Legion killed Gladiator Stance

[Carnedge]

Gladiator Talent needs to be rebirthed as a Spec of it's own. They can name the abilities whatever they want, as long as the playstyle remains the same.

[Alidfe]

They'd have the defenses of tanks no matter what, since they're tank spec first and foremost. They'd need the DPS of DPS, since otherwise they're unviable.

The first statement is entirely untrue. A DPS does not need the defenses of a tank.

or stop you from using Defensive Stance and tank abilities, at which point you're not really Prot anymore.

Gladiator Stance as it existed in WoD already did the first part to some extent though.

[dcc626]

If Warriors can have a single talent that switches them between a DPS prot warrior and a Tank prot warrior, I want Guardian and Feral merged.

Actually, both of those are entirely reasonable. Bring it on, Blizz!

they were split for a reason. only reason druids get a 4th spec is a nerf to feral/guardian.

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Feral Combat was originally a spec about swapping role during combat via shapeshifting. I'm annoyed and sad that it has been reduced to "just a DPS spec". It has seriously damaged its gameplay and identity.

What you basically just said if feral is a rogue that looks like a cat. Not happy with that.

I don't mean to derail your thread, though. I just think both that request and the merge Feral+Guardian requests are completely reasonable and should both be implemented.

a tank that can *in combat* become a full fledged dps while offtanking is never going to happen. its the whole reason they were split in the first place.

[Rhaxus]

spec that will either eclipse the other two, or never get used due to being worse than the other two.

by that logic blizzard should remove all but 1 spec per role for all classes. there will always be a better one than the other one/two, and it costs time and resources to work on all 2 to 3 specs

[Bigbazz]

If you're talking making it a different spec, then you'd have a point. A point I already made, and subsequently explained why it's not worth it because it's way too much work for a spec that will either eclipse the other two, or never get used due to being worse than the other two.

But if you're talking a talent like it was in WoD, then you're completely incorrect. As it starts as a Prot base, it already has higher defenses than most DPS, because it's not a DPS. It's a tank that is DPSing. It has significantly higher health and many more survival cooldowns than most other DPS.

At no point did I say DPS NEEDS the defenses of a tank. I said Gladiator had the defenses of a tank. No, a 10% damage increase compared to an actual tank wasn't large enough to make Gladiator feel like a squishy DPS.

I think we need to just highlight some points you're missing here, again.

1. It did not have better defense than Arms or Fury, arguably it had worse defense because of no die by the sword, certainly in the case where your strat relied on that ability. You're using your own logic as reasoning to ignore the actual truth and facts of the matter. Your logic might have looked sound if you were looking forward to the unknown future, but it definitely doesn't when you look at what happened in WOD and what Gladiator was.

2. You seem to have ignored half the thread showing examples of how Gladiator had relatively strong dps when compared to other dps classes, not compared to tanks. You've ignore those facts and based your argument again on false information. Gladiator had drawbacks as a spec, but from a sustained dps point of view it was not weak.

Please make your arguments on the facts, and not on the assumptions you have pulled from your imagination.

[korijenkins]

I'm glad its gone. It was horrendously annoying to see gladiator warriors in arena doing damage and taking none.

Sick of people acting like they don't have any options to choose from. You literally have 2 dps specs, play one of them.

[Bigbazz]

I'm glad its gone. It was horrendously annoying to see gladiator warriors in arena doing damage and taking none.

Sick of people acting like they don't have any options to choose from. You literally have 2 dps specs, play one of them.

Gladiator got nerfed into uselessness in Arena when they removed the Prot specific abilities among other things, and really when you compare it to Brewmasters or even Frost DKs they weren't alone. Brewmaster was a true tank in Arena able to do annoying things, Frost DK was downright overpowered and considerably harder to kill than a Gladiator.

Those were just teething issues and points of balancing that were already ironed out and fixed quite early on.

[Alidfe]

But if you're talking a talent like it was in WoD, then you're completely incorrect. As it starts as a Prot base, it already has higher defenses than most DPS, because it's not a DPS. It's a tank that is DPSing. It has significantly higher health and many more survival cooldowns than most other DPS.

And those are things you can mitigate with proper balancing. Your argument is circular.

[Deleted]

*snip*

Not sure if it is intended as such, but this reads to me as "another thing top % raiding killed off that was fun". color me surprised.

too bad Glad became nothing more then a notch on that gravestone..

[Carnedge]

If you're talking making it a different spec, then you'd have a point. A point I already made, and subsequently explained why it's not worth it because it's way too much work for a spec that will either eclipse the other two, or never get used due to being worse than the other two.

But if you're talking a talent like it was in WoD, then you're completely incorrect. As it starts as a Prot base, it already has higher defenses than most DPS, because it's not a DPS. It's a tank that is DPSing. It has significantly higher health and many more survival cooldowns than most other DPS.

At no point did I say DPS NEEDS the defenses of a tank. I said Gladiator had the defenses of a tank. No, a 10% damage increase compared to an actual tank wasn't large enough to make Gladiator feel like a squishy DPS.

