Why AU Orcs are a good thing and Outland Orcs don't matter.

[sumerian999]

The Alternate Universe happened. Even though WoD is remembered as the worst expansion in WoW history, we cannot completely ignore it.

The Horde forces have always been less numerous than the Alliance from a Lore perspective. Their numbers must've seriously suffered with all the conflicts happening since the end of the Third War. Legion has been a massive blow to both factions, and I suspect both must've lost close to 50% of their standing armies (speculation) during the war.

With the Highmountain Tauren and Nightborne being ''fresh'' and large populations (comparatively less affected by conflict than the Horde in the past 14 years), the Horde can replenish its numbers quite well.

The same goes with the AU Orcs. The original orcs are a warrior/shamanistic race. Facing challenges is in their blood. Even though the conflict in WoD hit them hard, their population must still be quite high. They are -ripe- for recruitment. AU Grom Hellscream was impressed by the Alliance and the Horde's ''unbreakable will'' towards the end of WoD, and it goes to say Grom respects ''honorable'' strength (despite *cough* being willing to annihilate the local Draenei).

Of course, Grom Hellscream was always impetuous and one for challenge and adventure (MU and AU). After WoD, we can assume he had to ''stabilize'' relations with Durotan and Yrel, given his past mistake of falling for Garrosh's rhetoric (which is a big point of contention for all Lore fans : why wasn't he punished, since his original intent was genocidal towards the Draenei and everyone else who wasn't an orc).

Even then, geopolitics is a game of circumstances. When the situation is somewhat desperate, one can be tempted to turn a blind eye to past history. Sylvanas WANTS more troops, and she isn't one for ''ethics'' in the game of politics. If she can recruit more reliable manpower, she'll do it.

From a gameplay/customization perspective, all you need is the AU orcs really.

1) Their skins seem to allow players to be of every possible clan in AU Draenor. It will allow you to fulfill any orc customization fantasy : want to be Blackhand, Garrosh or Grom Hellscream? Here's your customization, now go farm your mogs!

2) It doesn't matter if they're not from Outland, quite simply because the way they can be customized allows players to look exactly like an Outland Mag'har. You'll easily be able to pretend to be an Outland orc.

3) You can assume many Outland Mag'har have already joined the Horde since TBC. Dranosh Saurfang and Garrosh Hellscream symbolize that. It's just that players couldn't play them yet. You can argue some of Yrel's followers have also joined the Alliance since WoD (it's just they don't have different customization; but as it is, you can pretend to be an AU Draenei).

Bringing Grom Hellscream (and AU Durotan) back is easy with such circumstances, and can provide MANY fanservice moments (Thrall spending time with Grom/Durotan, explaining his universe and the MU versions of their characters to them). But for Yrel, they'd have to bring her back without a ''new'' race, which is a bit more complicated since she doesn't have anything new to bring with her (since MU and AU Draenei are identical from a customization perspective).

With the Highmountain, Nightborne, Zandalari and AU Orcs, the Horde stands to replenish its numbers better than the Alliance I feel. That is because those populations are, in total, higher than the Alliance reinforcements. Lightforged and Void Elves are the main reason for that : they're smaller populations than the Highmountain and Highborne. They're ''elite'' squads of Light and Void mastery, which can compensate their lower numbers. United Dark Iron dwarves and Kul'tiras human will provide more numerous reinforcements to the Alliance.

[Benomatic]

They aren't.

We went through WoD. Travelled 35 years in the past to an alternative timeline to end an invasion of the Iron Horde.

We ended the Iron Horde threat and repelled the legion invasion.

We allied ourselves with Grommash.

Now AU WoD orcs are POSSIBLY joining our universe horde?

We now wage war against orcs we allied with, liberated and who aided us?

These same orcs now wage war on the Draenei AGAIN? and the Alliance?

Horde have every right to be nuked from orbit! How many more times does Azeroth have to suffer its idiocy?

[sumerian999]

They aren't.

We went through WoD. Travelled 35 years in the past to an alternative timeline to end an invasion of the Iron Horde.

We ended the Iron Horde threat and repelled the legion invasion.

We allied ourselves with Grommash.

Now AU WoD orcs are POSSIBLY joining our universe horde?

We now wage war against orcs we allied with, liberated and who aided us?

These same orcs now wage war on the Draenei AGAIN? and the Alliance?

Horde have every right to be nuked from orbit! How many more times does Azeroth have to suffer its idiocy?

What are you going to do about it?

It's not the first time old allies became enemies in the Warcraft Universe.

