Why arming teachers is not the answer.

[Antiganon]

For real, beside this officer is not a coward. Trump is an asshole for calling him that.
You let people get Semi-automatic/war weapons then you complain when a cop is too scared to face this guy? lool.

He's a fucking coward.

He is a trained law enforcement officer tasked with the protection of children. He hid behind a pillar.

Meanwhile, three teachers, who are tasked with the education of children, used their bodies as shields, giving their lives to protect children.

He is a fucking coward.

[Swalload]

So I fucked up, I will concede there has been at least 1 mass shooting in the UK since, but that's still way less than the 200+ in the US so it shows that gun laws actually do work.

Sure they work, I completely agree and think the US need better gun control. But not repeal the 2nd amendment and not confiscate all guns and shit, no extreme mesure. Also there is urgent need to looking deeper into the mental issues of what push people to want to kill so much in the US, even before guns are part of the equation.

[Deleted]

Sure they work, I completely agree and think the US need better gun control. But not repeal the 2nd amendment and not confiscate all guns and shit, no extreme mesure. Also there is urgent need to looking deeper into the mental issues of what push people to want to kill so much in the US, even before guns are part of the equation.

I would say to start with your education.
And be aware of the message you give to the kids when you say "the answer is to arm teachers".
Shit like this leaves a message to childrens brains.

"Murica" and stuff like that. More guns. The answer is more guns.

I'm like...what?

My country is completely different than yours. Having a gun is taboo here and there is zero shootings in schools.

[Swalload]

I would say to start with your education.
And be aware of the message you give to the kids when you say "the answer is to arm teachers".
Shit like this leaves a message to childrens brains.

"Murica" and stuff like that. More guns. The answer is more guns.

I'm like...what?

My country is completely different than yours. Having a gun is taboo here and there is zero shootings in schools.

I'm not American and I completely agree with what you said. However their situation is different from the get go, they are in a situation where repealing the 2nd amendment and confiscating guns will literally get people killed. More gun control moving forward would be a step in the right direction and I support that, but saying I support that does not mean that I automatically become pro-gun, it's possible to find a middle ground that makes sense for both sides. Where I live having a gun is not taboo, but outside of hunting it's very rarely talked about. We do have shootings but they are very rare, which inevitably is due to better gun control, but going nuts and asking for confiscations of gun bans and extreme measures like that is not the best solution for the situation at hand which has more to do with mental stability that pushes people to commit crimes than it has to do with guns being used

The real issue happens in people's head BEFORE they have access to a gun, the problem exists before any bullets are fired.

[lummiuster]

He's a fucking coward.

He is a trained law enforcement officer tasked with the protection of children. He hid behind a pillar.

Meanwhile, three teachers, who are tasked with the education of children, used their bodies as shields, giving their lives to protect children.

He is a fucking coward.

He is not a coward. It is not his duty to stop the guy. Even cops do not have the obligation to help anyone if the danger is too high (no joke, look it up).
Why the hell would he risk his life for strangers? He has the right to go home alive and see his family again.
He COULD have been a hero, but instead he decided to be a down to earth regular citizen (which is the equivalent of being his own hero since he probably saved his life).
Do you have any idea how dangerous it is to face a guy with a riffle gun in an area where? For me this guy is a good example. We dont need to encourage "heroism" in the society to fix a problem that could be solved with better laws.
If you're mad, be mad at the government for selling these dangerous weapons. Don't be mad at a guy that is afraid of dangerous weapons lol

[RaoBurning]

What will it take for the US to accept that it has a HUGE problem?.

We've largely accepted dead children as a norm (or at least enough of us to actually do anything about it), so I think the next potential turning point is when it becomes Senator's/Congressman's dead (grand?) children we're seeing on the news. Shooting at actual legislators didn't do it, but maybe burying their children and grand children will finally break the camel's back.

Not that I want that to happen, of course. Not in a million years. But that's probably what it would take to finally solve the problem.

[araine]

ban high capacity schools, teachers should be limited to 15 students per classroom.

Right wingers already bitch the taxes are to high and that they shouldnt be forced to pay for shit like schools since i dont have any kids etc etc right wing nonsense so yeah good luck getting them to accept small classes that will NEVER happen

[Torrasque]

This is common sense, arming teachers is a ludicrous idea that only favors arms manufacturers at the cost of the safety of our teachers and children, as well as our tax-dollars. Think about it, who's going to pay for arming teachers? Who's going to pay for their weapons training and maintenance? Us.

