Anduin's First Lie - Some BfA SPOILERS

[A Dark Knight]

its about time the alliance gets a mad leader that needs to be dethroned.

[Shampro]

I honestly think that Nightelves will never forgive the burning of Teldrassil.

The only thing that would bring the factions together would be proof that the Horde had nothing to do with that carnage.

The Forsaken would never completely let go of Lordaeron either, infact Sylvanas is what keeps a lot of them in check and if there's one organization that knows how to hold a grudge is the Forsaken. Combined that with Night Elves, specifically Tyrande's recent portrayal at Suramar, I'm very curious as to how they will justify these parties just shrugging off the invasion of thier home.

[Unholyground]

This expansion is just setting up the unification of the factions.

[Toppy]

This expansion is just setting up the unification of the factions.

Just like the last couple right? Just like Sylvaanas and Jaina are going to be a raid boss any day now right?

[Unholyground]

Just like the last couple right? Just like Sylvaanas and Jaina are going to be a raid boss any day now right?

It would be beneficial for the player base, it would effectively double the player base for everything group related, seems retarded of Blizzard not to do it at some point already.

[Toppy]

It would be beneficial for the player base, it would effectively double the player base for everything group related, seems retarded of Blizzard not to do it at some point already.

At this point people are too entrenched in alliance vs horde I think a lot of people would quit if they were rid of it. Not to mention all the old stuff that would make even less sense for new players or leveling. "Oh theres no factions, but in 90% of the zones you're fighting the other faction"

Its a hugely unrealistic expectation. Maybe in WoW2, but WoW right now would need a major major overhaul for no factions to work.

[Deleted]

It would be beneficial for the player base, it would effectively double the player base for everything group related, seems retarded of Blizzard not to do it at some point already.

So it's retarded of Blizzard to not undermine the core philosophy of their franchise?

[Unholyground]

At this point people are too entrenched in alliance vs horde I think a lot of people would quit if they were rid of it. Not to mention all the old stuff that would make even less sense for new players or leveling. "Oh theres no factions, but in 90% of the zones you're fighting the other faction"

Its a hugely unrealistic expectation. Maybe in WoW2, but WoW right now would need a major major overhaul for no factions to work.

WoW 2 is only after 2024 if they do it, the other option is allowing us to do LFG just like we can be on each others teams in PvP when there is low representation, just have it turn you into a random race if you are opted into it. Seems like a no brainier to me because it is a shame that we are limited to one side or the other.

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So it's retarded of Blizzard to not undermine the core philosophy of their franchise?

There are ways around it, I would rather have 10 million people to play with than 5, it would reduce que times dramatically.

[Toppy]

WoW 2 is only after 2024 if they do it, the other option is allowing us to do LFG just like we can be on each others teams in PvP when there is low representation, just have it turn you into a random race if you are opted into it. Seems like a no brainier to me because it is a shame that we are limited to one side or the other.

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There are ways around it, I would rather have 10 million people to play with than 5, it would reduce que times dramatically.

That one I do agree with. I do not think they should remove factions outright but easing up the restrictions a little wouldnt hurt. Like that pointless language barrier.

[Zulkhan]

Her Hatred was extremely justified, as she had spent years protecting the Horde from the wrath of the Alliance only to have that Horde decimate her City.

The worst part about the writing was she didn't get to wipe out more horde.

No, Jaina's hatred is not justified. It's irrational and mostly fueled by her own grievances and failings. She's little more than a hurt woman catching even the smallest of excuses to lash her anger out.

[Unholyground]

That one I do agree with. I do not think they should remove factions outright but easing up the restrictions a little wouldnt hurt. Like that pointless language barrier.

Ya, and I think a lot of people feel the same way for the most part and basically don't outright want a merger but just ways to do PvE content with the other faction.

[Zulkhan]

My theory is that the "boy king" is Wrathion.

I doubt it. Anduin has pretty much become the "boy king" canonically, considered how every character who's not Alliance calls him that way.

[Toppy]

No, Jaina's hatred is not justified. It's irrational and mostly fueled by her own grievances and failings. She's little more than a hurt woman catching even the smallest of excuses to lash her anger out.

Pretty much this. The majority of her hatred falls upon what happened with Theramore.

But Theramore was entirely, unquestionably, her own doing. She cried for peace and neutrality while her city was the base of operations for an invasion. "Please dont go to war with my city, I'm only using it to help others go to war with your lands and murder your people"

[Zulkhan]

Pretty much this. The majority of her hatred falls upon what happened with Theramore.

