RET in BfA - Holy Power / Judgment question

[tru]

Do you plan to make a point about why holy power is bad for the class or is your only complaint that another class uses something similar, even though the classes are hardly the same?

Hes not wrong... The early wrath version of ret made sense... you have to sacrifice yourself to do damage to others balance the self damage and self healing and you have a unique spec not something with ideas and abilities stole from other classes.

[Shelly]

Hes not wrong... The early wrath version of ret made sense... you have to sacrifice yourself to do damage to others balance the self damage and self healing and you have a unique spec not something with ideas and abilities stole from other classes.

Wrath version?

I'm assuming you're talking about Seal of Blood, where you'd receive damage when judging.

Here's the thing though, that was removed from Wrath, it's a BC spell. For Wrath they gave both sides Seal of the Righteous - I think, it's been a while. Although neither used it because Command was better.

People enjoyed the WotLK version of Ret because the rotation was simple, the ICC tier bonus was utterly insane and you'd be a magical sparkle pony of death and you were fighting undead mobs through most of the expansion that took extra damage from your holy attacks.

Wrath was MEANT to be the paladin expansion. Sure DKs came along and were the new (and broken) hotness, but frankly by the time ICC rolled around every single class was pretty damn broken due to massive gear inflation.

Either way, it followed a quest for pure justice in the light with a paladin at the helm to bring a fallen paladin to answer for their crimes.

On to the original topic. Latest build (posted on February 22, 2018) shows some massive changes to paladins.

Our mastery is back to the WoD version where it straight up increases our holy damage - yay!

But they've also brought Inquisition back as a talent so I hate the entire planet right now just knowing that that exists somewhere.

[Puzzony]

Because Crusade is better than Inquisition, right? 4Head

[Deleted]

Latest build looks interesting to say the least...

1st row still looks like an obvious choice.
2nd row adds HoW; but i think i'd still be going with BoW.
3rd row remains unchanged and doesn't matter much in PvE anyway.
4th row spices things up a bit; i'm strongly leaning towards WoA... as the go to for single target fights
5th row is a bit odd... i'd really preffer if they designated this one to pure movement
6th row i'd go with JoL
7th row is rather interesting; I'm leaning towards Inquisition...

Overall 1 things irks me:
- i hope we are getting blessed hammers baked in, sharing CD with BoW

[Deleted]

If I wanted to play a rogue, I'd play a rogue and not a paladin.

But now you get to play Arms Rogue.

-

Mastery has to change. It only works if you have Crusade levels of Haste and even then it's only ever single target.
If you want us to need a buff for any sort of damage just bring back Inq. Hell make that the mastery for all I care. Anything is better than Colossus Judgement.

[Deleted]

Hand of light is back

[Deleted]

At some level, there will always be a secondary resource system. This isn't Wrath. If you want Wrath, go to a private server or something. Maybe they could make Holy Power a higher point system to differentiate it somewhat, but to outright scrap it? That's never going to happen.

It's eaither 5-6-7 HoPo, or it's a degrading 100 point "Holy Wrath" or whatever like Focus and Energy. We're still rogues, we are just using their other resource. Doesn't make any difference. HoPo is okay. Focus would be okay too. Just purge colossus smash.

[Deleted]

Mastery: Hand of Light (New) Increases all Holy damage done by [ 160% of Spell Power ]%. Paladin - Retribution Spec.

[Deleted]

Because Crusade is better than Inquisition, right? 4Head

If I don't have to worry THAT much about haste for the judgements than Inq could be better couldn't it? I'm not nearly min max enough to calculate it.

I liked Inquisition. I like this change.

[Shelly]

Because Crusade is better than Inquisition, right? 4Head

Well for starters I prefer Divine Purpose. I like having procs in a spec, it makes things more fun.

But to answer your question directly, yes, it is.

One is a maintenance buff and those always suck to keep going and is quite frankly brainless.

Meanwhile Crusade boosts your burst damage but requires specific ramp to maximize that damage depending on the size of the burst window.

Either way my dislike for Inquisition is and always has been high. It was a terrible mastery and it's a terrible talent purely from a gameplay perspective because there's nothing dynamic about it, there's no choice regarding if you are going to save it for later or do it now. There's no thought to it.

I don't mind spinning plate gameplay, but there has to be a point to it and something interesting about it. Survival Hunter it's about maximizing your mongoose bites in the window while at 6 stacks. Windwalker monks it's about maintaining your combo buff.

There are a lot of ways they could make Inquisition better - make it a buff tied to an ability with a long CD that you could reduce through tight gameplay, make it a 30s buff on a 1-min CD that replaces wings, make it a marked-target talent with a long CD that rewards a buff while you're attacking that enemy with a reset on it if the enemy dies.

All would be drastic improvements over hitting inquisition whenever Tell Me When beeps at you.

[garonne]

Well for starters I prefer Divine Purpose. I like having procs in a spec, it makes things more fun.

But to answer your question directly, yes, it is.

One is a maintenance buff and those always suck to keep going and is quite frankly brainless.

Meanwhile Crusade boosts your burst damage but requires specific ramp to maximize that damage depending on the size of the burst window.

