Got two questions 'bout Vol'Jin and Thrall..

[Schattenlied]

1. What happened with the prophecy that the spirits showed to Vol'Jin before he crowned Sylvanas Warchief of the Horde and died? Didn't they tell him she will be the one to do good for the Horde? Isn't she presented as this evil-like "I'll do what suits me best" character?

This one is easy to answer...


The Loa are extremely self serving, she was the right choice for the Loa, not for the rest of us...

In particular, one of the Loa Vol'jin worships and has contact with frequently, Bwonsamdi, the Loa of death, who was specifically the Loa who gave Vol'jin his Shadow hunter abilities, wanted Vol'jin to create as much war and strife as he could for no other reason than to send the souls of those who died in that conflict to Bwonsamdi so that he could become more powerful... I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Bwonsamdi was the one that recommended, or more likely demanded (since in death Vol'jin's soul would belong to Bwonsamdi, and defying him on death's door would not go well for Vol'jin) her being Warchief.

The Loa are not good and benevolent beings, they are selfish assholes with little to no regard for the lives of mortals.

[Oneirophobia]

sorry i did not know the name of it its Mak'Gora but yea its no armor and no magic

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https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mak%27gora here is the information

Would you read your own links?

There are no stated rules on the use of magic, but, having been used in multiple Mak'gora duels in different stories and settings, it seems to be permitted.

Body armor is forbidden. This is a shaky rule, as some 'spur of the moment' Mak'gora involve both fighters wearing armor.

Every single Mak'Gora in game involved body army both fighters except the ones with Garrosh and Cairne and Garrosh and Thrall.

The rules of a Mak'gora are ill-defined and inconsistent, and seem to change with each depiction. The only consistent theme is that the pair fight to the death or until submission.

This is really the only part of the article that is relevant. Blizzard is inconsistent as per usual.

[Enkrypt]

Thralls story looks to be mirroring Chris Metzen's real life story.

Got stressed out, left his job and spends more time with his family.

I'm pretty sure that was done by design. It seems to be a subtle tip-of-the-hat towards Metzen leaving Blizzard.

[ace007007]

Would you read your own links?



Every single Mak'Gora in game involved body army both fighters except the ones with Garrosh and Cairne and Garrosh and Thrall.



This is really the only part of the article that is relevant. Blizzard is inconsistent as per usual.

Each participant is allowed one weapon. Whether using a shield, dual wielding, or using magic as a 'weapon' is allowed are not specified. again THRALL HAD DOOM HAMMER used some elemental of earth and sky on garrosh bro thats 2 MAGIC is 1 Doom Hammer is 2 thats cheating

[Rosefern]

sorry i did not know the name of it its Mak'Gora but yea its no armor and no magic

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mak%27gora here is the information

I thought the basic rule that causes issue with the Garrosh v Thrall dual is:
Each participant is allowed one weapon. Whether using a shield, dual wielding, or using magic as a 'weapon' is allowed are not specified.

Thrall used Doomhammer as his weapon, but ultimately used shaman magic (a second weapon) to kill Garrosh

[Enkrypt]

Each participant is allowed one weapon. Whether using a shield, dual wielding, or using magic as a 'weapon' is allowed are not specified. again THRALL HAD DOOM HAMMER used some elemental of earth and sky on garrosh bro thats 2 MAGIC is 1 Doom Hammer is 2 thats cheating

Lol, you're literally copy and pasting from a Wiki, aren't you? I noticed it in your earlier post.

[Eazy]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mak%27gora here is the information

Yeah, I know that he didn't cheat. That was my comment about.

Would you read your own links?

From the source he provided there's "trivia" you can read about above...

[ace007007]

Yeah, I know that he didn't cheat. That was my comment about.





From the source he provided there's "trivia" you can read about above...

People go look at the warcraft movie, where guldan vs durotan fought. and they had Mak'Gora, where guldan started draining durotan and Ogrim was like he is cheating
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/12130063184

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVDJJre_OM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etWWIRlDW4M

Mak'Gora is a fair duel between two people , NO armor, 1 Weapon your choice Magic, Sword, Shield. thrall uses doomhammer ( full armor) and magic. that is cheating

[iamthedevil]

People go look at the warcraft movie, where guldan vs durotan fought. and they had Mak'Gora, where guldan started draining durotan and Ogrim was like he is cheating
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/12130063184

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVDJJre_OM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etWWIRlDW4M

Mak'Gora is a fair duel between two people , NO armor, 1 Weapon your choice Magic, Sword, Shield. thrall uses doomhammer ( full armor) and magic. that is cheating

The rules are made up before the event, and since we never were given the rules, this is all bullshit. Even what I just said is bullshit. See?

