Facts do matter

[Mormolyce]

There are a bunch of videos on YouTube of verious different philosophers talking about the dangers of it.

In a nutshell, it’s a rebuke of enlightenment era philosophy and values.

Yes, I am familiar with philosophy, history, and dipshit Youtube videos.

[Mormolyce]

That’s nice. I’m glad we had this talk.

It's always fun having a philosophical discussion with someone who is completely ignorant of the topic and is trying to piece it together from a screed written by a cranky motivational speaker.

[Mormolyce]

I’m glad you have that image of me in your mind.

I mean, nobody's stopping you from proving me wrong.

[Vankrys]

Republicans do not want to bring the battle of the field of logic or facts.

- Climate change is a very documented phenomenon, supported by 97% or more of scientists and experts. That's a fact.

- Trickle down economy simply doesn't work, it's been tried 40 years ago, it's a known fact.

- Mass shootings are closely related to availability of guns, especially assault type. Less gun, less mass shootings, fact too.

- Universal Healthcare is a far better health system, works wonder in other nations, and cheaper too.

- Illegal immigrants, although illegal, are needed in rich countries like the US. Let's face it, you educate your youth, give them engineering degree. They don't want low wage manual labor after 4 years in college. Without immigrant, a lot of essential manual work positions would be vacant.

[Trifle]

Truth is useless because in the realm of politics we are rarely discussing simple binary things of "Objectively correct versus Objectively not-correct", but instead asking questions of what one wants to do, be or have their life be about. These questions lack a "correct" answer really.

Also because when it comes to politics, apparently 2 + 2 = 5 is true, because we apparently misunderstood one of the 2s and really it's a 3. Despite looking like an awful lot like a 2.

[Theodarzna]

Also because when it comes to politics, apparently 2 + 2 = 5 is true, because we apparently misunderstood one of the 2s and really it's a 3. Despite looking like an awful lot like a 2.

Politics is not a series of objective truth claims, but attempts to answer "What ought we be or do?" And these questions do not have answers with mathematical precision.

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Why do you think I am here to prove anything? I’m here for entertainment. You guys entertain me, with the added interactive information and data.

I see you've encountered grammatically correct sarahtasher.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The Truth is subjective and it always has been in practice, theory is always another matter. Whether one is working from one body of knowledge or another it makes no difference, human beings are creatures of emotion, and bias, you will always find that, this includes research and experiments.


TL: DR
Facts actually don't matter in practice, and never have.

There is a reason NASA was always underfunded and Pro Sports has made billions

[Theodarzna]

I think that is why I like the "ideals" approach that the constitution takes (as hypocritical as the actual founding fathers were on the topics themselves).

It sets out a sort of broad "what we stand for" outline for the country... and lets people interpret how that looks for the time we live in.

The ideal for "justice" for instance, will not look the "same" from era to era, though it will be "themed" simlerally, if there is a good faith debate going on.

I'm torn on the matter. On the one hand, there is the considerable difficulty of basing a country on Civics which have a habit of changing over time and schisming quickly. Look for example at Korea, or really any country where the Civics ultimately failed. Ideals and values have a habit of changing many times in a human lifetime and schisms become extremely problematic. Plus in a democracy the Civics cannot be sacred, people have to be free to disagree with them which undermines the unifying characteristic of the country.

Civics would be great, but I suspect that a country founded on that would undermine democracy and also be doomed and ill fated for inevitably it will emerge that we got it wrong in some way but we are unable to change because the Civic order underpinned the whole country and without it the country disintegrates.

[Lenonis]

The Truth is subjective

Pretty sure that the truth is objective. What is subjective is people's interpretations of said truth.

For example. The truth is that Andrew Wakefield's paper was retracted because it was found to be falsified.

Person 1: That means vaccines don't cause autism.
Person 2: This is proof that vaccines do cause autism because you can see the truth is being shut down by the deep state.

Perhaps that's what you meant "in practice" but I firmly reject any notion that truth itself is subjective.

[Destump]

yeah, facts do matter. But both sides have their fantasies(even though I think republican's fantasies are far more dangerous atm than left wing fantasies)

for example:

Some people on the right do not believe in climate change. The proof says otherwise of course, in multiple studies.


Some people on the left believe that Caitlin Jenner is now a female. the proof says otherwise of course, he has x and y chromosomes.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Pretty sure that the truth is objective. What is subjective is people's interpretations of said truth.

I am sure you believe that is true, so do I, but the application in the real world does not match at all.

For example. The truth is that Andrew Wakefield's paper was retracted because it was found to be falsified.

Person 1: That means vaccines don't cause autism.
Person 2: This is proof that vaccines do cause autism because you can see the truth is being shut down by the deep state.

Perhaps that's what you meant "in practice" but I firmly reject any notion that truth itself is subjective.

You can reject it all you want but as long as we have your truth, and my truth, or facts and alternative facts, where everybody can agree to disagree, we aren't even going to solve this problem, it's going to to remain the same.

It isn't the left snowflakes who are running for their safe spaces, it's often times those on the right and those that placate in the middle.

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yeah, facts do matter. But both sides have their fantasies(even though I think republican's fantasies are far more dangerous atm than left wing fantasies)

for example:

Some people on the right do not believe in climate change. The proof says otherwise of course, in multiple studies.


Some people on the left believe that Caitlin Jenner is now a female. the proof says otherwise of course, he has x and y chromosomes.

Here goes the complete utter nonsense I am talking about as an example, and honestly this level of ignorance and vying for validation really needs to be called out for what it is.

[Destump]

Here goes the complete utter nonsense I am talking about as an example, and honestly this level of ignorance and vying for validation really needs to be called out for what it is.

please explain to me exactly what i said was nonsense? because I have no idea. the two things I mentioned are provable facts. this thread is about the fact that facts matter. sooo....

[Doctor Amadeus]

please explain to me exactly what i said was nonsense? because I have no idea. the two things I mentioned are provable facts. this thread is about the fact that facts matter. sooo....

No because I don’t want to take the chance you believe I want to change your mind or care about what you believe. The worst would be you thinking I want you on my side or see you as anything other than Alt-right yourself.

What you said is simply nonsense, comparing apples to oranges to validate some middle ground credit. You aren’t in my opinion. Global Warming being compared to gender reassignment is garbage.

[Destump]

No because I don’t want to take the chance you believe I want to change your mind or care about what you believe. The worst would be you thinking I want you on my side or see you as anything other than Alt-right yourself.

What you said is simply nonsense, comparing apples to oranges to validate some middle ground credit. You aren’t in my opinion. Global Warming being compared to gender reassignment is garbage.

Which was kind of my point? they are both true, but one is far worse and more dangerous, which I said in my 1st post..

i did not intend to say that these two things are on the same level, not even close. Maybe I should have been clearer? idk

[Mormolyce]

Why do you think I am here to prove anything? I’m here for entertainment. You guys entertain me, with the added interactive information and data.

Then you're fine with it, so stop your bitching.

[Mormolyce]

I've been bitching? I am pretty sure I have been saying I've been glad for you.

And I was saying it's fun.

So basically, we're both entertained by trolling each other and everyone's happy.