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  1. #21
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    Wanna show me where Jaina is openly racist? Where she says she wants to conquer the world? Where she destroys cities? Horde fanboys hate her for hating Horde and forget it's because of their actions she does.
    1 - things all horde are now evil
    2 - Doesn't want to conquer the world but has no quarms about the alliance ruling over everything now
    3 - She attempted to destroy orgrimmar, killing all innocent members of the horde along with those who attacked theramore

    And its well and funny having you make accusation about horde fanboys when your clearly bias to the alliances characters, grow up dude.
    #boycottchina

  2. #22
    Bloodsail Admiral Xtrm's Avatar
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    My only issue with this theory is the timeline. So Anduin gives this speech and then we're immediately wisked away to Silithus. We don't know exactly how long has passed between the speech and our arrival in Silithus. Ogmot's journal has the goblins arriving in Silithus on page 3, and the lie being told on page 5. We arrive after page 10. It seems like the lie had to have happened before the speech, unless it took us a long time to get from Stormwind to Silithus, which on page 7 it says "many days have past without a vision", implying it was a longer period of time between page 6 and 7.

    Now I get that time isn't really shown in-game compared to in lore. It may have taken weeks to get from Stormwind to Silithus after Anduin's speech, but it's hard to tell.

    Also I hope Anduin isn't the "boy king", it fits too perfectly and Old Gods are more about riddles and twists.
    Last edited by Xtrm; 2018-02-22 at 01:11 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrm View Post
    Also I hope Anduin isn't the "boy king", it fits too perfectly and Old Gods are more about riddles and twists.
    But Blizzard isnt.

  4. #24
    No matter the reason, considering/attempting magical genocide is not an indicator of a healthy personality.
    I do think that's bad writing and unfitting of the character we got to know in WC3 and early WoW.

    But you can't say Jaina is a hero anymore, anti-hero at best, and potential war criminal in the eyes of the Horde.

    Let's hope BfA brings better writing for her. Golden most likely was "under order" when writing Tides of War, but is now in charge of WoW's storytelling and Jaina's in particular.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  5. #25
    Legendary!
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    So where are the spoilers?

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    I play both sides evenly, can you blame her for her feelings? Her home and all her friends/ subjects, were murdered. Also, the only reason she didn't destroy Orgimmar was because Kalecgos came and she relented her control, even then, it was just a reaction to Garrosh's action.

    Your bias is showing far more than mine. Jaina is the most human character in WoW and people hate her because of that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also I like the mental gymnastics, succeeding to destroy Theramore and Teldrassil, a literal World Tree, is totally fine but trying and stopping before you destroy Org makes Jaina evil? Good one
    It wasn't murder, it was war. Only because you think dying in "cool" and "honourable" melee or face to face combat is better, instead of being killed by a massive bomb, doesn't change that. Based on your logic, everyone who loses loved ones in war is righteously entitled to mass murder other people who were not involved, because of feelings. This is seriously fucked up big time. Or are you just a White Knight defending poor vagina?

    And Teldrassil is no important World Tree at all. First and foremost, its the capital of the Night Elves, created by the Night Elves, nearly corrupted too and nothing more. And as an act of war, the Alliance would be totally in the right to destroy Ogrimmar. Something you wouldn't have a problem with at all i bet. Same as the Horde was destroying Theramore though. Something you obviously aren't fine with or don't understand. But you're of course not biased or an Alliance Fanboy. Of course....

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Ah hum

    Jaina tries to steal everyone's pets to make fur coats? Yeah, I can see that getting players up in arms.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Jaina tries to steal everyone's pets to make fur coats?
    Sounds like an average daily quest.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    3 - She attempted to destroy orgrimmar, killing all innocent members of the horde along with those who attacked theramore
    When people say she attempted to, it makes it sound like she actively tried and was stopped. That's a little disingenuous. She intended to, yes. In her grief and anger, she did plan to and was preparing the spell to do so, but she was talked down and stopped of her own volition. I feel that's a fairly discernible difference to note.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Sounds like an average daily quest.
    "101 Pet Battle Rescues"

