Why legion was probably the worst expansion ever

[crusadernero]

Played since Classic and the only time I really stopped playing was after reaching max level in WoD. Was utter garbage and I didnt touch the game until Legion came out. Legion been good!

[Deleted]

Legion and Vanilla are two very different types of grinds. I personally don't even consider Vanilla to have been a grind.

Quick someone salvage this pure form of nostalgia fast (and his tears when classic is released)

[Zentail]

Along with what others said, I feel like we almost didn't play the same expansion. I'll break your post apart and share my opinion on it.

The Bad Questing was an awful experience. Some of the quests were horribly bugged, would often guide you to a completely wrong location and gave an absolute abysmal amount of experience in the beginning. The questing areas were poorly designed and the terrain was awful to navigate through, so you would often have to make a detour just to get to the right location.

Gearing up was a pain in the ass for fresh characters and you had to go through an absurd amount of time waste just to get good enough gear for LFR. World quests were a joke and would often give you worse gear than you already had.

Blizzard made it possible to buy your gear with nethershards, which is a lazy solution. They later added veiled argunites, which is the same trivial grinding process as nethershards. Same goes for grinding artifact power for your weapons, you just do the same mindless and repetitive grinding to get whatever currency blizzard wants you to get, which sums up the absurd and boring grindfest that was legion.

Questing, I thought, was actually a pretty nice experience for a change. Specifically how they weren't bugged, and they always guided me to the right location. Were you using some Questing addon that was jacked up? I wasn't using any questing addons and nothing seemed wrong to me.

Gearing wasn't a pain at all. It was pretty easy and smooth. I would maybe say it was harder than WotLK, Cata, MoP, and WoD (big maybe), but it was in no way, shape, or form, harder to gear than BC or Classic was to get ready for content. Thanks, in part, to the dungeon finder. Also, World Quests are currently 3 of my best pieces of gear due to Titanforging. I don't know if I agree with the warforge system entirely, but that's another topic.

The nethershards you're complaining about as a "lazy solution" isn't lazy. It's a catch-up mechanic. Without mechanics like that, it would take longer to get into current content. That's not very productive. I would also consider it a nice "compliment" mechanic. I do raids, I get my gear, I like the extra roll for getting a random Legion trinket to maybe titanforge up to what I want (although I actually haven't used my Argulite (or w/e the crap it's called) in weeks now). It's also a super convenient feature for when I get an alt to max level. What you consider lazy, I consider a super good idea that I really wish more games did. It's obviously not a perfect catch-up solution, but it's better than anything else I've seen and you didn't even pitch something you thought was better.

The Ugly LFR is a joke. I realize that its supposed to be for beginners, but seriously. LFR in legion is so mind-numbingly boring and easy that you could literally go out in the kitchen, make a cup of coffe, come back and then pick up your loot. The bosses in LFR are masochists; they don't fight you back, they are just waiting for you to come kill them and grab their treasures.

PvP is problably the worst of any expansion.

LFR is a joke. However, you're implying that it wasn't in previous expansions, which I think is funny if you think it's easier. It's definitely harder now than it has been forever. Definitely not hard, but it's harder than it was. I can AFK the bosses in Legion on LFR. However, before it was so easy I could probably not even attack the bosses and still contribute to the raid somehow (this is exaggerated obviously, but if your point regarding LFR isn't exaggerated than I don't know what is).

Regarding PvP, my brothers and I have been hardcore PvPing since Classic. After the nightmare that Classic was, BC was actually pretty awesome PvP. WotLK was awesome, and towards the end of the xpac, was getting worse. The PvP never got better from there on out but we stayed into it anyway because killing Horde is the definition of satisfaction. Legion, though, made PvP so much better than it's been since BC. For us being hardcore, we preferred Legion PvP easily over any point in the entire time of WoW except BC. You need to elaborate on why you think it's the worst. Otherwise we don't know what you're talking about. IE: I don't like Coleslaw.

Argus is some of the most boring, bland and uninspiring content ever produced in world of warcraft.

Legendaries in legion are a joke. They drop randomly from raids so we don't have to do anything to earn them, its disgraceful the way they designed that system. What's the point of playing if the best items in the game are randomly given to you?

These two points I don't entirely disagree with. While Argus is definitely boring and pretty bland, it's definitely not the most uninspiring content every produced. In reality, I would consider Argus to be a pretty cool area. Most people hate Argus mostly due to its "no fly run around annoying obstacles" mind-set. If you get over yourself, the design itself isn't that bad.

