Why putting Draenor Orcs on the Alliance is a very bad idea

[Zephre]

I have a bias against horde fans that are in denial over what the horde is. I favor Alliance, i have no problem admiting that. I like playing the good guy cause i try to be a good guy. In the horde, i struggle to do that and feel like a real douche doing things like "liberating volunteers" by lying to them in order to burn down camps.

I don't know how i'm salty about void elves. I like them. Try again?

As the QQ... you may be right, difficult to quantify, but horde fans do usually come with the high and mighty posts. I thought a touché was in order. Actually, you just tried to do that with void elves right now.

The whole reaction in this thread to Draenor Orcs possibly going to the alliance is proof of case though. You didn't see a reaction this bad to undead humans or blood elves. Quite honestly, i think Alliance players are more accepting of change.

I disagree that alliance players are generally more accepting of change.

Your reference is this thread to horde players but as a frequent poster on these forums, don't tell me you suddenly forgot the high elf threads over the years and the complaining that came from those threads, to quote this and ignore the countless high elf complain threads is hypocritical.

Both sides are as bad as each other, to deny it is hypocrisy, people always have something to complain about.

[Deleted]

I disagree that alliance players are generally more accepting of change.

Your reference is this thread to horde players but as a frequent poster on these forums, don't tell me you suddenly forgot the high elf threads over the years and the complaining that came from those threads, to quote this and ignore the countless high elf complain threads is hypocritical.

Both sides are as bad as each other, to deny it is hypocrisy, people always have something to complain about.

I guess the fact that i'm happy with the void elves put a hole in your rhetoric eh?

The thing is, i don't look at everything from a faction pov. I think factions are the worst and i think player choice and customisation is the best. So, i'm in favor of everything that supports that. Be it troll paladins or alliance orcs. I don't care about perceptions people want to build for themselves. I like playing fun and interesting games and i have trouble with people coming in saying it destroys everything they believe cause more choice is being added. It's petty and selfish. So, yes, you will see me oppose that, no matter who posts it.

[Zephre]

I guess the fact that i'm happy with the void elves put a hole in your rhetoric eh?

The thing is, i don't look at everything from a faction pov. I think factions are the worst and i think player choice and customisation is the best. So, i'm in favor of everything that supports that. Be it troll paladins or alliance orcs. I don't care about perceptions people want to build for themselves. I like playing fun and interesting games and i have trouble with people coming in saying it destroys everything they believe cause more choice is being added. It's petty and selfish. So, yes, you will see me oppose that, no matter who posts it.

You being happy doesn't discount the fact there's alliance players, both here and on the WoW forums up in arms over void elves simply because they're not the high elves they wanted. But saying things about not looking at it from a faction PoV then writing things like this.

" Also, the horde fanboy tears would be delicious. If it happens i will laugh for days.
It's funny to me how they try to sell alliance as the cry babies but look at that Zandalari paladin thread. They always QQ the hardest. "

Is both hypocritical and childish.

[Deleted]

You being happy doesn't discount the fact there's alliance players, both here and on the WoW forums up in arms over void elves simply because they're not the high elves they wanted. But saying things about not looking at it from a faction PoV then writing things like this.

" Also, the horde fanboy tears would be delicious. If it happens i will laugh for days.
It's funny to me how they try to sell alliance as the cry babies but look at that Zandalari paladin thread. They always QQ the hardest. "

Is both hypocritical and childish.

In the freaking post you quoted: i have trouble with people coming in saying it destroys everything they believe cause more choice is being added.

So, yes, i will very much party at their tears. They are the ones being childish for being unable to deal with change.

Does that trigger you? Too bad.

Quite honestly, i stand by my acessment that horde's cry more. They cry over the storyline, the race/class combos despite having more druid choices, the races going to either side cause it hurts their preconceived notions. Also, the fact they can't get over how the horde ARE the bad guys. That is their function, at least on the current paradigm that no horde player is willing to see change apparantly, cause they cry at even the hint. Despite all you're saying void elves are the most popular of the allied races, so the high elf crying is really not comparable. I also didn't see i'm unsubbing" senseless threats over it.
But, i don't care about the crying. I care about the unfounded accusations and the entitlement. More choices for everyone is a good thing and i don't care in the least how that afronts anyone's personal perceptions.

[digichi]

orcs are so iconically horde... i dont see blizz throwing hands up and going 'fuck it' til 'WoW: zomg guys theres like a third faction or something' happens.

Or maybe , ironically, horde / alliance conflict is accidentally saving the world. The day the forces join will be the day azeroth implodes.