He used magic in the prewrath mak'gora as well. Garrosh didn't give a shit then either.

[ace007007]

Yeah, I know that he didn't cheat. That was my comment about.





From the source he provided there's "trivia" you can read about above...

you can use magic, you can use all of it. but you get one choice. Magic or weapon. Armor or Weapon. Garrosh went leather pants, axe. Trall went FULL IRON MAN, DOOM HAMMER, and Magic. thrall and garrosh fought 2 times at full everything. 3rd time thrall cheated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA6DvBvUQPk Fight1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAGroQPtSvg Fight2

This is how Honorable Garrosh is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdN5qSRguc0

[Broken Fox]

Even if Thrall did cheat, which I don't think he did, I very much doubt the elements would give a shit about the Mak'Gora rules anyway. Thrall lost his powers cause he was lost spiritually.

I don't think either of them cared about any rules at that point anyway. It wasn't an "honor" duel it was a fight to the death. There was no restraint or respect. They both just wanted to obliterate each other.

[Enkrypt]

you can use magic, you can use all of it. but you get one choice. Magic or weapon. Armor or Weapon. Garrosh went leather pants, axe. Trall went FULL IRON MAN, DOOM HAMMER, and Magic. thrall and garrosh fought 2 times at full everything. 3rd time thrall cheated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA6DvBvUQPk Fight1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAGroQPtSvg Fight2

This is how Honorable Garrosh is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdN5qSRguc0

Thrall didn't cheat, man. That's what we call headcanon.

I wouldn't hardly consider the movie Warcraft as canon for mak'gora, let alone anything.

[Deleted]

Even if Thrall did cheat, which I don't think he did, I very much doubt the elements would give a shit about the Mak'Gora rules anyway. Thrall lost his powers cause he was lost spiritually.

I don't think either of them cared about any rules at that point anyway. It wasn't an "honor" duel it was a fight to the death. There was no restraint or respect. They both just wanted to obliterate each other.

To be honest, from everthing I read I believe your comment sounds the most logical. From what I know Thrall and Garrosh had a very deep bestfriends-like connection when they were younger, similar to their fathers'. Thrall trusted him with so much, even his beloved New Horde. But Garrosh's explodey temper and thirst for war have been filling Thrall with regret slowly through time. Having to ultimately kill the one person he though was his friend and worthy of being Warchief has broken him on a spiritual level, so much that he is now unable to use his magic.

[Deleted]

People go look at the warcraft movie, where guldan vs durotan fought. and they had Mak'Gora, where guldan started draining durotan and Ogrim was like he is cheating
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/12130063184

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVDJJre_OM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etWWIRlDW4M

Mak'Gora is a fair duel between two people , NO armor, 1 Weapon your choice Magic, Sword, Shield. thrall uses doomhammer ( full armor) and magic. that is cheating

You know that casters often need some kind of a focus to execute their magic? Like Gandalf and his staff. There is a reason why Wormtongue wanted the guard to take his staff away when Gandalf came to Meduseld in Rohan. Or the wands in the Harry Potter books / movies. For me, Thrall using Doomhammer was nothing more than a tool for his primary weapon, and this is elemental / nature magic.

[ace007007]

You know that casters often need some kind of a focus to execute their magic? Like Gandalf and his staff. There is a reason why Wormtongue wanted the guard to take his staff away when Gandalf came to Meduseld in Rohan. Or the wands in the Harry Potter books / movies. For me, Thrall using Doomhammer was nothing more than a tool for his primary weapon, and this is elemental / nature magic.

again thrall went full armor Doom Hammer, full elemental of earth outfit and also used magic. its 3 things compared to Garrosh who had pants and axe video one shows when the dueled before WOTLK full everything thrall started getting hammered by garrosh, video two shows how garrosh can whip him with out his elemental magic, if it was full melee brawl. now the 3rd fight thrall had the upper hand, which is again Hammer, Armor, and Elemental, where Garrosh had Gore Howl and leather pants

Again MAK Gora is an equal fight between two people, a noble duel, you cant have a duel when one person has an advantage.

the agreement is as its made. to be fair and equal, if you saw the Warcraft movie. guldan vs durotan they both went fist and no armor, now guldan started draining durotan that is cheating. now the diffrence between Guldan and Thrall is that Guldan is dead, and evil. Thrall did not show honor to Mak'Gora when he vs garrosh

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[QUOTE=Enkrypt;48942098]Thrall didn't cheat, man. That's what we call headcanon.

