make their inclusion purely cosmetic. There could be a "singular NPC hero" somewhere from them, but they simply wouldn't be of any effect other than "yes, you can now play orcs on the Alliance".
4) Let's face it. Blizzard is not bringing back in anything that was introduced in WoD. Gul'dan was an exception, and that was simply because the last patch of WoD was effectively a build up to Legion. If the inverse were true, we'd see draenor orcs and draenei in Legion (especially after Yrel's "If you ever need us, we will be here").

There is no chance that any other orc faction would get anywhere near the Alliance except for necessary temporary cooperation in case of mutual interest.

In my opinion, if Saurfang is going to do anything regarding his audience with Anduin besides buying the Horde team time, it's going to be an attempt to negotiate some sort of orc neutrality in the war between the Alliance and the Horde. He is very likely aware that after Siege of Orgrimmar - and especially since Sylvanas became Warchief - the orcs are both in no position to wage war on anyone, and are currently playing the second fiddle in the Horde they were instrumental in setting up. Last thing they need right now is to bleed out for Sylvanas' plan for Kalimdor. I wouldn't be surprised if many of them shared Saurfang's view on Sylvanas' take on honor and Horde in general.

[Wildspirit]

lol this theory about Saurfang switching sides and bringing Draenor Orcs to alliance is one of the stupidest thing I've ever heard of in all my WoW player time (I've been playing on & off since launch...)

Saurfang is one of the most loyal character in wow history. He has stuck through stick and stones for the horde over the years and even if he disagrees with Sylvanas, he's not about to leave and betray his kin like that. How can people think that is beyond me.

Just because he's going to try and speak to Anduin doesn't make him a turn coat. As some people have said, he maybe trying to buy time and / or make some sort of deal for the Horde once we get rid of Sylvanas and her crazy plans.

Bringing Draenor Orcs into the HORDE would actually make much more sense than people think. It would really help in getting rid of Sylvanas by overpowering her and forcing her to abdict her warchief title for someone more reasonable and wise.

Also, never forget that the Alliance has a very "racist" PoV in general, and especially against Orcs in general. Humans would never be able to make the difference between Orcs and ... well Orcs. Having Orcs join the Alliance would create such a turmoil that leaders of the Alliance would have FAR more problems to deal with than the war going on with the horde.

Yep, Blizzard has made some heavy mistakes in the past with their lore, but I can't imagine them crossing this line.

I'm not even sure why we're talking about this really...

[Ithekro]

Do you want the true, true horror that could be unleashed by this idea?

AU Draenor Orcs...lead by AU Vorak Saurfang and his older brother, Broxigar. That would be overkill. Imagine two Saurfangs' in their brown prime cleaving their way through the Horde under the blue of the Alliance. Saurfangs are the primary orcish family that the entire Alliance respects for their honor and actions.

The horror of double the cleaves......

[RangerDaz]

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That answer is very simple. Look at the box. I mean really look at the box art. If you are not color blind I bet you can see that it is a green Orc and a reference to the RTS game they are adding into BfA.

In no way does what you say address AU Brown Orcs and the Alliance.

So many of you are closing the door before you even see the possibility because it scared you how much sense it makes. Watch Blizzard is going to rock your world.

I am actually partially color blind, but thankfully i can see the difference between green and brown.
If you go to the BfA mainsite, you will see the 4th wallpaper, and there is clearly shown the classic orc vs. the classic human with the Battle of Azeroth logo.

I also see in the first part of the main page the same orc and human with a giant sentence between them saying "DECLARE YOUR ALLEGIANCE".

I am sorry, i don't understand your point of view about a future unannounced RTS warcraft game and that this orc vs human is related only to the future RTS game and not the nostalgia orc vs human theme on BfA expansion.

I do get you want something different for a change, but from the own marketing of Blizzard it really seems they are going in the opposite direction you are speaking of, which is stick to the classic orc vs human sides.

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Oh please... stop being so desperate. The Orc in that art is green isn't he? The human is a Stomwind human isn't he? Everything holds water one way or another. It is literally up to what Blizz wants to do.

Your "desperate" expression is related to the 3 question marks?
I apologize, but I don't understand your comment.

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It's what we've being saying since like 4 or 5 pages ago. But some people here on mmo-c have developed an alarming degree of resistance to logic, apparently.

Yes
Another possibility is that this thread is infested with internet trolls

[TheEaterofSouls]

Isn't this just that "Glug Glug Glug! Saurfang is a cuck" meme from 4chan's WoW General? Are people actually taking this seriously?

Also this:

[Shakou]

4) Let's face it. Blizzard is not bringing back in anything that was introduced in WoD. Gul'dan was an exception, and that was simply because the last patch of WoD was effectively a build up to Legion. If the inverse were true, we'd see draenor orcs and draenei in Legion (especially after Yrel's "If you ever need us, we will be here").

Let's face it, you don't have a logical bone in your body. I don't mean to be a dick but your post makes no sense. There was no story reason for other AU Draenor characters to show up in Legion, so they didn't. And it's that simple.

FYI along with the allied race armor and mount they also found a new version of the Gorgrond map in the files.

It is not a question of IF the allied race is AU Draenor Orcs it is only WHEN it is being released.

Also for the umpteenth time the Mag'har of Outland are already part of the Horde.

[Serenais]

Let's face it, you don't have a logical bone in your body. I don't mean to be a dick but your post makes no sense. There was no story reason for other AU Draenor characters to show up in Legion, so they didn't. And it's that simple.

FYI along with the allied race armor and mount they also found a new version of the Gorgrond map in the files.