Actually the passive ability that makes tanks "tankier" got disabled. So Glad had no better defensives than Fury or Arms except they had shields so they could block and had a little extra armor. A good trade off for doing less damage. But they didn't have a flat % damage reduction like Prot did and they could be crit and had less health.

[Beelzebull]

But if you're talking a talent like it was in WoD, then you're completely incorrect. As it starts as a Prot base, it already has higher defenses than most DPS, because it's not a DPS. It's a tank that is DPSing. It has significantly higher health and many more survival cooldowns than most other DPS.

At no point did I say DPS NEEDS the defenses of a tank. I said Gladiator had the defenses of a tank. No, a 10% damage increase compared to an actual tank wasn't large enough to make Gladiator feel like a squishy DPS.

This statement is wrong. You either did not play a Warrior Prot and tested this talent or your memory is simply at fault.

I been playing Warriors since the entire WOW life time and Glad even though looked and felt like prot, did not have the defenses and dmg reductions of a tank. I used to actually stay in my prot stance in BGs cause of the lack of defenses too...

I used to use Glad in PVE the time it was available. I used to enjoy it a lot even though I was not the best at it due to the high APM. I remember I did not talent into the HS build due to the APM and still i played it in PVE due to the 'coolness' factor.

[Unholyground]

If Warriors can have a single talent that switches them between a DPS prot warrior and a Tank prot warrior, I want Guardian and Feral merged.

Actually, both of those are entirely reasonable. Bring it on, Blizz!

If you chose feral affinity is was the equivalent.

[Deleted]

Lasted a couple of months, y u pining?

So much this. What the hell are you so attached for xD

[Deleted]

So much this. What the hell are you so attached for xD

Immersion? Class fantasy? Many ppl whine all the time about these, and we finally got an example, how varied combat styles a warrior can represent.

It was a new thing that added to the depth and variety of the class, and it could have lived further. But it was easier to simply remove it, because the current Legion artifact system and philosophy doesn't support 2 roles/specs with 1 weapon. (E.g. mages are a pure dps spec, yet they need 3 different weapons (and 3 relics per weapon, that's 9 slots to fill with the favor of RNG Gods) for each of their specs just to keep up the playtime.)

[Mirishka]

If we do it loud and long enough, it will be back. Like WoW: Classic.

Except there aren't hundreds of thousands of people playing illegal WoD servers just to have Gladiator stance. Maybe when that happens, we'll get it back. :P

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Immersion? Class fantasy? Many ppl whine all the time about these, and we finally got an example, how varied combat styles a warrior can represent.

It was a new thing that added to the depth and variety of the class, and it could have lived further. But it was easier to simply remove it, because the current Legion artifact system and philosophy doesn't support 2 roles/specs with 1 weapon. (E.g. mages are a pure dps spec, yet they need 3 different weapons (and 3 relics per weapon, that's 9 slots to fill with the favor of RNG Gods) for each of their specs just to keep up the playtime.)

As someone with 3 mages, one of each spec, I actually loved the degree to which they differentiated each spec with unique lore and artifacts etc.

Relics can be a pain, yes, but that's all classes - not just mages.

[Eninya]

I like how if something isn't beating something else into the dirt then it must be dead.

Glad was fun.

I played it in HFC when it was "dead". But it was fun as hell being "dead".

Actually, coming out of BRF, Gladiator was better until late heroic/early mythic HFC. It just got outscaled by Fury because Blizzard was too lazy to fix it. I actually got kicked from a guild after running Fury for all mythic BRF because I ran Gladiator during early/mid heroic HFC. It got buffed and outperformed Fury with my gear by a fair bit.

I miss having a no-RNG spec that was virtually 1:1 with performance to your sims.

[sociald1077]

Do the Mage Tower. You will find that tank specs are in fact DPS specs already.

[Aggrophobic]

Legion brought the artifact system, where you are locked to one single weapon at each of your roles/specs.

Playing a dps warrior with shield would be impossible in this system, because you would use 1 weapon for 2 roles. It would be unnecessary for a prot warrior to invest time into an other weapon, just to have an offspec dps role.

I want Gladiator's Resolve back as a talent once we get rid of this artifact weapon system, because I (and many other warriors) just need a mid-tier (aka decent) dps offspec for non-tanking situations.

Yeah, no thanks. Spec an actual DPS spec.
Gladiator stance has no place in the game and never really did.

[Deleted]

Yeah, no thanks. Spec an actual DPS spec.
Gladiator stance has no place in the game and never really did.

What is your reason, apart from being simply emotional?

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Do the Mage Tower. You will find that tank specs are in fact DPS specs already.

You have to reach a certain dps threshold (ilvl) to beat it. On the same ilvl, actual dps specs deal multiples of tank dps...

[Pandragon]

If Warriors can have a single talent that switches them between a DPS prot warrior and a Tank prot warrior, I want Guardian and Feral merged.

Actually, both of those are entirely reasonable. Bring it on, Blizz!

That's not the same thing. The warrior is either a tank or dps depending if he chooses the talent. He loses his defensive traits to dps. Where a cat could go bear and become immortal until healed back up, then go back cat. Basically still can, but not as bad as it was when Feral and Bear were the same spec. The old feral had the benefits of both DPS and Tank.