Anti-gay 'vote Putin' video goes viral in Russia

[Moralgy]

I really don't understand what you are trying to accomplish here. You seem to just be tossing as much shit in the air to hope something sticks.

Why can't you say "Yeah, Russian are really homophobic, but that's fine because we want to be that way. It's our culture."

.

I feel that person is trying to get people to say "yea its fine that Russian culture hates gay people" or something through shit flinging.

[Lenonis]

I feel that person is trying to get people to say "yea its fine that Russian culture hates gay people" or something through shit flinging.

Which is fine. If you want to make the argument that we should respect another country's culture then fine. Have that argument.

But what is going on is this weird admission that all the evidence that points to homophobia in Russia is true while simulaneously flailing around trying to deflect (but never deny) from that fact into prison culture, the environment you are raised in as genetics, and there was a thing in the US one time so it's all the same.

[Shalcker]

completely irrelevant. Even if the victims were straight if they were attacked because the attackers thought they were gay it's still a hate crime with homophobic intent.

You mean applying Article 282 to attackers? Well, it is a possibility; such attacks are too rare to see it in practice though, plus not many would sufficiently trust judicial system in such case.

Newsflash -- children gaining bigoted views form their parents doesn't make it genetic. I can't believe you even tried that.

Or, alternatively, you're simply teaching them to suppress perfectly natural disgust responses for straight men.

Switching oppression from one group to another, though perhaps milder; perhaps we're simply more free to express our reaction in Russia.

Irrelevant and frankly really weird that you even brought it up.

Why exactly do you think it is irrelevant? By estimates up to 18-19% of Russians might have some kind of criminal conviction through their lifetime, even more have some as relatives or family members; that is a lot more significant then percentage of gay people (which is generally considered to be around 2-5%).

I showed that Russian views are pervasively homophobic so your whole "that's just Chechen" is a lie.

So you claim that Russians think gays should be rounded into re-education camps, and think torture (and occasional death) is perfectly fine to change their ways? On basis that 83% consider homosexuality disgusting?

Seriously?

Because that is Chechen position on issue - they claim (even their local Human Rights defender, clashing with authorities all the time!) that literally no gays exist in their republic, and that they are going to keep it that way.

Why would that be a surprise? Anti vaccination views stem from extreme ignorance on the subject -- which would also exist when they were first introduced.

That would imply that it is literally impossible to change such views, despite all evidence of them being wrong.

Which doesn't bode well for general homosexuality acceptance.

[Lenonis]

Yeah.... Enough. Your arguments have gotten beyond absurd into just flat out offensive. That's as much of a response as I can make before I get an infraction.

[Shalcker]

Yeah.... Enough. Your arguments have gotten beyond absurd into just flat out offensive. That's as much of a response as I can make before I get an infraction.

Your admission of defeat and lack of reasoned response is noted.

[Orbitus]

Your admission of defeat and lack of reasoned response is noted.

And your lying is also noted. But that is standard practice from a paid shill.

[Shalcker]

And your lying is also noted. But that is standard practice from a paid shill.

Your usual non-contribution is noted too.

[Orbitus]

Your usual non-contribution is noted too.

Nothing really to contribute to a known liar and paid shill.

[Thepersona]

Russia, or at least much of it, has re-embraced Orthodox Christian faith, and even a small very active Pagan community grows there. I suspect Gay Rights might not endure this revival.

In fact, the USSR was more liberal than Russia in the LGBT department (and in the treatment of women)

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Nothing really to contribute to a known liar and paid shill.

why people still respond yo him?

[Noradin]

No, it is because primary goal of family in Russia is children (note them being quite visible in that definition); and at current scientific advancement level that necessitates man and woman (and penis + vagina).

So people who cannot get children cannot get married?
What is the maximum age at which a woman is allowed to get married?

[Shalcker]

In fact, the USSR was more liberal than Russia in the LGBT department (and in the treatment of women)

By having homosexuality being considered criminal offence? Really?

[Noradin]

It dilutes benefit pool, spreading it across higher number of recipients.

Then you automatically void all marriages when the partners are past a certain age?