Legendaries, though, are definitely a joke. I very much agree with that. I would have rather had them left out of the entire expansion than to use them the way they're being used now. It's annoying have so many options, but only like 3 for every class is even viable for any reason. On my DH, there has literally not been a single time I used like 6 of the legendaries. I still can't see a time that I would. In addition, I hate that they're so easy to get. I liked it when they were super hard to get, but the power level of them was through the roof. I even liked MoP's "everybody gets one" system because even though it wasn't hard, it was super time-consuming to get still. I also liked that one because I do think it's stupid when only certain classes get a legendary to use at a given point in time. For example, Rogues being the most OP class intentionally during Dragon Soul was stupid.

All-in-all, Legion has been a much better expansion than most so far. I would put BC above it, but part of me never wants to see it again because people over-romanticize their past and think things were harder than they actually were. I'd maybe put it on par with WotLK. WotLK had an okay start. Naxx was fun but having done it during Classic, it wasn't new so it felt kinda boring. Ulduar was fun. ToGC trying for 1st attempt runs was fun. ICC 25H was fun, but not as fun as the previous 2. I really liked ToGC (I'm an arena-feel kinda guy so the environment in this raid I really enjoyed) and anyone who thinks Ulduar wasn't fun can go fly a kite.

Quick someone salvage this pure form of nostalgia fast (and his tears when classic is released)

I don't know what you're getting at. Blizzard themselves said people are overly-nostalgic and that Classic is easy. I don't think he'll be the one crying when Classic comes out, but rather you will. Nothing in the entire era of Classic was hard. /facepalm

[Gaidax]

The only real aspect of the game for me that was worse in Legion than in any other expansions was the sense of never having something completed:

• Artifact Power -> Endless grind for more power & talents.
• Reputations -> Finally reach exalted, then realize you never max out with paragon levels.
• Loot rewarding activities (WQ's/Raids/Dungeons) -> War-/Titanforging. That snowflake piece of gear always eludes you.
• Raids & (M+) Dungeons -> Never become irrelevant due to the same war-/titanforging.
• Legendaries -> The ones you wanted/needed when they were relevant refused to drop, and the only way to obtain them faster (besides the usual weekly raid clear) is participate in the 'endless' grinds above.

I know nothing on that list is mandatory. But it still plays a trick on my mind which, for me, results in apathy. Why bother at all when you know odds of getting a big upgrade, let alone absolute BiS, are close to winning the lottery?

I'm well aware that some people absolutely loved this, and I understand why they do. But for me, it's pretty much the complete opposite. I miss the sense of being done with something. In the past, alts were my go-to activity when things on my main were done for the day/week. Now I rarely touch them, because in that rare situation that I feel like playing, playing an alt feels like a waste of time because I could've done something 'useful' on my main in stead. Which then completely puts me off playing again.

Remove all that and you sit in Garrison all day long with fuck all to do.

Everything you have mentioned are wonderful additions that finally gave something to do besides fapping all day in Garrison/Stormwind/Ironforge/Goldshire and their Horde equivalents.

Of course not everyone has to love everything, but these things are genuinely good, even if some say cheap ways to keep the wheel spinning. M+ for example is amazing and the whole Legion scaling tech as well (M+ is basically that too).

[ShadiHD]

my god OP...you are indeed an edgy cunt who's absolutely no fun to be around of

[Dracullus]

I find it very funny that whining threads never have a poll. It's no surprise of course, poll would show actual reality, not whining Fantasialand (TM).

What is Fantasialand (TM) you ask? It's wonderful reality, when Game always is shit, everyone hate it and you can always have reason to whine.. I mean tell truth. And, when new expansion hit, Game become even worse! EVERY TIME! But most wonderful thing is... people somehow still play it (and hate it) for 15 years! Oh, and despite it, game is totally dead.

It's indeed wonderful place.

[Yerbury]

@ OP, you are absolutely entitled to an opinion on any and all things ‘Legion’. But when you say that it is ‘delusional’ thinking for someone to set aside the expansion’s perceived faults while instead praising its content, your statements become less an expressed opinion and more a purported assertion of ‘fact’.

Questing was a poor experience for you, which is unfortunate. You are not wrong to feel that way (it is, after all, subjective). My opinion differs. I enjoyed Legion’s multi-layered structure. Beyond the standard quests/chains within each zone, the class and order hall questlines were a welcome addition to the leveling process and provided worthwhile goals and rewards along the way. No doubt my definition of ‘worthwhile’ and yours won’t align.