[Zephre]

So, yes, i will very much party at their tears. They are the ones being childish for being unable to deal with change.

Does that trigger you? Too bad.

Ghandi once said an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. If you act childish because others do then you're just as bad as those you rail against.

Quite honestly, i stand by my acessment that horde's cry more. They cry over the storyline, the race/class combos despite having more druid choices, the races going to either side cause it hurts their preconceived notions. Also, the fact they can't get over how the horde ARE the bad guys. That is their function, at least on the current paradigm that no horde player is willing to see change apparantly, cause they cry at even the hint. Despite all you're saying void elves are the most popular of the allied races, so the high elf crying is really not comparable. I also didn't see i'm unsubbing" senseless threats over it.
But, i don't care about the crying. I care about the unfounded accusations and the entitlement. More choices for everyone is a good thing and i don't care in the least how that afronts anyone's personal perceptions.

Another thing I disagree with, if you weren't biased you'd understand both factions are as bad as each other. This thread and high elf/void elf threads are proof of it, I don't need to try and convince you of that, it'd be futile, I know it to be true regardless of whether you do or don't. Ultimately anything I say to you is moot, you'll believe and see what you want, as will I, unfortunately for you however, there's little to indicate alliance will get orcs right now other than speculation.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Good to see this meme of a thread still going. Anyone seriously trying to make this theory sound legitimate must really be upset about something, or again have no actual clue how orcs work. Either ways it’s hilarious to read arguments that boil down to “ but it could happen!!!1!1”

[Deleted]

Plain and simple you can't have orcs on the Alliance and humans on the Horde, that would completely destroy faction identity. Also, it makes zero sense lorewise.

Horde has Humans (Undead) since launch and High Elves since TBC. the two most iconic Alliance races.

[Polarthief]

If they give the Alliance orcs they may as well dissolve the factions entirely and let everyone play together.

Yes. Please yes.

Just because the factions want to fight a pointless and stupid war that causes countless, wasted, lives, let the players at least decide who they want to be friendly with.

[Deleted]

Good to see this meme of a thread still going. Anyone seriously trying to make this theory sound legitimate must really be upset about something, or again have no actual clue how orcs work. Either ways it’s hilarious to read arguments that boil down to “ but it could happen!!!1!1”

Like an Alliance Hero leading the Horde, right?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Like an Alliance Hero leading the Horde, right?

An Alliance hero who is not the same at all that she once was.

If you seriously think Saurfang would not only join the Alliance, but take orcs with him to fight the Horde, you have no grasp what so ever of Saurfang.

[Lochton]

The entire basis of the "Orcs on Alliance" argument is that Saurfang, an orc, says he wants to speaks with Anduin instead of running away.

That's it.

Wait, is that what this whole theorizing is built on?! That is like saying wolves are allied with sheep because they were in the same inclosure.

[Zephre]

Wait, is that what this whole theorizing is built on?! That is like saying wolves are allied with sheep because they were in the same inclosure.

That and Sylvanas being mean to him during the fall of lordaeron.

[Deleted]

An Alliance hero who is not the same at all that she once was.

If you seriously think Saurfang would not only join the Alliance, but take orcs with him to fight the Horde, you have no grasp what so ever of Saurfang.

The Horde is nowhere near what the Horde was. There's an Elf leading it for one. And I'm not talking about Saurfang, I'm talking about Draenor Orcs. I don't see how they would join the people who executed the Orc (Garrosh) who saved them from the Fel Corruption. Fel Orcs will always be Horde.

- - - Updated - - -

Wait, is that what this whole theorizing is built on?! That is like saying wolves are allied with sheep because they were in the same inclosure.

Well, Horde actually is. It's Orcs, Tauren, Trolls allied with High Elves, Undead Humans.

[Hallowseve17]

Horde has Humans (Undead) since launch and High Elves since TBC. the two most iconic Alliance races.

That's true, yes, the forsaken are just undead humans and the blood elves are essentially high elves, but those two races are still part of the Horde identity, at least now they are, they have earned their spot.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The Horde is nowhere near what the Horde was. There's an Elf leading it for one. And I'm not talking about Saurfang, I'm talking about Draenor Orcs. I don't see how they would join the people who executed the Orc (Garrosh) who saved them from the Fel Corruption. Fel Orcs will always be Horde.

- - - Updated - - -



Well, Horde actually is. It's Orcs, Tauren, Trolls allied with High Elves, Undead Humans.

And if you honestly think Draeneor orcs are going to join the Alliance, you have no grasp of the orcs either. You think they would join the Alliance, just because the Horde killed the guy that was revealed to be tricking and using them just as much as the legion would have?

