Primer on Firearms

[Antiganon]

So, I'm not remotely qualified to get into the majority of nitty gritty details here.

But I see a ton of people posting about guns, spewing blatant false information (usually from ignorance rather than deliberately), on both sides.

It is time we, as a discussion-oriented community, get back to the actual facts of the debate.

TYPES OF GUNS

HANDGUN - A weapon that fits in a single hand. Says absolutely nothing about the size of the round, the method of chambering a round, or the method of reloading. Fires bullets, which are comprised of a slug (the metal part that is fired from the gun), powder, and wadding, encased in a metal enclosure.
RIFLE - A longer weapon that generally requires two hands to shoot accurately. Accurate to much longer distances than a handgun in almost all circumstances. See above notes about round size/chambering/reloading. Fires bullets.
SHOTGUN - A longer weapon that fires shells, rather than bullets. Shotgun shells are a plastic enclosure around the projectile, powder, and wadding. Shotguns can have rifled barrels (a spiral groove on the inside of the barrel intended to increase accuracy) or smoothbore (no rifling, lower accuracy). Shotguns can fire birdshot (high gauge pellets intended for birds and other very small game), buckshot (large gauge pellets intended for deer or other small/medium game) or slugs (solid projectiles very similar to the rounds fired from a rifle, intended for deer or other large/medium game).
CARBINE - A smaller class of rifle. More effective than a typical rifle in close quarters or high-mobility situations. Can be used effectively one handed with strength and training.
REVOLVER - A type of handgun that uses a revolving "magazine".
ASSAULT RIFLE - Generally a military weapon with user-selectable options for fire, typically semiautomatic, 3-round burst, or fully automatic.
HUNTING RIFLE - A meaningless, loaded term used in the gun control debate, typically by gun rights proponents, that has no real relationship to any particular class of weapon. Sometimes it means bolt-action long rifles. Sometimes it means a shotgun with a camouflage pattern. Sometimes it means something else entirely.
ASSAULT WEAPON - A meaningless, loaded term used in the gun control debate that has no real relationship to any particular class of weapon. Sometimes it means semi-automatic weapons with a vertical underbarrel grip. Sometimes it means Assault Rifle, as above. Sometimes it means something else entirely.

METHODS OF CHAMBERING A ROUND

BREAK-ACTION - the barrel and chamber are separated, usually on a hinge right above the trigger housing. A single round is inserted directly into the end of the barrel. Sometimes there are double-barreled break-action guns, usually shotguns, though double-barreled handguns are not unheard of.
BOLT-ACTION - a large bolt on the side of the chamber is rotated and pulled towards the stock, revealing an empty chamber, to which a round is then inserted. This can be manual insertion or magazine-fed.
PUMP-ACTION - the underbarrel grip is on a slide, which is manually "pumped" towards the stock, feeding the next round from the underbarrel magazine. Exclusively used in long guns, most commonly used in shotguns.
LEVER-ACTION - similar to pump-action, but you swing a lever down and away from the stock, rather than towards the stock.
SEMI-AUTOMATIC - When fired, the slide moves backwards in the gun past the chamber, revealing an opening in the bottom of the chamber. The magazine then pushes a round up into the chamber, with a spring. The trigger must be pulled once per round fired.
FULLY-AUTOMATIC - When fired, the slide moves backwards and loads the next round as in semi-automatics, but you can hold down the trigger to continue firing.

If you see these terms used to mean anything other than what you see here, you can safely assume that either the poster has no idea what they are talking about, or they are being deliberately dishonest.

"We should ban assault weapons." - The poster is uninformed.
"We should ban semi-automatic rifles with a vertical underbarrel grip." - The poster said what the uninformed poster above probably meant.
"There is no point in banning the AR-15 when hunting rifles are more powerful anyway." - This poster is being deliberately misleading.
"There is no point in banning small caliber semiautomatic carbines when high caliber bolt action rifles are more powerful anyway." - This poster said what the deliberately misleading poster above probably meant.

Anyone else have definitions they want to clarify in this discussion?

