Why arming teachers is not the answer.

[Ghostpanther]

Is it just me or did it seem like half of the kids at the White House listening session came from the special ed classes...


Yes we are in the full-blown Idiocracy era.

It's just you. Then again, did the CNN town-hall meeting seem to represent only one side of the spectrum of the crowd to me? I think we all are guilty to some degree of looking thru our own colored glasses.

[RaoBurning]

You also need to ensure that said teachers have the right mindset to not shoot the wrong person. Just imagine the outcry if a teacher is startled by a panicked kid fleeing from a shooter and shoots that one instead.
What you say might happen more often than people think, but it is certainly not the norm Most people in this world are simply not equipped mentally to go to work every day and have to fear that any kid making a rash movement might be trying to kill them.

Just building on this a bit: There was a fight at my work today. When there's action, kids either move toward the spectacle or away, usually quickly and in groups, so it's damned hard to figure out the source of any given incident without being right on top of things as they start. If you're not right there at the onset, you have to plow through hordes of excited/scared children to figure out what's going on, and that's not really a recipe for accurate threat assessment.

At least in my narrow-ass hallways.

Edit: there were actually 2 near-fights and 1 actual brawl, turns out.

[Kiri]

Just building on this a bit: There was a fight at my work today. When there's action, kids either move toward the spectacle or away, usually quickly and in groups, so it's damned hard to figure out the source of any given incident without being right on top of things as they start. If you're not right there at the onset, you have to plow through hordes of excited/scared children to figure out what's going on, and that's not really a recipe for accurate threat assessment.

At least in my narrow-ass hallways.

Yeah, even if I knew how to use a gun, I personally wouldn't even be able to imagine sorting this kind of situation out. On the flip-side, Trump seems to want to turn this into a deterrent, the argument being that shooters will know someone has a gun, but not who. As such, those teachers would also have to be paranoid about all those kids coming their way actually being the shooter, trying to get a drop on them, turning an already stressful situation even worse.

[Deleted]

So I have seen this before as an "answer" to US school shootings but to hear it from the President himself is just moronic (though I don't know why it surprises me). I just don't understand how arming teachers is supposed to make anyone safer, if anything it just makes things worse for several reasons.

1. It makes teachers target. If someone wants to go on a rampage in a school it just means that teachers become primary targets, strike first and the fact that the teacher has a gun does not remove the bullets from his/her chest.

2. What about what the teachers want? People get into teaching for many reasons and none of them are to carry a gun and stop school shootings. You might argue that it's not about what the teacher wants, its about keeping the kids safe, but is it safe or practical to give a hesitant person a gun?

3. Teachers shouldn't have to carry guns. Guns are the cause of the trouble in the first place, adding more to the situation is just asking for trouble.

The obvious answer is to protect your children, not your antiquated rights. People say it's part of the constitution so can't be changed, you mean like the 18th amendment? The fact is just because some long dead guy thought something was a good idea, does not make it a good idea. 7 school shootings in the first 7 weeks of 2018 is a huge problem and if you want to solve it by throwing more guns at it just to protect your right you are nothing but a paranoid zealot.

In the 200 odd years since the 2nd amendment was created, there has never been a need for a militia to destroy an insurrection/slave rebellion or to fight a military coup, which was it's intended use. The 2nd amendment has only ever been used to murder and maim other citizens for various reasons and justify the action.

No other civilised country in the world needs a law/right like this, so why does the US? The so called "greatest" country in the world, and lots of it's own citizens are so afraid of each other that they can't feel safe without a deadly weapon to protect themselves. That's just sad.

Of course it’s not a solution but it means they get to sell more guns and spread more fear, selling more guns. Those in power don’t give a fuck because they’re in the NRA and gun industry’s pockets.
That people even need to be told that this is a bad idea blows my fucking mind. They really must be pouring some shit into your water to make people even suggest this.

[ipoststuff]

I can't believe this actually turned into a debate. WTF is wrong with USA that they elected trump.

