The US is NOT the worst country for mass shootings

[AceofH]

Sorry but the Goal is the Reduce Gun Violence.

so lets take away spoons because they make people fat and they die of relations to that (far more per year then guns).
lets ban take away doctors cuz 11 times as many people die due to malpractice then guns.
lets ban alcohol because of all the people who die due to alcohol related incidents per year...

[unbound]

so explain the number of deaths we have due to drunk driving. I don't see anyone advocating to take away alcohol or cars. why not? we have more deaths due to those then we do guns

Sure we have. We've elevated the age of drinking to 21 (used to be 18 in most states). We've set harsher penalties for drunk driving as well as lowered the blood-alcohol level to about 1/2 of what was acceptable before, and we've made things safer. Fewer drunk drivers are caught and accidents and deaths involving drunk drivers are about 1/2 of what they were 30 years ago (and that is total annual numbers, it was cut down closer to 1/3 of what it was per capita).

And that is the similar approach people are taking with gun control. There is no serious effort to take away all guns. But we need to stop being stupid about the big guns and devices that allow for more rapid firing (e.g. bump stocks and large ammo clips).

And there is absolutely no real reason to fight that. I was raised a hunter. No hunter needs an AR-15 or anything like it. No hunter needs banana clips. No hunter needs bump stocks. No hobbyist needs those things. No one worried about protecting their loved ones needs those things. Anyone who says they actually need those things is either a moron or lying.

Do you want those things? Yeah. So what? I'd like rocket launchers on my car, but I'm not getting those either.

340,000 people a year die to medical malpractice. i am 31 times more likely to die in a hospital then i am from a gun used for homicide.

Food for thought.

Yes, please think about that. Think about what is going on when malpractice happens. A doctor was trying to fix a problem. About 50 million medical procedures are performed every year, so 0.6% of people are killed by a mistake. 99.4% of people are successfully helped.

What is going on when there is a death by gun? Someone was trying to shoot someone for a reason, or it was discharged by mistake. This is completely apples and oranges.

Food for thought.

[Zan15]

You just linked a chart from an unknown source though. I linked an article, AND the research paper that the data comes from. Show your work. Let's see your data, and then we can break it down, as we have been doing to my data.

umm isn't the source listed right in the chart....i mean...it says "source: UNODC" You know the united nations......

[Gimlix]

What a shitty list. No way the Netherlands is doing worse then US.
The amount of crime USA has in 1 day is the same the Netherlands has over a year time. If it's not more years.

[Travis B]

Summary of this thread for anyone who doesn't feel like wading through 10 pages:

1. Tijuana posts article based on bullshit statistics by a well-known fraud.
2. People point out the fraud and the manipulated statistics.
3. Tijuana asks people to post their facts/stats.
4. People post their facts/stats.
5. Tijuana claims said facts/stats are bullshit without giving any reason, and asks people to provide more facts/stats.
6. Repeat steps #4 - 5.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

like what? what am i supposed to do against a criminal who has a gun? call the cops? well guess what? they aren't going to get there in time.
a gun is by far the most self sufficient form of self defense.

and yes, we don't NEED to hunt for food, but you know what? some people like too!

we don't need to do a lot of things. but we do them anyway.

Mabye do the same thing every one else around the world does? You say criminals can get guns no matter what so how is any one in the world defending them selfs in all the country’s they can’t have guns?

https://www.ontario.ca/page/hunting-...ario-residents

[Cyberowl]

lol okay. yeah. give up our guns. know what other leaders had citizens give up there guns? Hitler, China, etc.

Those and countless others without such evil intent.

[AceofH]

Ahh of course the Three Pillars of the Pro Gun arguments

Second Amendment
I need my guns to protect myself from Big Brother
I need my Guns to protect myself from other people.

when you can prove that violence and crime will stop by everyone giving up there guns, i'll support you. but thats not the case.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

i have zero guns. but you know what? my family has a lot, all are registered and all had background checks, and keep there guns in safes and only use them for hunting or sport. and by sport i don't mean shooting at people.

So that’s a no?

[AceofH]

It's a broken record of lost life.

Which is ridiculous when you consider their evangelical stance on abortion and women's rights.

as someone who is fine with letting people have there guns - women can do what they want with abortions and there own life too.

[Blamblam41]

Sure we have. We've elevated the age of drinking to 21 (used to be 18 in most states). We've set harsher penalties for drunk driving as well as lowered the blood-alcohol level to about 1/2 of what was acceptable before, and we've made things safer. Fewer drunk drivers are caught and accidents and deaths involving drunk drivers are about 1/2 of what they were 30 years ago (and that is total annual numbers, it was cut down closer to 1/3 of what it was per capita).