Gearing for LFR was, in my experience, hardly the ‘absurd’ time sink that you suggest. Prior to the introduction of Emerald Nightmare in patch 7.1, there was a plethora of gearing options available. Once you hit level 110, rare mobs awarded 800 ilevel gear. Your order hall helm was an immediate 810 ilevel upgrade. Unlocking world quests meant access to gear that scaled with ilevel. Associated Emissary quests provided caches with 840-850 ilevel gear. Minimum ilevel requirement for Emerald Nightmare (LFR) was 825. On that basis, the problem is…? If you found this structure to be ‘absurdly’ lengthy, you were doing it wrong.

Re: nethershards/veiled argunite, I won’t opine on whether gear via these currencies is a ‘lazy solution’. What does interest me is why a player who harbors these sentiments wouldn’t ignore these currencies altogether and instead gather gear the old-fashioned way. Heroic/mythic dungeons and raids add a greater degree of RNG but nonetheless provide the same opportunity to upgrade gear that past expansions have. On that basis, why are these ‘lazy solutions’ featuring within your Legion experience?

Finally, LFR is exactly as it was in the previous expansion, and the expansion before that. You have good groups, awful groups, and a lot of groups between those extremes. Bosses are very beatable, but that is because the point of LFR isn’t to provide a challenging end-game experience. If LFR does not deliver a rewarding encounter for you, I’d suggest that you run normal, heroic or mythic raids instead.

Or, based on the fact that ‘you haven’t had a worse time playing wow for a seriously long time’, perhaps now is the right moment to seek out a different game to play.

[Deleted]

I don't know what you're getting at.

that is pretty obvious. he claimed vanilla had no farm/grinds like legion. he is wrong

Blizzard themselves said people are overly-nostalgic and that Classic is easy. I don't think he'll be the one crying when Classic comes out, but rather you will. Nothing in the entire era of Classic was hard.

*tripple-facepalm* That was my point to him.
And I sure as hell wont be crying when vanilla is relaunched I done it twice I dont need to do that again but he will, when he sees the grinds

[Velerios]

About LFR: I personally want LFR to be at least as difficult as in Throne of Thunder. I think that the last 2 wings had a decent difficulty-level. (except the bad visuals on boss 1)

About Legion: Legion was NOT a good expansion, but also NOT a bad one. Legion is by a lightyear better than WoD, far better than cata. I would also rate it above Vanilla, so it is actually an average expansion.

My personal list is:

WotLK
MoP
BC
Legion
Vanilla
Cata
...
WoD

Legion is not the worst expansion since this is the waste of space called WoD.

[Deleted]

The only real aspect of the game for me that was worse in Legion than in any other expansions was the sense of never having something completed:

• Artifact Power -> Endless grind for more power & talents.
• Reputations -> Finally reach exalted, then realize you never max out with paragon levels.
• Loot rewarding activities (WQ's/Raids/Dungeons) -> War-/Titanforging. That snowflake piece of gear always eludes you.
• Raids & (M+) Dungeons -> Never become irrelevant due to the same war-/titanforging.
• Legendaries -> The ones you wanted/needed when they were relevant refused to drop, and the only way to obtain them faster (besides the usual weekly raid clear) is participate in the 'endless' grinds above.

I know nothing on that list is mandatory. But it still plays a trick on my mind which, for me, results in apathy. Why bother at all when you know odds of getting a big upgrade, let alone absolute BiS, are close to winning the lottery?

I'm well aware that some people absolutely loved this, and I understand why they do. But for me, it's pretty much the complete opposite. I miss the sense of being done with something. In the past, alts were my go-to activity when things on my main were done for the day/week. Now I rarely touch them, because in that rare situation that I feel like playing, playing an alt feels like a waste of time because I could've done something 'useful' on my main in stead. Which then completely puts me off playing again.

You hit the nail in the head. That is literally the design problem that lead many to leave the game or be incredibly unhappy with this expansion. The design that leads to the endless grind and repetition. I hate it. I had to quit the game temporarely due to burnout after the first tier. Now, i just don't care to maximise everything. So, i became apathic about it. I still dislike it greatly and think it will kill the game.
At some point, these devs lost trace of what a game is supposed to be (fun and rewarding) and turned it into a cynical unending gambling den, following the current trends of the gaming market. The only difference is that we don't have the pay to win lootboxes in as an alternative yet, but the cynical F2P design is here.

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Remove all that and you sit in Garrison all day long with fuck all to do.