[Minikin]

I'm glad I grew up in a country that wasn't a literal warzone.

Right?! I went to school in Pakistan, Karachi and Islamabad. Besides the casual terror hotspot and wars happening in Afghanistan and Kashmir issue with India not once did I feel unsafe at school due to some kid taking a gun out and shooting up a place.

I don't understand this whole "must have gun to stop the government from overreaching on me"

[Daws]

So arm the teachers and blame video game violence. Suppose at least we're only about 2 weeks away from this all being swept under the carpet so none of that will actually go anywhere.

[Kazer]

You can't force teachers to be armed and that would never be a real plan. You could give the option to carry if properly trained and the teachers carry concealed.

You would be surprised what a well trained person can do when faced with immanent death. Humans want to survive and a teacher could pull the trigger against a shooter if their life was in immediate danger. I don't think its reasonable to think a school teacher is going to try and go hunt an active shooter. But if the shooter came into their classroom and they likely eliminate the threat. Thus saving lives.

[Draco-Onis]

You can't force teachers to be armed and that would never be a real plan. You could give the option to carry if properly trained and the teachers carry concealed.

You would be surprised what a well trained person can do when faced with immanent death. Humans want to survive and a teacher could pull the trigger against a shooter if their life was in immediate danger. I don't think its reasonable to think a school teacher is going to try and go hunt an active shooter. But if the shooter came into their classroom and they likely eliminate the threat. Thus saving lives.

Guns do not turn people into experienced crisis management experts, they are more likely to get themselves shot by swat or shoot more innocent kids. You would need to train the teacher for crisis situations like these for years and not to mention we are basically asking teachers to become bodyguards on top of everything else while cutting their funding every year.

[Hilhen7]

You had an armed officer on the scene and he did nothing, but you expect the teachers to act?

Arming teachers won't work. Why don't we just mount gun turrets in every room LOL

I'm sure the NRA could make a profit selling and installing the turrets,

[WiggleTillFriday]

I can't believe this actually turned into a debate. WTF is wrong with USA that they elected trump.

A few things here, School shootings have been happening long before Trump was pres. at least he is pushing for change.

The debate is who should be armed, because for gods sake having gun free schools is not working. Someone needs to be armed and protecting our children. I vote no on it being the teachers, let them do their job and teach. Have trained armed personal willing to shoot back and we all know that will deter a lot of this, not all but a lot.
Something needs to change and we know your not taking guns away anytime soon, so for the near future bring in capable ppl who can help protect our future.

[Draco-Onis]

A few things here, School shootings have been happening long before Trump was pres. at least he is pushing for change.

The debate is who should be armed, because for gods sake having gun free schools is not working. Someone needs to be armed and protecting our children. I vote no on it being the teachers, let them do their job and teach. Have trained armed personal willing to shoot back and we all know that will deter a lot of this, not all but a lot.
Something needs to change and we know your not taking guns away anytime soon, so for the near future bring in capable ppl who can help protect our future.

Gun free zones doesn't mean no guns Parkland had an armed officer.

[WiggleTillFriday]

Gun free zones doesn't mean no guns Parkland had an armed officer.

Like I said, willing to shoot back would have saved some lives here, not all but def. some

[LaserChild9]

Guns are allowed and available in every 1st world country just as easily as in the US

Well.. No. I have been to several 1st world countries, including my own and I have never seen anywhere that you can buy guns except bb guns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

That's the first thing that pops up in google when typing in "UK mass shooting" I didn't have to put in 2010, google offered it, I'm not even gonna go on about the other ones and other countries.

Now sure, there are way less masss shooting than in America, and they have less guns, and it's all better. I'm absolutely not saying the opposite. But when they put theirs laws into motion they didn't have to deal with so many pro-gun people, they don't have an amendment about it (actually I don't even know and didn't bother to check but I assume they never had a 2nd amendment equivalent) and they don't have to deal with well over 350 million guns spread around an even bigger area to cover. The situation in America is more complicated, that's all I'm saying, there's more than just "nice people against guns" VS "evil pro-gun people" and "all violence would disappear if we had less guns" nonsense you know =/.