[zenkai]

How many threads do we need about guns?

[Antiganon]

How many threads do we need about guns?

Probably at least one less than we have, but I didn't want to repost this in every gun thread, only for it to get lost, and have zero impact.

[Saucexorzski]

Probably at least one less than we have, but I didn't want to repost this in every gun thread, only for it to get lost, and have zero impact.

i feel you but..you know...

[draykorinee]

We definitely should ban assault weapons though.

[Antiganon]

I bet school kids are glad that you clarified and defined what they die to when some asshole randomly shoots them.....

If you haven't seen my posts in other threads, I am in favor of very strong gun control, testing and permitting for any gun ownership whatsoever, and a whole host of other things that normally fall under broadly supported (but never passed because NRA) "Common Sense Gun Control".

The point of this thread was to clarify the terms people are using in this debate. When one person says "Assault Weapon" they might mean a tactically oriented carbine like the AR-15, another might mean something with user-selectable rate-of-fire, etc.

We can't begin to debate the topic if we don't have the same definitions for terms used by people on both sides.

[Citizen T]

So, I'm not remotely qualified to get into the majority of nitty gritty details here.

But I see a ton of people posting about guns, spewing blatant false information (usually from ignorance rather than deliberately), on both sides.

It is time we, as a discussion-oriented community, get back to the actual facts of the debate.

TYPES OF GUNS

HANDGUN - A weapon that fits in a single hand. Says absolutely nothing about the size of the round, the method of chambering a round, or the method of reloading. Fires bullets, which are comprised of a slug (the metal part that is fired from the gun), powder, and wadding, encased in a metal enclosure.
RIFLE - A longer weapon that generally requires two hands to shoot accurately. Accurate to much longer distances than a handgun in almost all circumstances. See above notes about round size/chambering/reloading. Fires bullets.
SHOTGUN - A longer weapon that fires shells, rather than bullets. Shotgun shells are a plastic enclosure around the projectile, powder, and wadding. Shotguns can have rifled barrels (a spiral groove on the inside of the barrel intended to increase accuracy) or smoothbore (no rifling, lower accuracy). Shotguns can fire birdshot (high gauge pellets intended for birds and other very small game), buckshot (large gauge pellets intended for deer or other small/medium game) or slugs (solid projectiles very similar to the rounds fired from a rifle, intended for deer or other large/medium game).
CARBINE - A smaller class of rifle. More effective than a typical rifle in close quarters or high-mobility situations. Can be used effectively one handed with strength and training.
REVOLVER - A type of handgun that uses a revolving "magazine".
ASSAULT RIFLE - Generally a military weapon with user-selectable options for fire, typically semiautomatic, 3-round burst, or fully automatic.
HUNTING RIFLE - A meaningless, loaded term used in the gun control debate, typically by gun rights proponents, that has no real relationship to any particular class of weapon. Sometimes it means bolt-action long rifles. Sometimes it means a shotgun with a camouflage pattern. Sometimes it means something else entirely.
ASSAULT WEAPON - A meaningless, loaded term used in the gun control debate that has no real relationship to any particular class of weapon. Sometimes it means semi-automatic weapons with a vertical underbarrel grip. Sometimes it means Assault Rifle, as above. Sometimes it means something else entirely.

METHODS OF CHAMBERING A ROUND

BREAK-ACTION - the barrel and chamber are separated, usually on a hinge right above the trigger housing. A single round is inserted directly into the end of the barrel. Sometimes there are double-barreled break-action guns, usually shotguns, though double-barreled handguns are not unheard of.
BOLT-ACTION - a large bolt on the side of the chamber is rotated and pulled towards the stock, revealing an empty chamber, to which a round is then inserted. This can be manual insertion or magazine-fed.
PUMP-ACTION - the underbarrel grip is on a slide, which is manually "pumped" towards the stock, feeding the next round from the underbarrel magazine. Exclusively used in shotguns.
LEVER-ACTION - similar to pump-action, but you swing a lever down and away from the stock, rather than towards the stock.
SEMI-AUTOMATIC - When fired, the slide moves backwards in the gun past the chamber, revealing an opening in the bottom of the chamber. The magazine then pushes a round up into the chamber, with a spring. The trigger must be pulled once per round fired.
FULLY-AUTOMATIC - When fired, the slide moves backwards and loads the next round as in semi-automatics, but you can hold down the trigger to continue firing.

