The US is NOT the worst country for mass shootings

[SirBeef]

I find it fascinating that OP found a date range of 2009-2015 fascinating.

God, I bet it was such a relief to the author when they found the date range that actually supported the story they wanted so bad to tell.

I know it's too much to ask of some people, but try and employ what little critical thinking.

It's TJ. Did you expect something else?

[Rotted]

If we're banning rifles, why not knives, too?

Trolololol

[AceofH]

Imagine you aren't in the U.S. and guns are illegal where you live. When guns are illegal it becomes much harder for people to go around with guns. They need to acquire them through illegal means and can be arrested simply for carrying or owning the gun. Most criminals would be unable to procure a gun. So the chances of meeting a criminal with a gun are significantly lower, because legal gun stores just don't exist.

Most people don't even want to carry guns around anyway, so they will be equally defenseless whether guns are legal or illegal. But if guns are legal then the criminals are much more likely to have guns. That doesn't help protect any innocent people.

On the off chance you do have a gun as soon as you take a gun out in front of somebody with a gun, they will shoot you for sure. Being unarmed also reduces the chances of getting shot.

being unarmed reduces my ability to defend myself. period. whether the attacker have a gun, a knife, or anything else.

[Tijuana]

Japan is not a free country?

The point is that the list is stupid. When a country which has had only ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of mass shooting since WWII is listed as #1, it does not take a statistician to realize that the data is skewed.

China is not a free country. Re-read what I said.

Ok, I'll grant you #1 is skewed. What about 2-9? What about #10? What about #11? The figures are there, and they seem to be heavily on my side.

[szechuan]

well fact is, that guns only kill 11,000 people per year. and yet i see people crusading to take away the right of others to defend themselves and to be able to provide food.

You know what another interesting fact? Gun Control has shown to work if done properly.

do you want tougher laws? to enforce existing laws? or do you want to take away guns? some of you all want different things.

What do you think people are trying to figure out right now.

[AceofH]

You won't be seeing me say no to those. The problem is those are incredibly lackluster right now or not even required.

In Michigan they are. Go ahead. make those Country wide. i won't complain.

but come to Michigan and try to take away the guns my family legally acquired...

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Be reasonable.
Gun Violence is only. Do you even hear yourself anymore? I already mentioned this is about Gun Violence yet you always want to equivocate it to something else. Just because something else is worse doesn't change the fact that we need to reduce Gun Violence.

okay thats true.
but i don't see you guys starting crusades against the other things as well.

THe goal shouldn't be reducing gun violence. that is merely a step. teh goal is PRESERVING LIVES. so therefore take a stance against things that cost people lives.

[Tijuana]

Present the correct facts? How about present -all- the facts, instead of the information you decided to cherry pick (again).

Are you seriously sitting here and trying to conflate an issue wherein a JROTC student died trying to save the fellow lives of his students? Are you honestly so fucking daft that you're alright with a dipshit 19 year old taking the life of someone that actually wanted to be a fucking soldier, that died saving lives? Because here's some real fucking news.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ing/357885002/



So please kindly go fuck yourself.

Please stop putting words in my mouth. It's very rude, and it's a weak method of debate.

My point, is that we should consider the size of the US, when we discuss the frequency of these events. My side point, is to note that despite guns being banned in many of these nations, these shootings still seem to be happening. If gun bans are not working in countries with no discernible gun culture, how are they going to work for a bunch of cowboys who romanticize the wild west?

[AceofH]

Enforce it how? You already admitted they don’t check on your guns.

my family had to do background checks, training, classes, and tests in order to even be able to buy a gun, which they then had to register.

how about we start wtih that across the entire US?

[kail]

gun violence is only 11,000 people per year.

we lose more people per year due to obesity then we do guns. we lose more due to alcohol then we do to guns.

and yet i don't see crusades ongoing against them.

Heh, "only". 11,000 lives (not going to verify numbers right now), and you think that supports your argument.

[szechuan]

okay thats true.
but i don't see you guys starting crusades against the other things as well.

THe goal shouldn't be reducing gun violence. that is merely a step. teh goal is PRESERVING LIVES. so therefore take a stance against things that cost people lives.

Baby Steps.

[Deleted]

So, mass shootings only matter if there is no terrorism? What?

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Why do facts make you angry? They are inanimate. They are just sitting there. You don't even have to read them.

Blaming terrorism on the US is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard a human say. Walk me through your logic. If we are to blame for the actions of terrorists, then who is to blame for us? Everyone is responsible for their own actions, and not responsible for the actions of others. This is a core tenet of every civilized society.

they don't idiots make me angry, dead kids make me angry, and yanks make me angry the most.

there is a fundamental difference between the actions of terrorist cell and your mental health system being shit. get that straight right now.

as for America being the leading cause in the rise in militant Islam its not even a damned secret there own government has held there hands up to it, the CIA's involvement in the middle east from 1949 to 1989 is in the public record from recorded CIA involvement with the Muslim brotherhood that led to the suez crisis to
the support of Islamist's over communists or the established regime in the persian revolution by president carter and the
arming and funding of the Taliban in the 1980 soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the list goes on and on.

read you history this stuff is right in released documents, America has a hand in every major event in the rise of militant Islam and thing is its rarely on purpose its one fuck up after another.

if i punch you in the face, am i to blame for you punching me back ? yes.