So I fucked up, I will concede there has been at least 1 mass shooting in the UK since, but that's still way less than the 200+ in the US so it shows that gun laws actually do work.

No other civilised country has no speed limit. Just Germany. Great reason to force Germany to have no speed limit right? I mean people have died on the autobahn. Just because other countries are weenies is not a reason to take our rights. The fact is that if more people in schools were carrying guns they could kill mass shooters. You won't take our gun rights away, but keep crying, liberal tears oil our guns.

When the autobahn kills a school bus of children on average once a month for 2 decades you may have a point but all you are doing is deflecting, lets be honest, there is no comparison. The autobahn fatality rate of 1.6 deaths per billion travel-kilometres compared favorably with the 4.6 rate on urban streets and 6.5 rate on rural roads. There are less than half the number of deaths per 1 billion km travelled on the autobahn than a standard urban road. You are just trying to make it sound bad.

the teachers shouldnt have guns. there should be armed guards at every school sitting just inside the entrance of the school.

It's a school, it should not be considered a dangerous place at all! Kids and parents shouldn't worry that today may be the last time they see each other because the kids have to survive school. If there were no guns, there would be no school shootings, it really is not rocket science.

1. Right, because teachers are never targeted during a shooting. Leaving them unarmed will keep them safe.

2&3. What about the teachers who WANT to be armed?

Rights aren't antiquated, fucktard. And the Constitution does not give people rights. It recognizes the rights that people have just by being people.

1.Learn to read 'fucktard', I said it makes them primary targets, as in, "before I shoot this school up I must take that teacher over there by surprise and blow his brains out because the government says he probably has a gun to take me down". If the government do this, the very next death in a school shooting will be a teacher, quickly followed by that teachers students. Leaving them unarmed makes them equal targets meaning they at least have some chance of survival.

2. I wouldn't want someone teaching my kids who actually wanted to be armed around them. Its a fucking school not a fucking warzone.

3. Anything can be antiquated, it means outdated, as in, you don't fucking need it anymore. Give me 1 logical reason you still need the 2nd amendment, NEED not WANT. I will give you a tip though, "protection from others with guns" is also not a valid argument because it's a vicious cycle you have a gun to protect from them so they have a gun to protect from you, nobody wins.

Because you have no idea what you are talking about? When it comes to the organization of the US Military? Or what a Militia is?

Well you certainly showed me, thanks for all that helpful info and for leaving us in no doubt that you know what you are talking about. If you are gonna correct someone at least fucking do it properly, and idiot can someone else is wrong.

1.) If it's concealed, how do you know which teacher it is? I doubt it'd be public knowledge as to which teacher would be carrying. It would be a deterrent - if a thief wants to rob a house and they see an ADT sign in front, they're probably less likely to commit theft of that house. Likewise, could be applied in this situation. If the kid knew his plan could be countered, might likely reduce the odds to carry it out in the first place.

2.) What if it's voluntarily? At any point, was it said that it would be required? I thought he stated it would be 20% of all teachers, only those who have the right training and background could.

3.) Guns are not the trouble in the first place. What if the shooter carried a bomb in his bag instead of a gun. There are other ways to cause harm, as demonstrated in the Boston Marathon race or Oklahoma City bombing. You could also in some sense look at Columbine as they used bombs to distract the cops and also planted bombs elsewhere that failed to detonate. I would agree that assault rifles are unnecessary....maybe prohibit selling or raising age to purchase. Then again, drugs are illegal, but still can be obtained.....

1. Does it matter if it's concealed or non existent? The fact is, if you tell the world that teachers now have the opportunity to carry a gun, if someone is gonna shoot up a school, are they really gonna take that risk that the teacher does not have one?