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    When people say she attempted to, it makes it sound like she actively tried and was stopped. That's a little disingenuous. She intended to, yes. In her grief and anger, she did plan to and was preparing the spell to do so, but she was talked down and stopped of her own volition. I feel that's a fairly discernible difference to note.
    Obviously that tsunami forming next to Orgrimmar was just in her head.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    Wanna show me where Jaina is openly racist? Where she says she wants to conquer the world? Where she destroys cities? Horde fanboys hate her for hating Horde and forget it's because of their actions she does.
    She wanted to kill even Orc children because of their race, issues a group punishment against Sunreavers. Garrosh's idea of conquering the world was subjugating the Alliance under the Horde's heel, does dismantling the Horde ring a bell? And she tried to destroy Orgrimmar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    I play both sides evenly, can you blame her for her feelings? Her home and all her friends/ subjects, were murdered. Also, the only reason she didn't destroy Orgimmar was because Kalecgos came and she relented her control, even then, it was just a reaction to Garrosh's action.
    You're moving goalposts. Jaina having her reasons is irrelevant to the point you made before or the point you addressed. And the Horde had their reasons too. They didn't just randomly march to Theramore out of the blue. They did it because the factions were at war and it's Theramore itself that struck the first blow. So yay, Jaina reacted to Horde's reaction to Theramore's actions. Poor innocent Jaina. Who stopped her attempt at destroying Orgrimmar at last moment only because she was told she was behavinAlso, you playing both sides evenly, even if true, is not a magical spell against bias.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    Your bias is showing far more than mine. Jaina is the most human character in WoW and people hate her because of that.
    Totally. You moving the goalposts to "hurr Jaina had her reasons (and I'll pretend Horde had none)" cements you in the Hall of Fame of lacking bias. And since when are humans yo-yoes?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    Also I like the mental gymnastics, succeeding to destroy Theramore and Teldrassil, a literal World Tree, is totally fine but trying and stopping before you destroy Org makes Jaina evil? Good one
    It's cute that you accuse @Trassk of mental gymnastics when you not only moved the goalposts as per the above, but you're straw-manning him in the very sentence in which you whine about his supposed mental gymnastics. Because the post you quoted says nothing about her being evil.

    And Teldrassil being a "literal World Tree" is meaningless. World Trees aren't some important objects. The destruction of the last one only made Night Elves mortal again and lose other Aspect blessings. Teldrassil didn't even get Nozdormu's blessing.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2018-02-22 at 02:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    On that note, I expect we'll continue to defeat N'zoth's plans, and he'll continue to make gains anyhow.
    It definitely worked in his favor. Y'shaarg gained so much power that he became target #1 for the Titans. N'zoth was too weak to even care about, and while C'thun and Yogg were locked away, N'zoth could continue his corruption quietly.

  13. #33
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    Wanna show me where Jaina is openly racist? Where she says she wants to conquer the world? Where she destroys cities? Horde fanboys hate her for hating Horde and forget it's because of their actions she does.
    She started by exterminating innocent Blood Elves in Dalaran, almost destroyed Orgrimmar, and will only stop because Blizzard is writing some kind of "redemption" story for her. Yes I get that she's got a severe trauma from the destruction of Theramore. But then she should probably not have been pretending to be neutral while supporting Alliance military movements. You know, if Theramore would have been neutral, then Horde characters could be able to enter it without being attacked by the guards.

    BTW, my Horde stopped existing after Thrall stepped down and made the testosterone filled manchild Garrosh the new warchief. Still, I had hopes after we got to kill him and got Vol'jin as new warchief. But no, Blizzard had to waste this character and instead we got the mess we have now...
    Last edited by mmoceb1073a651; 2018-02-22 at 02:21 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmatrix View Post
    The Light sees one path and views everything else as lies.
    The Void sees all paths and views them all as truth. So how do you lie when you think everything is possible?
    You just changed my life.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    No, you're wrong, killing someone who isn't fighting back is murder. An Alliance soldier getting killed in battle isn't murder, a civilian going about their business in Theramore or Teldrassil is. That's just simple understanding of words my man, not my fault you lack the mental capacity to understand the difference. And I'm not a white knight by any means, for instance I really dislike Sylvannas but you your logic that's impossible because she is a female. Which again, is a really silly thing to suggest. I like Thrall and think people are too harsh about him to, does that also mean I'm a white knight?

    I would have a problem with the Alliance destroying Orgimmar, I think most Orcs like Saurfang and Thrall and perfectly honorable, cool characters I'd like to have leading the Horde. So that's another assumption you've made. Like I said, I play both Alliance and Horde and like different aspects of each. To me, the ideal version of the Horde was pre-cata, Garrosh was a racist fool and Sylvannas doesn't care for anyone other than herself and has no regard for life, Alliance or Horde (releasing plague anywhere she loses a battle, tainting the land for good proves this) she herself equates herself to Arthas and is solely motivated by avoiding the fate of death she deserves.

    The irony is you call me a fanboy and yet all the bias comes from your post. Think before you speak next time.
    For all this lack of bias and calling out @Xendral on their own bias and them supposedly lacking the mental capacity to understand simple "understandings" of words (particularly the difference between soldiers and civilians) you fail to realize, for a totally inexplicable reason of course, that civilians at Theramore had the time to escape. Which they did. Only people willing to help in Theramore's defense remained. Which was soldiers and a militia. Plus, like @Zulkhan said, Anduin mentions no great casualties in regards to Teldrassil, weirdly enough.

