Hopefully, this is not the extent of our BfA utility...

[Tech614]

Nope, its a healthy thing to question stuff. You should try, instead of having blind faith that everything is gonna be rainbows.

Yes, it's healthy to question things that aren't common sense. Not so much to question things that are common sense.

[Llarold]

Because AoE stuns will definitely get them a raid spot.

:clap:

All the more reason to start off the expansion with another tank.

Without a doubt. Druid's still looking great and Warrior is shockingly good, but with the entire Heart of Azeroth system both a total unknown and a massive source of class power, we're all just hurling bricks in the dark right now.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I wish they'd delete monks, literally no one is as whiny as those losers.

Generalize much? Also have you read General Discussions lately? Because 1) I only see one person in this thread whining, and 2) There's a lot of whining coming from non-monks.

[Musta]

Yes, it's healthy to question things that aren't common sense. Not so much to question things that are common sense.

Blizzard is not known for its common sense im afraid.

[dcc626]

Blizzard is not known for its common sense im afraid.

a trait it shares with the playerbase

[Musta]

a trait it shares with the playerbase

thats why im questioning things.

[FluFF]

If you gotta believe these class forums on here you shouldn't play any class cause every class subforum you go into people QQ about being inferior to class B in some form or shape.
In the Hunter forums they even bitch amongst themselves between BM vs MM vs Surv.

[Llarold]

vs Surv.

This seems false.

[Saverem]

This seems false.

They are the best of the 3 specs in Alpha... At least for now...

[Swalload]

Making RoP and Leg Sweep baseline is not the utility boost that Blizz promised all classes are getting.

On top of that, our Paralyze was nerfed down to 1m CD.


LS and RoP will only be useful in dungeons. There will still be nothing useful that a Monk will bring to raids. Look at DHs, they are getting a +5% magic damage increase buff pretty much solidifying their spot in any high end progression raid. Rogues get a +5% physical damage buff on top of their current utility toolkit. Warriors are getting three useful utility, Inspiring Presence, Last Stand, and Battle Shout. Pallies and Shamans are keeping all their fabulous utility, Shamans are getting WF totem back. Priests are getting Fort and Mages Arcane Int. Locks still bring 3 unique utilities that only they have Gate/HS/summons.

Meanwhile, Monks bring RoP and an AoE stun.... Both useless for 99% of raid encounters. Hopefully they add that Mastery raid buff to help out.

You have absolutely no idea what the raid encounters will be like. Not a single fucking idea.

Maybe LS and RoP will be useless, maybe it will be useful, we (very much including you) have no idea what it's gonna be like. So don't make threads about things you don't know.

[Saverem]

You have absolutely no idea what the raid encounters will be like. Not a single fucking idea.

Maybe LS and RoP will be useless, maybe it will be useful, we (very much including you) have no idea what it's gonna be like. So don't make threads about things you don't know.

I can make an educated guess from the last 14 years of raiding content that not many fights are going to utilize AoE stuns...


Do you know what WILL be useful for EVERY raid fight? Lock stones... Battle Shout... +5% more magic/physical damage buffs... Fort... AI...BRez....Lust/Heroism... Innervate...SLT.... That mastery buff that we were set to get but didn't...


Heck, if they baked in the Leggo bonus into our Windwalking passive and gave Monks a +20%-25% run speed to raid, that would be enough for me to STFU about raid utility.

[Swalload]

I can make an educated guess from the last 14 years of raiding content that not many fights are going to utilize AoE stuns...


Do you know what WILL be useful for EVERY raid fight? Lock stones... Battle Shout... +5% more magic/physical damage buffs... Fort... AI...BRez....Lust/Heroism... Innervate...SLT.... That mastery buff that we were set to get but didn't...


Heck, if they baked in the Leggo bonus into our Windwalking passive and gave Monks a +20%-25% run speed to raid, that would be enough for me to STFU about raid utility.

I've seen pretty much any encounter beaten without many of these buffs. The game has never been balanced around requiring everything. It sure help, but so would aoe stuns in a fight with many adds. Just look at Mistress in ToS it's fucking great to time aoe stuns to deal with the adds better. It's not impossible that this could come back. Not to mention all the trash where it's awesome to stun everything, bosses are not the only thing in raids, and raids are not the only thing in the game. Especially when the MDI is pulling just as much if not more attention than the raid race.

My only concern is if other classes provide aoe stuns AND a buff, then it's just not balanced.