The idea is so absurd.

[Syegfryed]

You can stop pretending you know shit. OpieOP.

HAHAHAHA and you want orcs on alliance, and i don't know shit, this is pretty fucking gold

The only argument i saw in this thread was - Humans and Orcs are exclusive races for their factions - and its invalid one.

stop pretending you are serious, this is all about High elves, those alliance boys, they never give up

[Zulkhan]

A faction in this game is about more then the races that make each one up. It has been for awhile now. Why are you so hell bent on faction identity as your defense?

Because Blizzard says so, pretty much. They admitted themselves that the Orc vs Human conflict is and will always remain the main core of the game. And if you believe this has changed somehow, BfA's cover says hi.

The Legion had a hand in making the Horde what it is today. In AU Dreanor that never happened. The Horde of Azeroth was never created. As Grom screamed at the end. Dreanor is Free! The events that took place changed those Orcs for the better.

...and?

Their way will not be to follow the Banshee Queen Sylvanas. Not a chance in hell. She would need to die or step down as Warchief first. When that happens I will say Dreanor Orcs for the Horde.

And you claim that based on what? Frostwolves and Laughing Skull worked well enough with a Horde led by a Troll. Sylvanas? Her being the main source of Alliance's tears is going to matter jackshit to Draenor Orcs, even more so when she earned her place in the very legitimate way the Iron Horde would have done in more "stable" circumstances: the previous Warchief passing the mantle to a candidate of his exclusive choice, like Orgrim did with Thrall and Thrall with Garrosh. Orc tradition at its finest.

"Former Enemies"

Grom battles alongside Khadgar and Yrel

Sounds to me like we got some Brown Orcs coming to the Alliance.

You're somehow capable to forget that the Horde alone established an actual relationship with Draenor Orcs namely the Frostwolves and Laughing Skull.

And yeah, is not like Durotan himself, the "Horde representative" was alongside Grom as well during WoD's final cinematic.

Also, the humans and orcs that give it identity are still there. These are different Orcs.

Different because they're brown? Brown Orcs have been part of the Horde since TBC. But if you mean the fact regarding Draenor Orcs coming from an alternate timeline, they're indeed different: they're more savage and ignorant of Azeroth's history than even fucking Garrosh was. Man, what a fitting allied race for the blue team.

The horde has had human undead for ages and I saw no identity complaints.

Take a look at the issue you somehow managed to miss despite being addressed in this very thread a couple of times already.

Or should I say that ripping off the skin and a bit of flesh isn't enough to make them different?

Oh I don't really know. Pick a Forsaken and a Human and see how similar they look. Then pick a brown and green Orc. You should have seen the issue at this point. Not to mention the Horde has brown Orcs in its ranks already and the Mag'har, the first brown Orcs ever introduced, have always been Horde.

To every genius who intends to keep dragging Forsaken into this, I'll offer only two words from now on: Pale Orcs. That's the fitting addition to compensate your "loss".

Stop being so scared of change. Horde will get something else in return if this happens. You should be excited about what that can be.

Scared? Hell, I'm actually shocked that I have to address this embarassing topic unironically.

1 - Humans fought green (corrupted) orcs. Its important detail that many people tend to ignore.

Important? Lol. Thrall, the only Orc who ever attempted to negotiate peace with Humans was green while one of the worst orcish villains of all time (even more so for the Alliance, who Garrosh hated since day 1) was brown. Go and tell me how something bland like skin colour is going to matter for shit.

Forsaken and Blood Elves. I'm serious. Horde have dead (corrupted) humans since Vanilla. In TBC Blizzard crossed this line again by giving another iconic Alliance race to Horde - Blood Elves. You can argue for Lore reasons why they joined the Horde but we all know a real reason - they gave Horde elves to boost faction's population. These two races (Forsaken and Blood Elves) also became new face of faction.

High Elves were nowhere as much iconic for the Alliance as Orcs are for the Horde, for obvious reasons (not to mention how the decision to give Blood Elves to the Horde triggered a whole decade of whining, whining to which Blizzard partially caved in with Void Elves). And Forsaken are not Humans anymore. They're so fucked up that any Elf looks more Human than them. As I said several times already, Forsaken are comparable to Humans much like Pale Orcs are to regular Orcs. Using Forsaken to justify freaking brown Orcs isn't any better from those who used them to justify fucking High Elves.

Stop acting like orcs are face of current Horde. No they isn't. Focus changed to dead people and blood elves. The only thing is left is name of faction. Lok'tar Ogar my ass! Fuck the Honor! (c).