[Antiganon]

Don't ban or confiscate guns, it won't work, and you will spark violence and bloodshed trying to do so.

1) Enforce existing laws.
2) Pass FIX NICS to force all reporting agencies to report offenses to the database for background checks.
3) Pass a bill similar to the Obama regulation for SSDI recipients with 3rd party benefit managers, with the caveat that those people are referred to a court appointed psychiatrist and court hearing to be adjudicated as mentally competent (or not), rather than summarily stripping their 2A rights without due process.
4) Pass a bill requiring background checks for ALL gun sales, including private sales and gun shows. Better yet, require the background checks for gun shows, and ban priavte sales outright.

Near 100% of the country will agree with #1. There is no reason to have laws if we don't enforce them.
Near 100% of the country will agree with #2. To be abundantly clear, this only affects people that have already committed crimes that should invalidate their 2A rights, but because somebody at the Air Force, Local PD, or FBI didn't file the right paperwork in the right amount of time, they were able to pass a background check they should have failed.
Near 100% of the country will agree with #3. The process to be adjudicated as mentally incompetent is stringent, already exists, and is already written into law for many other scenarios, just not the 3rd party benefits scenario. You can also appeal that adjudication the same as any other court ruling.
94% of the country supports universal background checks. Probably somewhat less than 94% (but still above 80% I would bet) would support banning private sales as there is no reasonable way to confirm that Joe Schmo selling his gun on craigslist has performed a background check.

Got all the easy shit done? Ok cool. Let's get to the nitty gritty.

Mandatory safety and gun use training before any permits are issued. Mandatory testing following training, you get ONE retest. If you fail twice, you retake the course.
Training and testing is covered at taxpayer expense, by an excise tax on ammunition, of $0.0X per round.
Permits issued on a "Shall issue" basis for anyone who completes the training and passes the test successfully.
Renew every 3 years, retest required, retraining required if you fail the test.

Any responsible gun owner has already taken such a course, before ever touching a gun, and should have no issue with others being required to do the same.

Once all that is done, let's see where we are at as a country, and whether or not further regulation is supported by the population at large.

[Crispin]

My guns never killed anyone....why should they be taken away?

I've never been in a car crash, why are speed limits forced on me?

[Blobfish]

Simple solution, but it may cost a few $$$.

Is to redesign Schools so that they have 1 or 2 entrances with each entrance having a metal detector and a couple of guards. (both male & female)

Little Johnny or Joanna may get their bag searched or frisked if they bring a metal stapler to school.

But that's the price you pay to save lives in the classroom.

[Draco-Onis]

Simple solution, but it may cost a few $$$.

Sorry no this is the MERICA the current administration prides itself in sticking it to public schools cutting everything they can. We have schools that don't even have modern computers and we are still cutting to give more money to the private sector.

[Blobfish]

Sorry no this is the MERICA the current administration prides itself in sticking it to public schools cutting everything they can. We have schools that don't even have modern computers and we are still cutting to give more money to the private sector.

Okay then.. Tax gun purchases.. Put an extra Tax on guns & ammunition bought at gun shows & gun shops.

That Tax can be used to provide the metal detectors & guards at schools.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Here's the thing about guns:

Guns don't shoot people...

... but people shoot other people with guns.

Guns are an easy, cheap, efficient way to kill. After all, this is what they were designed to do.

They're intimidating, they're not safe and require careful handling.

They're light, easy to handle and conceal.

The only reason you need guns is to protect yourself against others who wield guns. And that's the thing -- and the debate.

There are so many guns in the US that even without the sales going on right now, the country would still be infested with guns all around. The NRA made sure that every citizen interested in guns would be able to have their hands on it.

So the question is not whether or not guns are dangerous -- which they are -- but how to defend ourselves against it. Is it, ironically, to wield them?

Since they're mechanical, there's no real way to disarm them going into school. With 3D printers, you can print some in plastic, which would bypass metal detector. Now that's still relatively uncommon.

Metal detectors could be implemented at each school's entrances. It'd cost a bunch, require permanent employees and of course, queues to get inside the school. Just try to picture the fact that you bring a "metal bread knife", or have a backpack with metal zippers, or wear metal clothing accessories (chains, etc). Not very efficient, if not impossible. Plus, guns could still be smuggled in through windows, although it'd require people helping you - IE, aware of your intentions.