[Shalcker]

So people who cannot get children cannot get married?
What is the maximum age at which a woman is allowed to get married?

They can as by-product of marriage being defined as something between man and woman and only having lower age limit in law.

That doesn't change primary goal, however; any changes to law(s) would need to have primary goal in mind when deciding if change is or isn't warranted.


Btw, current highest age of childbirth is 72 from mother side; plenty of men do not lose fertility at all.

[Noradin]

They can as by-product of marriage being defined as something between man and woman and only having lower age limit in law.

So you are fine with an exception for them but not for homosexuals (who can in fact have and raise children, too, homosexual does not mean sterile).
Thank you for proving my point.

[Shalcker]

So you are fine with an exception for them but not for homosexuals (who can in fact have and raise children, too, homosexual does not mean sterile).
Thank you for proving my point.

Exceptions that are to be made right now need to have primary goal in mind.

Exceptions that are already supported by culture and laws are fine.

This cannot be said for homosexual couples.

[Noradin]

Exceptions that are to be made right now need to have primary goal in mind.

Exceptions that are already supported by culture and laws are fine.

This cannot be said for homosexual couples.

Yes, that is what I thought you would say.
I think you are being a coward, affraid to think for yourself and hiding behind tradition so you do not have to admit to your own homophobia.

[Shalcker]

Yes, that is what I thought you would say.
I think you are being a coward, affraid to think for yourself and hiding behind tradition so you do not have to admit to your own homophobia.

I think you are unwilling to consider paths other cultures take in process of societal improvement, and thinking your current particular way is best while ignoring all efforts that got you there.

I have nothing against gay marriage; i have doubts that gay marriage should take priority as an issue and skip all the steps such acceptance required before it became first sufficiently accepted as idea, and then legal in West.

The only way it could happen fast "enough" for what you seem to want is through basically dictatorial decree; and that would change nothing as far as gay beatings go.

[Kaleredar]

I'm more interested why your media mentions gays and doesn't notice blacks.

Probably because there are more gay people in Russia than black people.


And you're really burying the lede, here. I'd call it whataboutism, but I think even whataboutism would be embarrased by it.

"Well sure the video is homophobic, but isn't your media just hypocritical for not ALSO talking about how it portrays black people in a poor manner? Boy your media is the worst. What were we talking about, again?"

[Noradin]

I think you are unwilling to consider paths other cultures take in process of societal improvement, and thinking your current particular way is best while ignoring all efforts that got you there.

I have nothing against gay marriage; i have doubts that gay marriage should take priority as an issue and skip all the steps such acceptance required before it became first sufficiently accepted as idea, and then legal in West.

The only way it could happen fast "enough" for what you seem to want is through basically dictatorial decree; and that would change nothing as far as gay beatings go.

That is a "general you", right?
Because I did not make enough posts in this thread for you to have anymore than guesswork for you to make these claims about my supposed stance on this.
You on the other hand demonstrated your state of mind regarding this in several posts. It's quite telling.

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People still replying to Shillcker are not very intelligent people.

We aren't replying for his benefit.
I do not think any here labour under the delusion that he might change what views he expresses here because of post we make anytime soon.

[Shalcker]

"Well sure the video is homophobic, but isn't your media just hypocritical for not ALSO talking about how it portrays black people in a poor manner? Boy your media is the worst. What were we talking about, again?"

You should see actual homophobic stuff... this one is actually TV-friendly, almost affectionate. But sure, it stereotypes them as something average man doesn't want to see in their flat (woman doesn't mind him though).

Western media have been "championing rights of gays" for a while. Just another imperialistic ploy creating "persecuted group" to legitimize their interventions/sanctions.

Go to Saudis over it to not look hypocritical; at least in Russia being homosexual is actually legal.

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That is a "general you", right?
Because I did not make enough posts in this thread for you to have anymore than guesswork for you to make these claims about my supposed stance on this.

Okay, do you want to state your personal stance then, or do you want to keep it ambiguous to dodge any criticism?

How would you approach changing Russia to accept homosexuality and same sex marriage? Clearly telling "you're wrong, stop it!" isn't working.