If you see these terms used to mean anything other than what you see here, you can safely assume that either the poster has no idea what they are talking about, or they are being deliberately dishonest.

"We should ban assault weapons." - The poster is uninformed.
"We should ban semi-automatic rifles with a vertical underbarrel grip." - The poster said what the uninformed poster above probably meant.
"There is no point in banning the AR-15 when hunting rifles are more powerful anyway." - This poster is being deliberately misleading.
"There is no point in banning small caliber semiautomatic carbines when high caliber bolt action rifles are more powerful anyway." - This poster said what the deliberately misleading poster above probably meant.

Anyone else have definitions they want to clarify in this discussion?

You are incorrect in your statement that pump action is exclusive to shotguns. There are many pump action rifles. The Remington 7600 comes to mind off the top of my head.

[Swalload]

How many threads do we need about guns?

As many as necessary to educate the uneducated.

- - - Updated - - -

I bet school kids are glad that you clarified and defined what they die to when some asshole randomly shoots them.....

You think details and accurate information becomes irrelevant just because people die? No, nowhere near, it's that kind of thinking that is causing problems right now. And no, I'm not pro-gun, not anti-gun either, I'm anti-misleading, brainwashing and anti using kids to push a far left agenda to win fake politcal points on a matter that is much deeper than just being for or against guns.

[Antiganon]

You are incorrect in your statement that pump action is exclusive to shotguns. There are many pump action rifles. The Remington 7600 comes to mind off the top of my head.

Noted, and corrected.

Thank you for contributing to the spirit of this thread.

[igualitarist]

i don't know why gun control threads are allowed, but gender/religion/whatever aren't...

I mean, i think all kinds of threads should be allowed, i just can't understand the criteria used to estabilish a certain polemical/political thread is allowed, while another polemical/political thread is forbidden.

It makes me think thats because the left wing moderators here don't want to see those subjects being debated here, while, on the other hand, they want to see gun control being constantly debated.

[Toogoodman]

-snip-

A good addition to the list would be: Battle Rifle - High powered (large caliber round, usually 308 or 7.62) rounds, shot at a semi-automatic rate, center fire, magazine fed rifle. People want to ban carbines, and yet they never even speak or these (most notable are the G3, M14, and FAL which are all sold in semi-automatic form, because thats all they come as).

[tyrlaan]

Is it against forum rules to quote people to point out they are being assholes? Asking before doing

OP, this is a good post and a good idea.

[Toogoodman]

We definitely should ban assault weapons though.

Lol 10/10 troll

[Daedius]

Let Americans keep their guns, just replace them with Muskets and Flintlock pistols!

[Dhrizzle]

HUNTING RIFLE - A meaningless, loaded term used in the gun control debate, typically by gun rights proponents, that has no real relationship to any particular class of weapon. Sometimes it means bolt-action long rifles. Sometimes it means a shotgun with a camouflage pattern. Sometimes it means something else entirely.
ASSAULT WEAPON - A meaningless, loaded term used in the gun control debate that has no real relationship to any particular class of weapon. Sometimes it means semi-automatic weapons with a vertical underbarrel grip. Sometimes it means Assault Rifle, as above. Sometimes it means something else entirely.

Well these are a couple of meaningless, loaded definitions. Obviously a HUNTING RIFLE is a rifle suitable for hunting whilst an ASSAULT WEAPON is a weapon effective for attacking groups of people.

For a HUNTING RIFLE this could be many things depending on the quarry you are taking, your intentions for the carcass and the "difficulty level" you want to set for the sport. For ASSAULT WEAPONS (many of which could be used for hunting) you can narrow the field by looking at weapons that allow the shooter to rapidly take down targets whilst maintaining a safe distance to ensure they are not stopped.