The Alliance was once allied with the Blood Elves, but Garithos and later, Jaina, screwed everything. The Alliance was once united agaisn't the Old Horde. Now, only the Void and High Elves seem to keep caring about this past Alliance, with 90%-95% of the Blood Elf population still siding with the Horde that once annihilated their forests in the Second War (see Alleria's rage at Sylvanas regarding that).

Alliance and Horde made a truce during the Third War, TBC, Wotlk, Cataclysm (partly), WoD and Legion, because of greater threats. We're STILL at each other's throats because different interests, ideologies, and historical wounds. The Legion Orders recruited from both Horde and Alliance, and yet, these temporary alliances will shatter for the most part in BfA. In the absence of a common threat, faction loyalty is a priority.

What about Death Knights? What about the Illidari? They were all enemies in the past. Circumstances changed their standing with us, even though things can be a bit tense (see Ebon Blade assault on Light's Hope during Legion).

You can't stop the AU Orcs from having adventure and fun, despite past mistakes or actions. War is coming, and the present and future matter more than the past.

And by the way, I'm Alliance. I don't ''love'' the orcs as such, I'm simply bringing an argument as to why it makes sense for the AU Orcs to join the Horde.

[Benomatic]

It doesn't make sense. That is the thing. AU Orcs haven't experienced what the MU Orcs have. They have a chance of peace and prosperity. We all aided them to secure their home and THEIR future.

AU Orcs risking their peace and tranquility is foolish. Makes no sense.

Dragging victors from a land of avoided disaster and catastrophe to a world of uncertainty and conflict is idiotic.

- - - Updated - - -

What are you going to do about it?

Which part do you need help with?

[sumerian999]

It doesn't make sense. That is the thing. AU Orcs haven't experienced what the MU Orcs have. They have a chance of peace and prosperity. We all aided them to secure their home and THEIR future.

AU Orcs risking their peace and tranquility is foolish. Makes no sense.

Dragging victors from a land of avoided disaster and catastrophe to a world of uncertainty and conflict is idiotic.

- - - Updated - - -

Which part do you need help with?

If it can reassure you, maybe Blizzard is going the way of ''only VOLUNTEER'' Mag'har join the battle. Those who want peace can remain on AU Draenor which will remain a somewhat neutral territory.

I mean, imagine being an AU Orc or Draenei. Discovering there's a huge MU out there that has lived countless conflicts and adventures, unknown to the AU. It must be a huge realization! That you are not alone, and that another version of your peoples exist in some other dimension, fighting for another future of uncertainty.

If I was an adventurous orc, after WoD, I would jump into the fight without hesitating. It's an occasion few adventurers would miss. Some, if not most Mag'har would want to remain on Draenor, while others would be ''what is this universe this Horde and Alliance came from? What battles do they fight and what world do they live in?''.

Fact is...A recurring theme in WoW's storytelling is that once you get entangled with the important factions of Warcraft, the call for conflict and adventure is inevitable. AU Draenor tasted OUR world and our peoples, and we are forever bound to them in one way or another because of WoD and our common fight agaisn't the Legion. They can never forget what happened with us, and neither can we. Our worlds will remain connected forever. Just as Outland and Azeroth will always remain bound by history and magic.

[Sioliar]

The Alliance was once allied with the Blood Elves, but Garithos and later, Jaina, screwed everything. The Alliance was once united agaisn't the Old Horde. Now, only the Void and High Elves seem to keep caring about this past Alliance, with 90%-95% of the Blood Elf population still siding with the Horde that once annihilated their forests in the Second War (see Alleria's rage at Sylvanas regarding that).

*Ahem* Reflecting on its misuse in the past and its potential for future misuse, Kalecgos ordered the Focusing Iris moved to a more secure location - encased in enchanted ice, magically warded, and dumped at the bottom of the Frozen Sea. However, the dragons sent to escort it were ambushed and killed by members of the Horde, who stole the Focusing Iris and used it to construct an enormous mana bomb to obliterate Theramore Isle.

And in regards to the topic, Mag'har would make more sense as they are closer related to the current Horde than AU Orcs and have more reasons to join in. Unless ofcourse, they will be joining Alliance but that is pure Heresy.

But in the end it doesn't matter which one we get. The lore is dead in this game, so whatever.

[sumerian999]

The Alliance was once allied with the Blood Elves, but Garithos and later, Jaina, screwed everything. The Alliance was once united agaisn't the Old Horde. Now, only the Void and High Elves seem to keep caring about this past Alliance, with 90%-95% of the Blood Elf population still siding with the Horde that once annihilated their forests in the Second War (see Alleria's rage at Sylvanas regarding that).