But Theramore was entirely, unquestionably, her own doing. She cried for peace and neutrality while her city was the base of operations for an invasion. "Please dont go to war with my city, I'm only using it to help others go to war with your lands and murder your people"

The major proof regarding Jaina's hatred being irrational is the fact that she showed no anger whatsoever until that mana bomb was dropped on Theramore. Then, despite all the evidence of the world proving that only Garrosh and a few loyalists actively worked on that plan, she has turned biased as hell and started to consider the Horde as a whole a bunch of backstabbing, treacherous and ruthless monsters all of a sudden.

At the core I think Jaina simply molds her personal self-hate regarding the death of her father into hatred directed towards the Horde itself.

[Mehrunes]

Her Hatred was extremely justified, as she had spent years protecting the Horde from the wrath of the Alliance only to have that Horde decimate her City.

She was protecting the Horde so well that her own subjects from Northwatch randomly invaded the Barrens, capturing a Horde outpost and besieging another, before Garrosh even farted in Ashenvale's general direction. Then Theramore's forces spilled across three different Horde zones, besieged fourth and were engaged in war against the Horde in three more contested zones. With Jaina turning Dustwallow into a highway for Alliance reinforcements from EK into their Barrens invasion and Theramore into Alliance's main staging ground on the continent. All dat protection and lack of Horde's justification to blow it into the stratosphere.

Pretty much this. The majority of her hatred falls upon what happened with Theramore.

But Theramore was entirely, unquestionably, her own doing. She cried for peace and neutrality while her city was the base of operations for an invasion. "Please dont go to war with my city, I'm only using it to help others go to war with your lands and murder your people"

But she didn't just help others go to war with the Horde. Alliance forces fighting the Horde in 6 zones in Cata were wearing Theramore tabards.

[Alanar]

"Dat blade has shiny eye. Always watchin us. Why you not see?
Three lies. Da first one been told.
Bound by day throne? No. Free. Free!
Da next gonna come soon. Maybe dey see dis one."
-Ogmot the Mad

"King Varian Wrynn gave his life to save his people. He knew that no one, not even a king, is more important than the Alliance."
-Anduin Wrynn

Anduin has always been a man of peace. He knows what it is more important to protect. My speculation is, if he has to betray the Alliance to save the world, he will. And he may not be the only one, remember that Saurfang wants to speak with him while Sylvanas and Genn are thirsting for war. Maybe this two characters are the ones who will show us in-game who real threat is.

Anduin Wrynn is now the High King of the Alliance and King of Stormwind, when the prophecy talks about a throne, it may be talking that Anduin is not bound to the throne of the Alliance (yeah, I know its not like a king title, it is a figurative way of speaking), but to himself and the rest of world, not only his people. He might choose the major good to try and save everyone, even if he betrays his friends and loved ones. He is free of the yoke of the Alliance. Maybe this is the reason why the Old Gods are telling us about the lies. They want us to acknowledge them so we can end the treacherous ones.

You know who also has an eye, a big one eye, C'thun. What if he, somehow, has taken control of the Silithus' sword, like it happened to Voldrassil in Northrend, and is now using it to see through it? Sargeras is imprisoned, so he may not be in control of the sword anymore. And yes, I know it is stated that C'thun is dead, but the Old Gods are neither dead or alive. They have, a different status.

Remember this is just a speculation. You don't need to flame me. Thanks!

He doesn't have any friends..

[Ryon21]

I see what you're saying with those lies being potentially "white lies" if I understand your jist.

My only bugbear is that despite being "peace-loving", he clearly changes his agenda because Varian died. Perhaps, even before with comics (that are canon) demonstrate him killing a Demon using basically the Judgement skill. He's had it in him, locked away (possibly feared by Anduin himself that he could turn evil, because let's face it, that cinematic where he healed everyone, that was a big influx of power) so he chose peace to avoid using his power for conflict.
But in his idleness, he went against him with probably the single biggest blow to him. His father is the only known relative he's had all his life. And that was taken by something like the Legion that was far more formidable than anything on Azeroth itself, peace served nothing in the face of adversity. That cinematic we saw, Genn is pretty much us as an audience, we watched the boy become basically a man. Velen knew all along what Anduin was capable of because he's seen him personally as a tutor.

I think personally these "lies" will be something that Anduin does in ignorant that costs them. Or something like, how Genn views Sylvanas' retreat on the Broken Shore. They assumed that they did wrong when it wasn't. What I don't get to this very fucking day is how they didn't put two and two together that Vol'jin who they saw Warchief at the time of MoP, didn't wonder where is he when Sylvanas was claimed Warchief after the Broken Shore battle. But I digress.