Horseshit. The story occasionally shifting its focus does not change the game's roots. I mean, it's not like BfA's cover have a Human and Orc facing each other and BfA's cinematic showed Orcs everywhere.

Brown (uncorrupted) orcs joining Alliance? Yes it can happen. AU Draenor orcs and MU humans don't share bloody war. We saw at the end of WoD that Grommash joined Yrel and Durotar to rebuild and preserve peace on Draenor.

Top gold comedy for mentioning that while somehow missing the issue. Grommash joining Yrel, the Alliance representative, means nothing since he equally joined the Horde one, aka Durotan.

The actual difference though, and please follow me on this, is that the Horde spent a good chunk of WoD establishing alliances with Draenor Orcs, aka Frostwolves and Laughing Skull, where the Alliance was allegedly hostile to all of them (except the few moments where Durotan and Yrel fought side by side but that was more natives working together than "Draenor Orcs working with the Alliance", while the Horde is the actual faction that constantly worked alongside his clan).

Did you see the pattern? Horde have green orcs and dead humans. I mean they have corrupted versions of races. Alliance have living humans - uncorrupted. So i believe if brown orcs join Alliance it will follow the pattern.

Someone really needs to grab and throw his brain into a trashcan to see mere green-skinned Orcs and fucking dead, risen and twisted Humans into anything even vaguely comparable.

PS Alliance players swallowed already 3 nasty pills - blood elves, nighborne and void elves (Blizzard way to say fuck you to high elves fans). Horde players please stop crying and shout how "Alliance getting brown and straight standing orcs" would be unfair. If Blizzard do it - just swallow as we did.

It's not unfair, it's nonsense. And I'm not going to accept deliberate nonsense because of a few Alliance players suffering from either eternal victimhood or those who believe this thing would be fun to "enjoy the Horde players' salt/tears" and whatever. None of these retarded reasons should matter for shit.

But this is just arguing for arguing's sake. In reality, I'm just baffled than this baseless and stretched theory is taken that seriously despite the "hints" supposedly meant to suggest it are fucking forced and ridiculous.

Pretty good post.

Indeed, implying the Alliance would be fine with brown Orcs because they're brown but somehow forgetting that Garrosh and several of his loyalists were brown is one hell of an argument.

I simply think it would make the story that much more exciting.

Also, the horde fanboy tears would be delicious. If it happens i will laugh for days.

Yeah, this is the actual pattern I've seen so far.

And you even want to be taken seriously.

Good to see this meme of a thread still going. Anyone seriously trying to make this theory sound legitimate must really be upset about something, or again have no actual clue how orcs work. Either ways it’s hilarious to read arguments that boil down to “ but it could happen!!!1!1”

A guaranteed mix of both, I'm sure.

That and Sylvanas being mean to him during the fall of lordaeron.

Actually, that was just interpreted as an event reinforcing the theory. There were people who genuinely supported this idiocy just by seeing Saurfang going to Anduin. It's fucking hilarious.

The Horde is nowhere near what the Horde was. There's an Elf leading it for one. And I'm not talking about Saurfang, I'm talking about Draenor Orcs. I don't see how they would join the people who executed the Orc (Garrosh) who saved them from the Fel Corruption. Fel Orcs will always be Horde.

Yeeeeeah because the Alliance didn't totally spent the entirety of WoD butchering Draenor Orcs alongside the Horde, with the "minor" difference that the Horde, at least, established actual relationships with a couple of Draenor clans.

[Deleted]

Ghandi once said an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. If you act childish because others do then you're just as bad as those you rail against.


Another thing I disagree with, if you weren't biased you'd understand both factions are as bad as each other. This thread and high elf/void elf threads are proof of it, I don't need to try and convince you of that, it'd be futile, I know it to be true regardless of whether you do or don't. Ultimately anything I say to you is moot, you'll believe and see what you want, as will I, unfortunately for you however, there's little to indicate alliance will get orcs right now other than speculation.

I play a Ret paladin. My job is to deliver back to those that dish out. My personality is very much like that aswell. Deal with it. I'm not out to be better i'm out to be fair.

As for the other point. Nope, you just don't want to see it.
Also, you prove me right again. I never said i personally wanted Orcs, but i am happy if i see restrictions for player choice fall. It afronts you, not me. Wether alliance get them or not, i will not QQ. The same can't be said about other, less mature people. Who has the bias buddy? Yeah... not me.

[Reydan]

I'm at the point where I think Faction Pride in a Videogame is retarded. So think you should be any race on either faction.

Well that is good for you, but then this game isn't for you. Because the faction war will remain.

O and Draenor Orcs won't join the Alliance, it will never happen.