2. See point one. Is a shooter gonna go "well, it is voluntary and its only 20% of all teachers, this one might be in the other 80%, maybe this teacher does not have a gun, I wont shoot them"?

3. That's deflection. You basically just went "No, its not guns... Look over here! There was a bomb over here! Ignore the guns!" We aren't talking about bombs, we are talking about guns and the simple fact is you cant shoot a gun at someone if you don't have a gun. I accept that guns are not good or bad they are inanimate objects, but when you have this many mass shootings, you cant just go "It wasn't the guns fault, he didn't hurt anybody!"

Guessing that either youre not American and youre pretending to be, or some type of liberal, and pretending to be American while pushing your silly Euro-lite on Americans. Eifher way..

You lost all credibility here with this sentence. In this sentence you decided you didn't know what I was so you were going to blindly insult every group you could think of that didn't like guns. Not American. Some type of Liberal. European. You wanna add a few more generic groups in there in case you didn't get it right? You and people like you are the scum of the earth because rather than have a debate or be logical you get up on your high and mighty "muh guns and muh rights" bandwagon and hurl insults rather than actually considering the fact that American children are dying because you want your fucking guns. If it was your kid that was a victim in a school shooting would you just wanna throw more guns at the problem? Don't know why I asked because the answer is probably 'yes' because you are a fucking moron.

Now you eurotrash run along and sign away your freedom for the ability to be locked away for stating facts on social media even your government supports while train bombs, bus bombs, bus attacks, public gas-lighting, acid attacks, nail bombs, etc are your daily life. Im sure Churchill would be excited knowing his countrymen turned into a group of self righteous imposing, limp wristed poofs and that he fought a war against a tyrannical government who employeed the same tactics you cherish.

At least his countrymen didn't go about shooting all the kids in schools or people at concerts. Which do you think he would have preferred? A country that values it's kids and their well being, or a country full of people like you so wrapped up in your own need to be on a power trip with all your guns coz it makes you feel like a real 'murrican' that they cant see that their kids are dying because of it.

Then again, you guys eat tide pods and cant figure out your two genders and never vote. Remind me why I should care about any of the trite you spew matters.

I mean dude, you are quite obviously a moron but this is some next level dumb shit but what the fuck is a tide pod?

[Vexilius]

Yes, teachers and faculty should be armed. Perhaps not 100%, the finer details can wait, but there needs to be a real deterrent for someone thinking about going into a school and shooting the place up. You don't see mass shooters going into police stations, even after Obama demonized them for 8 years.

[Hilhen7]

Yes, teachers and faculty should be armed. Perhaps not 100%, the finer details can wait, but there needs to be a real deterrent for someone thinking about going into a school and shooting the place up. You don't see mass shooters going into police stations, even after Obama demonized them for 8 years.

Don't we already have police for that? Why are you arming people who are not trained to stop criminals, when you have people who are already tasked with doing so?

[lummiuster]

Why arming teaching is not the answer?
You will know why the day a teacher goes crazy and starts shooting its students.

(Seriously, in my high school I've had at least 8 professors who got burnout because of aggressive students. Eventually, it will happen)

[jayinjersey]

I'm sure those kids at that school appreciated some "life and liberty" at first hand during the massacre. /s

My guns never killed anyone....why should they be taken away?

[lummiuster]

You had an armed officer on the scene and he did nothing, but you expect the teachers to act?

Arming teachers won't work. Why don't we just mount gun turrets in every room LOL

I'm sure the NRA could make a profit selling and installing the turrets,

For real, beside this officer is not a coward. Trump is an asshole for calling him that.
You let people get Semi-automatic/war weapons then you complain when a cop is too scared to face this guy? lool.

[Gaidax]

You had an armed officer on the scene and he did nothing, but you expect the teachers to act?

Arming teachers won't work. Why don't we just mount gun turrets in every room LOL

I'm sure the NRA could make a profit selling and installing the turrets,

Hmmmmm.... I like the sound of that. Let's implement.