I wouldn't hardly consider the movie Warcraft as canon for mak'gora, let alone anything.[/QUOTE


maybe he didnt cheat but he, did not fallow Mak'Gora, which is an unfairness thrall full armor, magic, doomhammer. Garrosh leather pants and axe, if you are still not seeing the unfairness. The worse he also did is this Garrosh was like a son to thrall, since grom helped him, he did not teach him, help him, show him how to lead, then killed him. Again Thrall cheated for having full armor. you cant have a fair fight if you have an advantage. Think of you sir your self vs Mike Tyson in a boxing match, where you are full metal armor. people are also saying he needs a hammer to channel magic, he threw the hammer away, went blood lust, earth bind, and lighting stormed, its the same thing as enhance shaman vs warrior, but the warrior is not wearing plate armor.

[Enkrypt]

maybe he didnt cheat but he, did not fallow Mak'Gora, which is an unfairness thrall full armor, magic, doomhammer. Garrosh leather pants and axe, if you are still not seeing the unfairness. The worse he also did is this Garrosh was like a son to thrall, since grom helped him, he did not teach him, help him, show him how to lead, then killed him. Again Thrall cheated for having full armor. you cant have a fair fight if you have an advantage. Think of you sir your self vs Mike Tyson in a boxing match, where you are full metal armor. people are also saying he needs a hammer to channel magic, he threw the hammer away, went blood lust, earth bind, and lighting stormed, its the same thing as enhance shaman vs warrior, but the warrior is not wearing plate armor.

Well, when it's widely accepted that he didn't cheat or break any mak'gora rules, and you're the only saying he did, I'm going with Blizzard on this one instead of ace007007.

Garrosh was a Warrior. Thrall was a Shaman. If magic were restricted, that would give Garrosh an hugely unfair advantage. And I think you're giving WAY too much credit towards his "armor" and Doomhammer. Either way, I still think it was completely fine what he did. And if Blizzard agrees, I'm with them. 'Nuff said.

[T33]

perhaps sylvanas had reached out to both Bwonsamdi AND Helya?

I was thinking more along the lines of: Some Loa could benefit from the souls produced from an all out faction war, and thus wanted a warchief that would bring them this war.

[Troggdor]

I was thinking more along the lines of: Some Loa could benefit from the souls produced from an all out faction war, and thus wanted a warchief that would bring them this war.

I like that idea better than my own lol

[Psykho]

No idea on the first, and I don't think anyone will know until maybe during BfA if Vol'jin's spirit does show up again.


The second? Shaman class hall covers this a bit, especially the enhancement artifact quest. The elements do not answer Thrall anymore, Doomhammer is just a dead weight in his hand. He's unable to fight as a shaman, and went on a journey to atone or something. Aggra is chilling in the shaman class hall though, so who knows where he did go.

I think I have an Idea where Thrall went, We see Aggra at the Maelstrom, but not Thrall or her kids, Thralls probably doing dad things

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Well, when it's widely accepted that he didn't cheat or break any mak'gora rules, and you're the only saying he did, I'm going with Blizzard on this one instead of ace007007.

Garrosh was a Warrior. Thrall was a Shaman. If magic were restricted, that would give Garrosh an hugely unfair advantage. And I think you're giving WAY too much credit towards his "armor" and Doomhammer. Either way, I still think it was completely fine what he did. And if Blizzard agrees, I'm with them. 'Nuff said.

Maybe Thrall is disconnected from the elements because he feels guilty for what Garrosh became

[McFuu]

1) Vol'jin spirit is going to be in BFA, he might had made a mistake or got tricked by some bad loa in to making her warchief. Since she is bad terms with the alliance. while we fight maybe something is happening in the background and it might be almost to late to fix it. or we will fix it and demote her and SAURFANG will be the next chief.

2) Who cares about thrall, he brought shame to the horde. in WOD he fought against Garrosh in Mok Nathal (no armor, no weapons, no magic) thrall had his armor and used magic. He lost his honor maybe he is trying to get it back. IMO thrall gets his honor back by getting forgiveness from the draenor orcs and recruits them in the process for cheating against garrosh.

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Hakkar the Soulflayer, the Blood God[2] is a malevolent and destructive loa notably worshipped by the Gurubashi trolls, at one point even controlling the Gurubashi Empire's fallen capital of Zul'Gurub. He is known in the troll pantheon as the Loa of Blood. There is bad loa what happens if voljin gets used.

Vol'jin isn't just some troll, he is extremely familiar with the Loa's. He knows the difference between them and it would be very difficult to trick him.