*Ahem* Reflecting on its misuse in the past and its potential for future misuse, Kalecgos ordered the Focusing Iris moved to a more secure location - encased in enchanted ice, magically warded, and dumped at the bottom of the Frozen Sea. However, the dragons sent to escort it were ambushed and killed by members of the Horde, who stole the Focusing Iris and used it to construct an enormous mana bomb to obliterate Theramore Isle.

And in regards to the topic, Mag'har would make more sense as they are closer related to the current Horde than AU Orcs and have more reasons to join in. Unless ofcourse, they will be joining Alliance but that is pure Heresy.

But in the end it doesn't matter which one we get. The lore is dead in this game, so whatever.

I know Jaina's anger is justified and motivated by the Horde's actions under Garrosh. But the fact is, it was ultimately the purge of Dalaran that aborted the Varian/Lor'themar negociations. I think Jaina's reactions IS right considering her point of view (and she was unaware of the negociations Varian was trying to accomplish). I'm not bashing her. My point still stands.

Recent datamining of AU Orcs flirts and jokes seem to indicate they'll be Horde : http://www.wowhead.com/news=282150/m...kes-and-flirts

One quote : ''Ahhhhhh! The chiropractor in Orgrimmar has done wonders for my back.''

The Lore in this game is so dead you're on this forum still debating about it. So spare me the ''whatevers I don't care''.

[Evangeliste]

It doesn't make sense. That is the thing. AU Orcs haven't experienced what the MU Orcs have. They have a chance of peace and prosperity. We all aided them to secure their home and THEIR future.

AU Orcs risking their peace and tranquility is foolish. Makes no sense.

Dragging victors from a land of avoided disaster and catastrophe to a world of uncertainty and conflict is idiotic.

- - - Updated - - -

Which part do you need help with?

AU Orcs will eventually see Burning Legion again so there will not be "peace and prosperity" I still don't get how people saw all that happened with Argus and not twigged what's clearly there in AU. Why isn't there peace? Because what we fought in MU, with Illidan ultimately watching over the man in charge, Sargeras. In MU, Argus is no longer here and Sargeras idle but in AU Draenor, Argus will still be there. That's obvious because Sargeras and Argus had to be around for the Burning Legion to exist, even Archimonde to appear as well so. In AU, without them then who sends the Legion? Only Sargeras and without him the Legion would have never been there to chase the Draenei to Draenor in AU in the first place nor see Tanaan Jungle descend into Legion disco. In MU the Outland is safer since MU got rid of Argus. Outland is MU's universe despite being thousands of years travel away, and not AU.

[Sioliar]

Yeah, except these jokes contradict themself a lil' there.

"Hey... aren't you the one who left that abandoned garrison littering up Frostfire?" And, "Drahnor. Draynor? Draanur. Draenor. <Sigh>. I'm just gonna say I'm from Outland."

Not to mention the name itself Mag'har should mean 'uncorrupted' and there wasn't a whole lot of corrupt orcs for them to call themself that way.

But in the end, until we hear more details we won't know for certain.

[Caaethil]

They have a chance of peace and prosperity.

Which is probably why they want out. Because they're orcs. The whole reason they made the Iron Horde to invade Azeroth was because it'd be cool, not because they needed to.

[Deathgoose]

I don't have a problem with the AU Orcs.

I have a problem with AU Grom. He should have been executed by a Durotan/Yrel tag-team.

[Benomatic]

AU Orcs will eventually see Burning Legion again so there will not be "peace and prosperity" I still don't get how people saw all that happened with Argus and not twigged what's clearly there in AU. Why isn't there peace? Because what we fought in MU, with Illidan ultimately watching over the man in charge, Sargeras. In MU, Argus is no longer here and Sargeras idle but in AU Draenor, Argus will still be there. That's obvious because Sargeras and Argus had to be around for the Burning Legion to exist, even Archimonde to appear as well so. In AU, without them then who sends the Legion? Only Sargeras and without him the Legion would have never been there to chase the Draenei to Draenor in AU in the first place nor see Tanaan Jungle descend into Legion disco. In MU the Outland is safer since MU got rid of Argus. Outland is MU's universe despite being thousands of years travel away, and not AU.

Their Sargeras is our Sargeras

[Evangeliste]

Their Sargeras is our Sargeras

Titans can't descend timelines. Unlike Demons.

[sumerian999]

AU Orcs will eventually see Burning Legion again so there will not be "peace and prosperity" I still don't get how people saw all that happened with Argus and not twigged what's clearly there in AU. Why isn't there peace? Because what we fought in MU, with Illidan ultimately watching over the man in charge, Sargeras. In MU, Argus is no longer here and Sargeras idle but in AU Draenor, Argus will still be there. That's obvious because Sargeras and Argus had to be around for the Burning Legion to exist, even Archimonde to appear as well so. In AU, without them then who sends the Legion? Only Sargeras and without him the Legion would have never been there to chase the Draenei to Draenor in AU in the first place nor see Tanaan Jungle descend into Legion disco. In MU the Outland is safer since MU got rid of Argus. Outland is MU's universe despite being thousands of years travel away, and not AU.