I can't think of a solution myself. Keeping guns in a school is outrageously stupid. And there's no other solution - other than literally sending the police to collect guns in every single houses in the US, which considering how crazy the US is with guns, I'm sincerely afraid there'd be a civil war.

[Draco-Onis]

Okay then.. Tax gun purchases.. Put an extra Tax on guns & ammunition bought at gun shows & gun shops.

That Tax can be used to provide the metal detectors & guards at schools.

Republicans nowadays believe that tax cuts are the way to raise money no way in hell will they raise or put taxes on anything especially not on guns.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's the thing about guns:

Guns don't shoot people...

... but people shoot other people with guns.

Guns are an easy, cheap, efficient way to kill. After all, this is what they were designed to do.

They're intimidating, they're not safe and require careful handling.

They're light, easy to handle and conceal.

The only reason you need guns is to protect yourself against others who wield guns. And that's the thing -- and the debate.

There are so many guns in the US that even without the sales going on right now, the country would still be infested with guns all around. The NRA made sure that every citizen interested in guns would be able to have their hands on it.

So the question is not whether or not guns are dangerous -- which they are -- but how to defend ourselves against it. Is it, ironically, to wield them?

Since they're mechanical, there's no real way to disarm them going into school. With 3D printers, you can print some in plastic, which would bypass metal detector. Now that's still relatively uncommon.

Metal detectors could be implemented at each school's entrances. It'd cost a bunch, require permanent employees and of course, queues to get inside the school. Just try to picture the fact that you bring a "metal bread knife", or have a backpack with metal zippers, or wear metal clothing accessories (chains, etc). Not very efficient, if not impossible. Plus, guns could still be smuggled in through windows, although it'd require people helping you - IE, aware of your intentions.

I can't think of a solution myself. Keeping guns in a school is outrageously stupid. And there's no other solution - other than literally sending the police to collect guns in every single houses in the US, which considering how crazy the US is with guns, I'm sincerely afraid there'd be a civil war.

This is not something you solve overnight first you fix the holes in the system to stop people who are mentally unstable, domestic abusers and violent offenders to get guns then you work from there. We don't need to take away all guns plenty of ways to make it stricter to get guns and make sure those who get guns are properly trained, screened and registered so we can keep track of guns that fall through the cracks.

There's no magical solution that will solve everything we have decades of loosening gun laws to the point of insanity getting back to a sane medium will take at least as long.

[Theodarzna]

I think the biggest reason is we just simply are not armed security forces, nor are we paid enough to be combat ready defenders. At this point we already ask of teachers way more than the pay justifies, now we are going to ask them to be armed combat ready defense forces?

[Ghostpanther]

He is not a coward. It is not his duty to stop the guy. Even cops do not have the obligation to help anyone if the danger is too high (no joke, look it up).
Why the hell would he risk his life for strangers? He has the right to go home alive and see his family again.
He COULD have been a hero, but instead he decided to be a down to earth regular citizen (which is the equivalent of being his own hero since he probably saved his life).
Do you have any idea how dangerous it is to face a guy with a riffle gun in an area where? For me this guy is a good example. We dont need to encourage "heroism" in the society to fix a problem that could be solved with better laws.
If you're mad, be mad at the government for selling these dangerous weapons. Don't be mad at a guy that is afraid of dangerous weapons lol

Which is why the schools need a security guard whose specific job is to stop intruders even if it is risking his life. You have them sign a contract saying such and then you give them the tools they need to stop and comfort a intruder.

That being said, he is a coward. There are many cops each year who die doing their jobs. If you are not willing to risk your life being a police officer or even a armed guard, you got no damn business being one.

[Caaethil]

it's better if the teachers are targets than the children, imo.

That's gonna get some real enthusiastic graduates rearing to teach, eh? Nice. "Yo, we'll give you some guns, just to draw attention from the students. That cool?"

[Elegiac]

What, exactly, do you think is in a bottle of bleach?

All the ingredients you'll need for nitrocellulose, apparently.

[Alvito]

ban high capacity schools, teachers should be limited to 15 students per classroom.

A lot of schools are double that class size so that is unlikely. It is a problem for sure, I don't know how changing the student to teacher ratio would help with school shootings though.

- - - Updated - - -

It's so hard to find chlorine and bleach isn't it.

3 pool supply stores within 2 miles of my house on top of things like Walmart that would also have it.