It is not a question of IF the allied race is AU Draenor Orcs it is only WHEN it is being released.

Also for the umpteenth time the Mag'har of Outland are already part of the Horde.

Logically (although I should probably not use that word, since I apparently do not understand logic), this was Azeroth's worst hour yet, so if we didn't need them now, we are pretty unlikely to need them anytime soon. That doesn't preclude them joining on their own volition, but that is an entirely different situation. We might state "there was no reason to include them in the story", however, the story suffers if it breaks its own internal consistency. Blizzard may not be excellent at storycrafting, but that doesn't mean we have to accept everything they serve us at face value.
I didn't know about the updated Gorgrond map, so mea culpa there. That changes what I meant to imply in point 4, very well.

Anything that I said doesn't make any sense, though? Please, provide refutations for points 1-3 and the hypothesis of what Saurfang could be up to, if he isn't simply giving the Horde team time. In case you can't, I would preffer if you didn't use blanket statements because you found a problem with one thing stated.

On top that, may I inquire, though, what do Mag'har of Outland have to do with AU Draenor Shadowmoon orcs from Exile's Rise? Those are the only orcs I mentioned (with the exception of the point of "There is no chance that any other orc faction would get anywhere near the Alliance except for necessary temporary cooperation in case of mutual interest.", but I still don't see why that would ilicit a response implying that I questioned the status of the Mag'har) . I probably should've said so in name, since stating "subgroup of AU Shadowmoon Valley orcs" was obviously not clear enough. Not once did I imply any status for any other orc clan, group or subgroup, be it on Outland, Azeroth or Draenor.

[Deleted]

Yeah, the woman that banishes her own daughter for allying with the Horde and causing Daelin's death, will then ally with the Horde.

Even by Blizzard standards this would be stupid. And I don't say this lightly.

Maybe she blames Jaina for it. You guys really like to assume things. then get very outraged when it becomes true. Really should be more open minded. It's just a game.

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That's not doing away with the factions. Doing away with the factions means letting Alliance and Horde be able to group up for dungeons/PVP.

Giving brown orcs to the Alliance does nothing to help that. Not only you will still have that divide that doesn't allow you to group up, instead you will have fucked the lore up so much, a significant portion of the playerbase will quit in disgust.

It's a lose-lose situation.

There is a diference between what i think should happen (ending factions) and my ability to accept changes to the faction status quo. Stagnation is what i think is boring. Humans on the horde? Orcs on the alliance? I think that makes things more interesting.

The portion crying and threatning to leave is minor and can go. If this means the game's story will be more interesting and unpredictable and players will have more gameplay choices, they can all leave right now. I don't give a scooby about selfish people stuck in the past.
It's not a lose-lose. It's a win-win. No one needs fanatic fans that can't accept change.

[lordsesho]

i dont know why this topic in going so far, saurfang dont like sylvanas so he will betray horde and kill orgrimmar orcs in a war? this is simply retarded.

[Shakou]

Logically (although I should probably not use that word, since I apparently do not understand logic)

I'm not interested in debating you on this, there's just no kinder way to say this than you do not know what you're talking about on this topic.

No matter what mental gymnastics you attempt, AU Draenor is now intimately tied to our universe. It wasn't just a fluke and we closed a portal and that's all gone now, our timeline has been permanently effected by the cross-over and there simply is no repairing the timeline without some damning consequences. What are they gonna do, go back in time and stop WOD and therefore Legion from even happening? Ya okay.

Anyways, in case you were too busy trying to argue, a slightly changed Gorgrond map is part of what's been datamined involving these allied race Orcs. Gorgrond is not even a fucking thing in Outland, it doesn't exist. So ya they're AU Draenor Orcs. Deal with it.

[Wildspirit]

I'm not interested in debating you on this, there's just no kinder way to say this than you do not know what you're talking about on this topic.

No matter what mental gymnastics you attempt, AU Draenor is now intimately tied to our universe. It wasn't just a fluke and we closed a portal and that's all gone now, our timeline has been permanently effected by the cross-over and there simply is no repairing the timeline without some damning consequences. What are they gonna do, go back in time and stop WOD and therefore Legion from even happening? Ya okay.

Anyways, in case you were too busy trying to argue, a slightly changed Gorgrond map is part of what's been datamined involving these allied race Orcs. Gorgrond is not even a fucking thing in Outland, it doesn't exist. So ya they're AU Draenor Orcs. Deal with it.

Agreed. This alternate timeline arc has had such dramatic consequences (Legion and future Void xpac) there's no way anyone would think it's now old news and they won't use anything for Draenor in the future. Also, a portal closed can be re-opened, and players still have access to Draenor via tp stones. Why would other npc wouldn't then?

And yeah, the wording form Blizzard was pretty clear "Draenor Orcs". Plus, the datamined updated Gorgrond map is proof enough in my book. Last but not least, Most of Draenor orcs were allied with Horde, so in what world would they suddenly choose to go alliance?!

[MatadorMedia]

He says very loud and clearly toward the end of this video that this is an outlandish theory with no chance of being true.

That's what "tinfoil-hat theory" means brah.

[Unholyground]

Alliance Orcs = good bye Warcraft for myself.
As Horde i have no interest in killing Orcs, i quit before SoO in MoP because of this.

I will kill anyone if the price is right in the World of Warcraft.

[Shakou]

That's what "tinfoil-hat theory" means brah.

Yes but it's not his theory. This shit was being discussed here and on reddit and a bunch of other places before they made that. You don't know what their schtick is, it's mainly calling out the nonsense the community talks about online.