To simplify, it is strongly implied by Blizzard that AU Draenor is a pocket dimension, isolated from other planets.

Even though it has been the subject of much controversy, and is still somewhat unclear, Blizzard seemed to imply WoD's Archimonde was THE Archimonde we faced in the War of the Ancients and Third War. The famously controversial ''There is ONE Legion across all universes'' declaration. Archimonde's mythic phase and cinematic led to confusion : mythic phase was said to be the canon one (as are all mythic phases), implying he truly died for real in the Twisting Nether, but it contradicts the cinematic showing him dying outside of the Twisting Nether. All in all, Blizzard admitted they could have handled that bit better.

I highly doubt Blizzard would make us fight the Legion again after the latest climactic expansion. People are somewhat fed up of them, at least for now.

All in all, Draenor is done with the Legion, and there's no reason for them to have more Legion stuff to deal with from a ''business'' perspective, and a Lore perspective. We beat the universal bosses of the Legion : Archimonde, Legion and Sargeras.

[Rendark]

The alternate universe may have happened but it shouldn't have. The second they put it in the story went to shit and i stopped carrying about it. We should have just gone back in time instead of the alternate universe crap.

[Evangeliste]

To simplify, it is strongly implied by Blizzard that AU Draenor is a pocket dimension, isolated from other planets.

Even though it has been the subject of much controversy, and is still somewhat unclear, Blizzard seemed to imply WoD's Archimonde was THE Archimonde we faced in the War of the Ancients and Third War. The famously controversial ''There is ONE Legion across all universes'' declaration. Archimonde's mythic phase and cinematic led to confusion : mythic phase was said to be the canon one (as are all mythic phases), implying he truly died for real in the Twisting Nether, but it contradicts the cinematic showing him dying outside of the Twisting Nether. All in all, Blizzard admitted they could have handled that bit better.

I highly doubt Blizzard would make us fight the Legion again after the latest climactic expansion. People are somewhat fed up of them, at least for now.

All in all, Draenor is done with the Legion, and there's no reason for them to have more Legion stuff to deal with from a ''business'' perspective, and a Lore perspective. We beat the universal bosses of the Legion : Archimonde, Legion and Sargeras.

That pocket dimension that I know of is Mardum, the plane of banishment which confuses me really considering well... Yeah. Isn't that the Demon Hunter starting place?

I'm not saying we will fight Legion in AU because that door can be opened and closed accordingly, it's not a definite ongoing occurence like MU but it's the fact that in accordance to how their MU/AU crap work out, Sargeras had to be there for Legion to be there. We can't say for certain but since Aman'thul gave Bronze their charge and MU is the one true timeline, it wouldn't be needed if well Sargeras could transcend them all as well. I mean Sargeras being in every one would make Bronze completely irrelevant but that's how Chronicles have rolled with it so for me personally I enjoy that. Whatever they cook up for the actual Draenor Orc return is a totally different matter and I'm sure I'll roll with unless it is completely out of this world.

I mean me personally, I'd enjoy that prospect even if we never actually went back to AU to see it happen. We don't need to and for the sake of time-travel, don't need to see it either. It could be nicely used though as a means to shift things or other characters that could be picked up from it -if- needed.

[sumerian999]

The alternate universe may have happened but it shouldn't have. The second they put it in the story went to shit and i stopped carrying about it. We should have just gone back in time instead of the alternate universe crap.

Most people agree it's a confusing element from a Lore perspective. But I've come to accept it, simply because the Warcraft Universe is one of rule bending and quite frankly, a mishmash of many concepts that, at first glance, don't necessarily mix well together (time, space, fantasy, science fiction, lovecraft, religion, philosophy, mythology, politics, tons of cultures, etc, etc...). Somehow, this world manages to still work. The execution and explanation of WoD could've been a lot better, I agree, but it's better to exploit the remaining potential of AU Draenor than leave it to rot.

[Benomatic]

Titans can't descend timelines. Unlike Demons.

WoD version of Legion is OUR Legion.

[Evangeliste]

WoD version of Legion is OUR Legion.

You, you carry on. You aren't really listening but ok. Go read Chronicles.

Also read what Elisande says in raid about in every other timeline, the Legion succeed too.

[Aeula]

Anything from the AU is bad.

As much as I enjoyed the storytelling of WoD (At least during questing from 90-100), the story in and of itself was garbage and to this day the whole AU bullshit makes zero sense.