[Cyberowl]

my family had to do background checks, training, classes, and tests in order to even be able to buy a gun, which they then had to register.

how about we start wtih that across the entire US?

Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.

[Machismo]

Call me crazy, but I think discussions of what freedoms should be allowed, doesn't need to have input from countries that are not even free countries. If we have to be like China, to stop gun murders, I'll pass. I would rather be dead, than live without freedom.

The point of the list is specifically to examine per capita figures. Yet, you are calling for using total figures. Why are you advocating for MORE skewing of the data? Why not just use the real facts?

So, why do those beliefs not translate to immigration and free trade? It’s a shame you can’t be more consistent.

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the problem is people who obtain them illegally. blame criminals. not guns.

do we blame cars for car accidents?
do we blame spoons for making us fat?
do we blame airplanes for the 9/11 terrorist attack?

no we blame the people.

Ironically, people do seem to want to blame Islam for a terrorist killing people.

[ManiaCCC]

The obvious point, that so many are struggling with, is that the US is a HUGE country, so the number of these events is heightened. We are constantly compared to tiny countries, on this issue, but they always use total figures, not per capita figures. This is just intended to present the REAL facts.

Why are the same people who insist we must use PER CAPITA figures, when discussing Chicago murders, now crying foul because I am using per capita figures? What in the actual fuck?

Well, I compared 500 million Europe with 300 million USA..

The slovakia case was just pointing that these statistics just doesn't make much sense.

[Deleted]

Not anymore then people like you who keep comparing America to Australia and its gun regulations. Both are completely separate and the only reason shootings are down in Australia is because there they are replacing guns (which was swept away and destroyed in the late 90's) with other weapons. And suicide rates for Australia was going down the same before the gun legislation was introduced.

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/...iament-Rev.pdf

Has some interesting points on issues that can be taken out of context to make Australia APPEAR to be having massive success. Honestly the most defined way we can change this mass shooting RIGHT now would be to allow people to legally bring guns into the school. Had the coach whom was a military trained expert been able to have access to his gun instead of being a shield for the kids he heroically protected he could have killed that SOB who will most likely sit all nice and pretty on our dime for the next 80 years eating better then 80% of Africa.

i have never compared America to Australia. i wouldn't insult Australians by doing so. my opinion and stance is America is so fucking retarded on the whole you have no chance of any change. i just feel sorry for the odd ones that have a brain over there.

i do take um-bridge when they feel the need to shit post some facts out of context about Europe though.

[Tijuana]

You don't even know what the shoddy data you presented means, how is someone else supposed to attempt to change your mind when you have repeatedly shown an utterly biased and one-track mindset? If you want to be taken seriously online or irl then start posting like an adult receptive to criticism and other ideas rather than double down on faulty information.

I didn't post it because I knew or did not know what the data means. I posted it so we can discuss it, and I can find out what it means to all of you guys. I thought this was the whole point in discussion forums.

You and I have had a lot of enjoyable discussions. Why are you reluctant to consider these facts as relevant? Do you think per capita figures are irrelevant, when discussing the frequency of crimes in a given nation? Do India and Pakistan have the same crime totals, despite their different populations? Would it not be wise to note that variance, when discussing and comparing them?

[AceofH]

You know what another interesting fact? Gun Control has shown to work if done properly.



What do you think people are trying to figure out right now.

well thats the thing. not everyone wants the same thing. there are MANY who want to outright take guns away.
IF you want to actually enforce existing laws or make laws that make sense...go ahead.
IF you want to take guns away completly or make it downright impossible for me to defend myself. we going to have issues.

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Heh, "only". 11,000 lives (not going to verify numbers right now), and you think that supports your argument.

compared to medical malpractice at 340,000 a year?
obesity at 600k a year?

[Zan15]

Yes, the table uses different data than some other tables. How does that make the underlying facts untrue though? If one car ad lists HP and the other lists BHP, that doesn't mean one side is lying.

Because he is not counting all the mass shootings. He is actually not even counting 1/2 of them.


just a simple question.
How is shooting 11 people not considered a mass shooting?

the table does not use different data that "some"...it uses different data than almost "all" other studies.

[AceofH]

Baby Steps.

thats some pretty friggen small baby steps going after 11,000 when you have obesity at 600k...

[Machismo]

Show me figures that refute mine then. I'll wait.

That has already been done on multiple occasions.