As for C'Thun, despite being "dead", during Cataclysm we had Cho'gall the entire time he was active try and resurrect the Old God - it's why one head went insane and talking old 'truths' like Old Gods influences do and gained multiple eyes, he was constantly in his aura and it tainted him.
I mean let's actually look at this properly. We have 'killed' 2 Old Gods. A Titan killed 1 Old God and why other became imprisoned and we arrived on the scene to down the rest. If they could die another way, surely the Titans would do it rather then imprison them. Also, if we killed them wouldn't that fuck up Azeroth already? And twice. A death of an Old God caused the Well of Eternity and forever wounded Azeroth. Where's that from C'Thun and Yogg'Saron deaths?
Back to the actual dead Old God, we had Y'Sharrj haunt Pandaria, it still was maiming people even when he was dead, like officially dead and killed by a Titan. If that dude is dead and still actively causing mayhem, how comes C'Thun and Yogg'Saron have not done anything because "we killed" them. Azeroth may be going crazy, or worse crying from the sword but that wasn't from those Old Gods.
Nu uh, we just simply knocked them out cold or put them into a stasis. I can't in any regard believe we are just as powerful as a Titan, we are nobodies to an extent especially back then so I reckon C'Thun is still there just dormant. To further enhance my suspicion that he is back, Khadgar himself said, any enemy will now venture to Azeroth seeking out the power as it's that powerful. Now add the fact that if Blizzard could let it stab ANYWHERE in the world, it was magically Silithus. And if you want to get even dumber, they also updated the models for the Aqir specifically even though we have 2 new world continents for the next expansion to explore...

I agree with C'thun being just dormant. This guys aren't easily killed. About the good-guy part, yes, he has changed for sure. But with the Legion, he knew all of them were bad while he knows there's good people in the Horde. If he can stop the war against them, he'd do anything to do it and save people.

My only issue with this theory is the timeline. So Anduin gives this speech and then we're immediately wisked away to Silithus. We don't know exactly how long has passed between the speech and our arrival in Silithus. Ogmot's journal has the goblins arriving in Silithus on page 3, and the lie being told on page 5. We arrive after page 10. It seems like the lie had to have happened before the speech, unless it took us a long time to get from Stormwind to Silithus, which on page 7 it says "many days have past without a vision", implying it was a longer period of time between page 6 and 7.

Now I get that time isn't really shown in-game compared to in lore. It may have taken weeks to get from Stormwind to Silithus after Anduin's speech, but it's hard to tell.

Also I hope Anduin isn't the "boy king", it fits too perfectly and Old Gods are more about riddles and twists.

The world is huge lore-wise but yeah, you could be right. A shame that time is so inconsistent in-game. About the boy-king, my initial thoughts were the same, still hoping that it is the Lich King and not Anduin, but you know Blizzard.

the lie is not what you think and not from who you think

Who is it then... please tell me!

So where are the spoilers?

The Saurfang part. He talking with Anduin is part of the datamining so people may not know.

He doesn't have any friends..

Poor Anduin...

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[Al Gorefiend]

While a racial civil war within the factions is certainly possible, I really, really cannot imagine the Draenei taking up arms against humans/dwarves/gnomes and killing them.

Saurfang and the Draenor Orcs joining the Alliance seems way more plausible as improbable as is it is.

Don't forget the Allied races. I can see all 3 alliance ones sticking with the Humans and even most Worgen aswell(most of the important ones).

The divide in the Horde would probably see the nightborne going east, while Zandalari and Highmountain going west. Goblins though, i see going 50/50 with the decent ones staying in Org and the sellouts(which mind you are fewer and fewer now) going to UC.

I think it would be cool to see a divide in the factions, obviously gameplay would keep us in our factions, but quests and lore can have the divide growing more.

I don't see an expansion about civil wars within both factions happening because it's goofy as fuck.

Oh both factions' internal struggles have reached a boiling point of no return, and civil war has broken out at the same time? That definitely doesn't seem like Blizzard is trying to give each faction equal treatment.

I don't think they'd resort to just outright killing eachother, though some bloodshed through minor skirmishes could really put an interesting twist on the lore. Like Night Elves forcibly removing some explorer's league dwarves and humans from Kalimdor, or a group of Tauren kicking Goblin ass for destroying pieces of the Barrens.

Aside from a few instances of war, the factions dissolving would be a huge story point to jump off of for multiple expansions down the line. Keep in mind it was only 10 years before Vanilla WoW that Night Elves WERE killing humans and dwarves with as little prejudice they gave to Orcs. It could very well be fresh in some Stormwind citizens' minds that Night Elves are savages.

It'd be a cool narrative to see just how some races truly feel about eachother. Surely Blood Elves don't think very highly of trolls and Orcs, Tauren cannot possibly be fond of Goblins, and maybe Gnomes even begin questioning their place in the Alliance military.