    Also, yay for your usual dose of fanfiction. Sylvanas doesn't care about just herself (she first started caring about Forsaken due to their usefulness, then her feelings evolved and she wanted to secure a future for them, acting surprised some may not want the immortality she wanted to give them and now is trying to secure a future for the entire Horde), she most certainly has a regard for life fearing death personally (regard for life and not wanting to waste soldiers just for the sake of honor is the entire point of her lashing at Saurfang, because she knows death while he only idealizes it because of Orc values), Blight in general doesn't tain the land for good, or in general (only Southshore strain has been said to do so and it was an accident) and she doesn't release it every time she loses a battle.

    Finally, Sylvanas didn't equate herself to Arthas. Garrosh did, asking her to name a difference. And she named facetious one because she was shit-talking to annoy him. Which Garrosh, an Orc that wasn't the brightest bulb exactly, realized it in an instant and called her out on it in an instant. And yet here you are, unable to comprehend that more than half a decade later, still trying to desperately make a point out of it. Suddenly your flailing around in regards to @Xendral 's "lack of mental capacity" to understand things became hilarious.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2018-02-22 at 02:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  16. #36
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    Except the Horde civil war was Horde vs Mean Orcs and Garrosh, the Alliance has no figure like Garrosh in power
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    Wanna show me where Jaina is openly racist? Where she says she wants to conquer the world? Where she destroys cities? Horde fanboys hate her for hating Horde and forget it's because of their actions she does.
    That's implying the Alliance needs a figure like that.

    The Alliance is not the Horde. It's not a "blunt" faction. If you read some of its history you'll know that underhanded schemes and subtle power grabs is excatly what fit them, in contrast to the Horde's harsh and brutal inner conflicts. And if someone's faith in Anduin's leadership will start to crumble then you may very well see a resurgence of good old Alliance's shenanigans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    I play both sides evenly, can you blame her for her feelings?
    Woah, the strawman. It's not like I joined SoO and beat Garrosh's ass because I blamed him for his feelings (which he had, being a guy haunted by insecurities and the burden of his legacy). Jaina feeling justified and being "sympathetic" does not exclude the possibility of her falling from grace, nor disproves anything of what @Trassk mentioned.

    Also I like the mental gymnastics, succeeding to destroy Theramore and Teldrassil, a literal World Tree, is totally fine but trying and stopping before you destroy Org makes Jaina evil? Good one
    Teldrassil has little to no value as World Tree and has been actually harmful in the past. We also don't know how the whole burning is going to happen. And in whatever fashion is going to happen, it looks fairly obvious that pretty much everyone escaped the place safely, considered Anduin's talking about "avenging the families who lost their homes" and nothing else. Jaina, on the other hand, really and genuinely tried to commit genocide. It wasn't an act of war, it was the lonely, rogue and ruthless quest of an enraged and hurt woman.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2018-02-22 at 04:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    When people say she attempted to, it makes it sound like she actively tried and was stopped. That's a little disingenuous. She intended to, yes. In her grief and anger, she did plan to and was preparing the spell to do so, but she was talked down and stopped of her own volition. I feel that's a fairly discernible difference to note.
    Which is exactly what happened? The only reason Orgrimmar wasn't hit with a tidal wave was because Thrall was holding it at bay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Not conquering and using the ressources Teldrassil would provide doesn't fit a character like Sylvanas anyway. And it doesn't make sense at all. Burning the place would be a waste, especially if you could build a Horde fortress there. I'm pretty sure the new book will shake things up in this regard and it will not be as clear, as the Alliance Fanboys and -girls on these forums wish or think it would be.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Which is exactly what happened? The only reason Orgrimmar wasn't hit with a tidal wave was because Thrall was holding it at bay.
    She was stopped from releasing it. She was not stopped from forming it.

    She herself undid the spell/whatever, Thrall only stopped her from releasing it to calm her down.

    Which mind you, this was still while her brain was overloaded on arcane from the bomb.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Which is exactly what happened? The only reason Orgrimmar wasn't hit with a tidal wave was because Thrall was holding it at bay.
    Silly Mehrunes, clearly it didnt happen because humans can do no wrong.

    Remember, Garithos was right

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    She was stopped from releasing it. She was not stopped from forming it.

    She herself undid the spell/whatever, Thrall only stopped her from releasing it to calm her down.

    Which mind you, this was still while her brain was overloaded on arcane from the bomb.
    Whats her excuse from turning her back on the entire world later on down the line?
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

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