[Dys]

i don't know why gun control threads are allowed, but gender/religion/whatever aren't...

I mean, i think all kinds of threads should be allowed, i just can't understand the criteria used to estabilish a certain polemical/political thread is allowed, while another polemical/political thread is forbidden.

It makes me think thats because the left wing moderators here don't want to see those subjects being debated here, while, on the other hand, they want to see gun control being constantly debated.

Because gun control can be actively discussed with little derailment, even with hostilities being increased. Religion and gender always derail and break down to pure mud slinging with no redeeming discussions continuing to be produced.

It's not the fact that it polarizes people, it's the fact once the polarization is achieved, nothing good comes from the banned topics. And that is all rooted in the nature of each topic. Gun control is very specific, very tangible, very real. Religion and gender identity politics are vague as fuck and chockfull of "muh feels", which loads the topics with conjecture, bullshit and plenty of room for people to infer inane ideas that further produces more conjecture and bullshit. You don't foster good discussion with loaded topics, and regardless of how you feel about gun control, it's not a loaded topic in any way, even if the guns themselves are loaded.

[schwarzkopf]

"We should ban assault weapons." - The poster is uninformed.

"We should ban what ever the AR-15 is called" - the poster is a rational person, with some medical background who understands reality.

Fact - AR-15 : DESIGNED TO KILL PEOPLE (it literally detonates organs in your body due to the velocity of entry)

You want your toys, then keep it to the defensive ones.

If you have an AR-15 - then your intent is to kill people. End of story.

Ref: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...n-guns/553937/

[Spectral]

"We should ban what ever the AR-15 is called" - the poster is a rational person, with some medical background who understands reality.

Fact - AR-15 : DESIGNED TO KILL (it literally detonates organs in your body due to the velocity of entry)

You want your toys, then keep it to the defensive ones.

All guns are designed to kill something. That's what they're for. Rifles tend to be better at it than handguns, particularly from range, but I don't really understand what you think is special about an AR-15 relative to other rifles.

If you have an AR-15 - then your intent is to kill. End of story.

They must work poorly then. Most of their owners never wind up killing anyone.

Ref: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...n-guns/553937/

As mentioned in the other thread on the Politics subforum, this is a really odd argument that just seems like firearms illiteracy. AR-15s aren't particularly remarkable when it comes to kinetic energy, which is what's being addressed in that article. Being surprised that rifles have more stopping power than handguns is just weird.

[schwarzkopf]

All guns are designed to kill something.

Sure - but I'm trying to be rational and have some middle ground. An AR-15 has no other function than to kills groups of people.
Other guns have other plausible functions.

They must work poorly then. Most of their owners never wind up killing anyone.

Cars are designed for driving - yet many people have them in garages undriven - doesn't change the nature and design of the item.

AR-15s aren't particularly remarkable when it comes to kinetic energy

Well - you'd be wrong. Flat out wrong.

And you know what - the longer people who want these to be treated like toys blather on about how wonderful killing things is - the stronger the eventual control on guns will be.


Right now - rationality if you choose to pursue it, can save a shit load of lives and save your precious toys as well.

[Spectral]

Cars are designed for driving - yet many people have them in garages undriven - doesn't change the nature and design of the item.

Notice that you moved the goalposts here - your previous claim was:

If you have an AR-15 - then your intent is to kill people. End of story.

This is trivially false. The vast majority of people that own AR-15s don't try to kill anyone.

Well - you'd be wrong. Flat out wrong.

And you know what - the longer people who want these to be treated like toys blather on about how wonderful killing things is - the stronger the eventual control on guns will be.


Right now - rationality if you choose to pursue it, can save a shit load of lives and save your precious toys as well.

Wait, so you genuinely believe AR-15s are remarkable when it comes to kinetic energy? And you think I'm flat out wrong?

I really don't think this sort of technical illiteracy is a good look for gun control advocates.

For clarity, they're not my toys. I don't own a firearm. I generally think owning firearms is a pretty bad idea.