I could see a splinter group forming from civil unrest in the Alliance over Anduin's actions. To the point he causes Night Elves, or Draenei, or even Worgen to just be like "okay, screw this kid, he's not capable of leading us" and a rebellion arises, like maybe led by Shandris or Maiev. Who are so anti-peace they grow fed up with Anduin's compassion for Orcs that they lead their own assaults on Orgrimmar against his orders.

The Horde civil war starting is practically writing itself.

As for "them both happening at the same time" sounding too video-gamey, one can form as a direct action of the other. Like Sylvanas not retaliating to a slaughtering of Orcs or Trolls because meh their lives don't matter.

[ThePallyRanger]

I don't think they'd resort to just outright killing eachother, though some bloodshed through minor skirmishes could really put an interesting twist on the lore. Like Night Elves forcibly removing some explorer's league dwarves and humans from Kalimdor, or a group of Tauren kicking Goblin ass for destroying pieces of the Barrens.

Aside from a few instances of war, the factions dissolving would be a huge story point to jump off of for multiple expansions down the line. Keep in mind it was only 10 years before Vanilla WoW that Night Elves WERE killing humans and dwarves with as little prejudice they gave to Orcs. It could very well be fresh in some Stormwind citizens' minds that Night Elves are savages.

It'd be a cool narrative to see just how some races truly feel about eachother. Surely Blood Elves don't think very highly of trolls and Orcs, Tauren cannot possibly be fond of Goblins, and maybe Gnomes even begin questioning their place in the Alliance military.

I could see a splinter group forming from civil unrest in the Alliance over Anduin's actions. To the point he causes Night Elves, or Draenei, or even Worgen to just be like "okay, screw this kid, he's not capable of leading us" and a rebellion arises, like maybe led by Shandris or Maiev. Who are so anti-peace they grow fed up with Anduin's compassion for Orcs that they lead their own assaults on Orgrimmar against his orders.

The Horde civil war starting is practically writing itself.

As for "them both happening at the same time" sounding too video-gamey, one can form as a direct action of the other. Like Sylvanas not retaliating to a slaughtering of Orcs or Trolls because meh their lives don't matter.

Velen and the Draenei seem too wise, patient, and experienced to goofily participate in a rebellion and start shit.

[MikeBogina]

I don't think they'd resort to just outright killing eachother, though some bloodshed through minor skirmishes could really put an interesting twist on the lore. Like Night Elves forcibly removing some explorer's league dwarves and humans from Kalimdor, or a group of Tauren kicking Goblin ass for destroying pieces of the Barrens.

Aside from a few instances of war, the factions dissolving would be a huge story point to jump off of for multiple expansions down the line. Keep in mind it was only 10 years before Vanilla WoW that Night Elves WERE killing humans and dwarves with as little prejudice they gave to Orcs. It could very well be fresh in some Stormwind citizens' minds that Night Elves are savages.

It'd be a cool narrative to see just how some races truly feel about eachother. Surely Blood Elves don't think very highly of trolls and Orcs, Tauren cannot possibly be fond of Goblins, and maybe Gnomes even begin questioning their place in the Alliance military.

I could see a splinter group forming from civil unrest in the Alliance over Anduin's actions. To the point he causes Night Elves, or Draenei, or even Worgen to just be like "okay, screw this kid, he's not capable of leading us" and a rebellion arises, like maybe led by Shandris or Maiev. Who are so anti-peace they grow fed up with Anduin's compassion for Orcs that they lead their own assaults on Orgrimmar against his orders.

The Horde civil war starting is practically writing itself.

As for "them both happening at the same time" sounding too video-gamey, one can form as a direct action of the other. Like Sylvanas not retaliating to a slaughtering of Orcs or Trolls because meh their lives don't matter.

As long as Goblin players can do the quest along the Tauren npcs kicking the Goblins out. Making too much content for so few to do is counter productive in this game setting. Reason why we don't have a 3rd faction. I dont think we'll ever get to fighting each other if the factions had a major divide, unless it was only like cinematics or scripted events like Garrosh and Thrall fighting in Orgrimmar's arena, where we don't take part of it.

We had the siege of Orgrimmar and despite a good amount of players including myself complaining that we would have rather fought as defenders, there's no way they could let us because there was a story to push.

Keep in mind it was only 10 years before Vanilla WoW that Night Elves WERE killing humans and dwarves with as little prejudice they gave to Orcs.

year 21 to 25, only 4 years actually and yeah, they haven't been allies long. I can see the Night Elves getting sick of fighting in the alliances battles and being told what to do by some kid, especially a kid who took pity on Garrosh.

But all that said, I really want warcraft 4 to happen already, so we can get more than these 2 factions and factions can fall even if you're playing as them(you can't kill off or remove a playable race in wow) like how Arthas turns around and destroy Lordaeron, quelthalas and Dalaran.