Either way my dislike for Inquisition is and always has been high. It was a terrible mastery and it's a terrible talent purely from a gameplay perspective because there's nothing dynamic about it, there's no choice regarding if you are going to save it for later or do it now. There's no thought to it.

I don't mind spinning plate gameplay, but there has to be a point to it and something interesting about it. Survival Hunter it's about maximizing your mongoose bites in the window while at 6 stacks. Windwalker monks it's about maintaining your combo buff.

There are a lot of ways they could make Inquisition better - make it a buff tied to an ability with a long CD that you could reduce through tight gameplay, make it a 30s buff on a 1-min CD that replaces wings, make it a marked-target talent with a long CD that rewards a buff while you're attacking that enemy with a reset on it if the enemy dies.

All would be drastic improvements over hitting inquisition whenever Tell Me When beeps at you.

a no thought talent doesnt make it a bad talent, its just not exciting (for you, some ppl love the haste to give a faster gameplay). not everything has to require thought. passives in the game exist for this sole purpose. inquisition of days past was horrible not because it was just a maintenance but because of our generation of holy power was slow. with the buff adding haste, and our repertoire having access to more builders (CS (1)/HoW (1), Judge (1), BoJ (2), Cons (1)/WoA(5) Ret is in a much better position for the talent to exist.

the problem is gonna come down to the balancing as to how it stands up to DP and Crusade.

[Eurytos]

Inquisition as a talent is perfect. The idea of inquisition is not bad. Some folks don't like it, keep it as a talent. I suspect I will use it here and there to change things up in my rotation, presumably its balanced with the other talents in the same tier.

[Swampmoose]

It's eaither 5-6-7 HoPo, or it's a degrading 100 point "Holy Wrath" or whatever like Focus and Energy. We're still rogues, we are just using their other resource. Doesn't make any difference. HoPo is okay. Focus would be okay too. Just purge colossus smash.

It's already been removed. You're making a lot of posts about it and it's gone lol.

I'm assuming you're talking about Seal of Blood, where you'd receive damage when judging.

Here's the thing though, that was removed from Wrath, it's a BC spell. For Wrath they gave both sides Seal of the Righteous - I think, it's been a while. Although neither used it because Command was better.

Seal of Blood was early Wrath. It didn't last long though.

[Groven4]

It's already been removed. You're making a lot of posts about it and it's gone lol.



Seal of Blood was early Wrath. It didn't last long though.

It lasted until at least Ulduar as I remember killing myself on Hodir hardmode. I hated it.

[Deleted]

The changes overall are very good. Inquisition actually looks in place as a talent.

The return of Hammer of Wrath is just outstanding, if things stay this way I'll be actually playing my pala in BFA.

All I want now is a glyph that changes the animation of Blade of Justice to the old, lovely exorcism with that purging sound and I'll be happy.

[Grim Reaper]

The return of Hammer of Wrath is just outstanding, if things stay this way I'll be actually playing my pala in BFA.

I love this change. We will have to sim it, but I really missed our Hammer of Ranged Execute.
On the other hand, I would love it even more if it was the version that generated HP and could be used with no restriction during AW

[marinos]

I love this change. We will have to sim it, but I really missed our Hammer of Ranged Execute.
On the other hand, I would love it even more if it was the version that generated HP and could be used with no restriction during AW

Atm on alpha it generates 1 holy power and can be used during wings even if the target isn't at 20% or lower hp.

[Shelly]

Seal of Blood was early Wrath. It didn't last long though.

https://www.engadget.com/2007/11/27/...mand-vs-blood/

No. It wasn't.

Alliance got SoV, horde with BLOOD elves got Seal of Blood.

When WotLK hit they gave both SoV.

[Deleted]

It's already been removed. You're making a lot of posts about it and it's gone lol.

I was 2 pages back and wowhead is disabled at the office. lol

[Ryuji]

Wrath version?

I'm assuming you're talking about Seal of Blood, where you'd receive damage when judging.

Here's the thing though, that was removed from Wrath, it's a BC spell. For Wrath they gave both sides Seal of the Righteous - I think, it's been a while. Although neither used it because Command was better.

It was removed in patch 3.2 when the Argent Tournament came out. When Wrath hit, Paladins on both Horde and Alliance got Seal of Blood/the Martyr and Seal of Corruption/Vengeance(instead of Horde with Blood and Alliance with Vengeance only in BC), alongside Seal of Command and Righteousness(and light/wisdom but digression). Seal of Blood/the Martyr was the go-to seal in Naxx and Ulduar but Blizz didn't like it when Rets killed themselves with a single Judgement(was hilarious when it happened but it was problematic, so they changed it in 3.1).

After the change in 3.2 to remove SoB/tM, Seal of Corruption/Vengeance became the go-to seal for mobs that live long enough to reach 5 stacks of the debuff(usually bosses, but also was useful for Prot to stack the corruption/vengeance stacks with Hammer of the Righteous for good aggro generation and damage), whereas Seal of Command was for aoe or short-lived mobs.

...I miss SoB/SotM...