[Saverem]

I've seen pretty much any encounter beaten without many of these buffs. The game has never been balanced around requiring everything. It sure help, but so would aoe stuns in a fight with many adds. Just look at Mistress in ToS it's fucking great to time aoe stuns to deal with the adds better. It's not impossible that this could come back. Not to mention all the trash where it's awesome to stun everything, bosses are not the only thing in raids, and raids are not the only thing in the game. Especially when the MDI is pulling just as much if not more attention than the raid race.

My only concern is if other classes provide aoe stuns AND a buff, then it's just not balanced.

Why are you putting AoE stun on such a high pedestal? I am referring to RAID utility and you people keep bringing up M+s with that same tired argument. It's ironic that you give a ToS example for stuns when Monks (outside of BrMs) were completely garbage in that tier. "Let's bring in a Monk to help with M Mistress" was said exactly zero times during ToS progression.

Look at Locks, they have a RANGED AOE STUN in BfA and still kept their HS/summons/gateway. Having an AoE stun doesn't mean you're set on utility.

[Swalload]

Why are you putting AoE stun on such a high pedestal? I am referring to RAID utility and you people keep bringing up M+s with that same tired argument.

Look at Locks, they have a RANGED AOE STUN in BfA and still kept their HS/summons/gateway. Having an AoE stun doesn't mean you're set on utility.

Right, but you're making it sound like it's 100% useless, which is factually not true.
AoE stuns won't be a necessity just like lock gates, health stones, or any dps buff won't be.
Either way, the M+ argument isn't a tired one, people on average are spending just as much if not more time in M+ than in raids, and the ratio will be even more skewed in BfA with the tier set bonuses being gone and more 5man dungeons announced.

[Saverem]

Right, but you're making it sound like it's 100% useless, which is factually not true.
AoE stuns won't be a necessity just like lock gates, health stones, or any dps buff won't be.
Either way, the M+ argument isn't a tired one, people on average are spending just as much if not more time in M+ than in raids, and the ratio will be even more skewed in BfA with the tier set bonuses being gone and more 5man dungeons announced.

I meant the M+ argument is tired to this thread since it is focusing on raid utility. Bringing up its usefulness in M+ or PvP is just irrelevant since those are completely different things.

As for how useful a 3s stun every minute will be in BfA M+, I suspect, still not as useful as Lust/BRez/Grip. You are also missing the fact that our once glorious Paralyze is getting nerfed to a 1min CD. Only 2 classes got that CC nerf, Monks and DHs.

[Swalload]

I meant the M+ argument is tired to this thread since it is focusing on raid utility. Bringing up its usefulness in M+ or PvP is just irrelevant since those are completely different things.

As for how useful a 3s stun every minute will be in BfA M+, I suspect, still not as useful as Lust/BRez/Grip. You are also missing the fact that our once glorious Paralyze is getting nerfed to a 1min CD. Only 2 classes got that CC nerf, Monks and DHs.

Well I guess all there is left to do is call the cops and hope they fix the situation and send these evil devs to jail for not making everything perfect a shitloads of months before release.

[Anufis]

a shitloads of months before release.

Fun thing I have heard same argument in WoD and Legion.

[Saverem]

Well I guess all there is left to do is call the cops and hope they fix the situation and send these evil devs to jail for not making everything perfect a shitloads of months before release.

Ah, the retort of someone who ran out of argument.

I win.

[Alvito]

Making RoP and Leg Sweep baseline is not the utility boost that Blizz promised all classes are getting.

On top of that, our Paralyze was nerfed down to 1m CD.


LS and RoP will only be useful in dungeons. There will still be nothing useful that a Monk will bring to raids. Look at DHs, they are getting a +5% magic damage increase buff pretty much solidifying their spot in any high end progression raid. Rogues get a +5% physical damage buff on top of their current utility toolkit. Warriors are getting three useful utility, Inspiring Presence, Last Stand, and Battle Shout. Pallies and Shamans are keeping all their fabulous utility, Shamans are getting WF totem back. Priests are getting Fort and Mages Arcane Int. Locks still bring 3 unique utilities that only they have Gate/HS/summons.

Meanwhile, Monks bring RoP and an AoE stun.... Both useless for 99% of raid encounters. Hopefully they add that Mastery raid buff to help out.

Using Antorus as the template ring of peace is pretty damn amazing for Eonar, Coven and Aggramar. For 2 of those fights it is by far the best tool being brought to the table with 1 exception of mass grip.

[Swalload]

Fun thing I have heard same argument in WoD and Legion.

And other xpacks and during the xpacks and between every raid and everybody lose their shit omg call the cops

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, the retort of someone who ran out of argument.

I win.

Nah it's just turning in a waste of time so I'm saying stupid shit cuz this entire conversation never went any higher than a pile of shit either way.