And that is the similar approach people are taking with gun control. There is no serious effort to take away all guns. But we need to stop being stupid about the big guns and devices that allow for more rapid firing (e.g. bump stocks and large ammo clips).

And there is absolutely no real reason to fight that. I was raised a hunter. No hunter needs an AR-15 or anything like it. No hunter needs banana clips. No hunter needs bump stocks. No hobbyist needs those things. No one worried about protecting their loved ones needs those things. Anyone who says they actually need those things is either a moron or lying.

Do you want those things? Yeah. So what? I'd like rocket launchers on my car, but I'm not getting those either.



Yes, please think about that. Think about what is going on when malpractice happens. A doctor was trying to fix a problem. About 50 million medical procedures are performed every year, so 0.6% of people are killed by a mistake. 99.4% of people are successfully helped.

What is going on when there is a death by gun? Someone was trying to shoot someone for a reason, or it was discharged by mistake. This is completely apples and oranges.

Food for thought.

Gonna reply to this just to make it plain, this idea that guns are a necessary evil is a narrative spoon fed to you by the NRA and gun collectors.

Anyone that actually owns less than 5 guns knows that any kind of gun reform is not targeting them. This is entirely gun nuts terrified their collections will be seized.

[Vankrys]

the problem is people who obtain them illegally. blame criminals. not guns.

do we blame cars for car accidents?
do we blame spoons for making us fat?
do we blame airplanes for the 9/11 terrorist attack?

no we blame the people.

the primary purpose of cars is transportation, not killing people. And driving a car is a privilege, not a right, and you need a license to drive a car.
Your spoon argument is new to me and frankly hilariously far fetched. Are you really standing by it in your gun right argument.
9/11 was a terrorist attack, and yes, not the plane per se, but airplane security as well intelligence community was blamed at the time for letting it happen. Beside, at least 9/11 triggered a lot of change in legislation regarding plane security. And that's exactly what people want to trigger regarding gun security.

Now, i hope i don't teach you anything when i tell you that a gun is a weapon. Unlike a car, a plane or a spoon (hugh, really), the intent of a gun is to create bodily harm, or kill. As such, it should be more regulated than a car. And it is less regulated than a car actually. it's maddening.

[Blamblam41]

as someone who is fine with letting people have there guns - women can do what they want with abortions and there own life too.

Cool, tell that to the elected officials that seem to have a problem with that, but are okay with you having your stupid guns.

Again, anyone with just 1 or 2 guns knows any kind of reform is not targeting them.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

so blame the shooters. not the guns.

I’ll blame both.

[Tijuana]

So where are all of the Canadian mass shootings? We’re right next to America and you can cross the border with little fan fair surly there should be similar numbers.

They didn't make the list. Good job, Canadia. Keep up the good work, sir...err...ma'am...err...you folks...err...persons whose gender I don't know, but I don't want to be jailed.

[szechuan]

so lets take away spoons because they make people fat and they die of relations to that (far more per year then guns).
lets ban take away doctors cuz 11 times as many people die due to malpractice then guns.
lets ban alcohol because of all the people who die due to alcohol related incidents per year...

False equivalences galore

people killing each other with spoons is not an issue

Nobody is asking to Ban Guns. It's Gun Control, we have Alcohol Control in the U.S. to reduce Alchohol Related Incidents. We should also have proper Gun Control.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

lol okay. yeah. give up our guns. know what other leaders had citizens give up there guns? Hitler, China, etc.

Most of the rest of the world who isn’t Hitler or China.

[SgtFluffy]

I registered just post this. I don't know if anyone posted this already, but looking at the board of directors for crimeresearch.org: Ted Nugent and David Clarke. They lose all credibility to espouse anything....ever!!! Also, by the way so do you for citing it.

[Cyberowl]

Summary of this thread for anyone who doesn't feel like wading through 10 pages:

1. Tijuana posts article based on bullshit statistics by a well-known fraud.
2. People point out the fraud and the manipulated statistics.
3. Tijuana asks people to post their facts/stats.
4. People post their facts/stats.
5. Tijuana claims said facts/stats are bullshit without giving any reason, and asks people to provide more facts/stats.
6. Repeat steps #4 - 5.

We were at step 4/5 one fifth into the thread. Can't teach an old sock new tricks I guess.

[szechuan]

when you can prove that violence and crime will stop by everyone giving up there guns, i'll support you. but thats not the case.

Again the goal isn't to reduce Violence in general although that would be better. the goal Reduce Gun Violence.

Baby Steps to reducing Violence in the U.S.