Everything you have mentioned are wonderful additions that finally gave something to do besides fapping all day in Garrison/Stormwind/Ironforge/Goldshire and their Horde equivalents.

Of course not everyone has to love everything, but these things are genuinely good, even if some say cheap ways to keep the wheel spinning. M+ for example is amazing and the whole Legion scaling tech as well (M+ is basically that too).

That is the queue that their outworld content sucks. You wouldn't sit your ass in the garrison cause you at least got the WQ's now. But, i don't consider parking my main character cause hes cleared the current content and work on an alt as a bad thing.
Those systems increase the time investment to stay competitive in the game and while atm it's ok cause the AP grind kind of ended, it was an absolute nightmare during the expansion and totally killed alts.

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Quick someone salvage this pure form of nostalgia fast (and his tears when classic is released)

Vanilla grind was severe but had an end. Legion grind is endless.

So, i don't think you'll be tasting his tears. They ARE different.

[Azgraal]

Conclusion - better then MOP, but still very bad. WOD was better - it was bad only because Blizzard abandoned it.

Someone who considers MoP to have been a bad expansion - and worse, ranks it below WoD - clearly shouldn't be giving their opinion at all...

[Deleted]

Say you wanna know what's the worst expansion ever? Warlords of Draenor.

Atleast with Legion it was Great Expansion unlike the Ugly Excuse of doing nothing like WoD.

This is exactly why i disagree with people on this.

So, answer me this. While you had things to do in WoD and Legion, wich one was the most fun? (if you say Legion, i won't believe you cause the class design was terrible). See, not having content is one thing, but having something to do that isn't fun and you feel forced to is worse to me.

I had more fun playing WoD while it lasted and i don't see how anyone can enjoy the boring endless grind more.

I value what i got from my time in fun more than i do just filling it with something dull to do. Maybe cause i have more things i'd like to do with my time.

[Kudos]

Vanilla grind was severe but had an end. Legion grind is endless. So, i don't think you'll be tasting his tears. They ARE different.

While gear in Vanilla did plateau, any serious raider back then will remember the consumable grind. Forget the Food + flask + 1 pot per fight of today. Back then we were expected to farm:

1. Whipper root tubers.
2. Blasted Lands consumables - like R.O.I.D.S or Lung Juice.
3. Flasks. (Or greater and lesser elixirs)
4. Elixirs (or flasks - as above)
4. Potions. Healing + offensive.
5. Winterfall Fire Water
6. Food
7. Sharpening stones or weapon oils.

I was really glad when they changed this shortly into BC because it sometimes felt I was spending more time farming consumables than actual raiding.

(This list could be wrong. I'm just going off memory and I haven't play on Nost or any kind of Vanilla server.)

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This is exactly why i disagree with people on this.

So, answer me this. While you had things to do in WoD and Legion, wich one was the most fun? (if you say Legion, i won't believe you cause the class design was terrible). See, not having content is one thing, but having something to do that isn't fun and you feel forced to is worse to me.

I had more fun playing WoD while it lasted and i don't see how anyone can enjoy the boring endless grind more.

I value what i got from my time in fun more than i do just filling it with something dull to do. Maybe cause i have more things i'd like to do with my time.

I'm going to say Legion. I quit playing in WoD for a period because I wasn't a fan. I was an avid alt-a-holic and I didn't even get all my alts to level 100 during WoD. Legion on the other hand, all my alts are 110. All my alts have finished the class campaigns and have their mounts and I'm working on getting many of them the Mage Tower appearances.

[Jastall]

Wow is easy as shit though... I've cleared mythic 15+ and heroic raids in under two weeks of trying casually pugging. I'm gonna try to pug mythic next though.

Vanilla pvp takes more skill than legion as well...

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I'd like to see a source or evidence for this other than talking out of your ass... or being obtuse to be obtuse because people love doing that shit on this forum.

Oh, please do try to pug bosses like Mythic Imonar, hell even High Command. I'll watch a stream of that.

[ZazuuPriest]

So most of the players here seems to be praising legion, they can barely point out any problems, and they are praising legion to a point where some of it starts to become a little bit delusional.

I have a somewhat different opinion about legion, so im going to go through the good, the bad and the ugly about this expansion.


The Good The storyline was okay. Blizzard makes some epic cinematics, and legion was no exception.


The Bad Questing was an awful experience. Some of the quests were horribly bugged, would often guide you to a completely wrong location and gave an absolute abysmal amount of experience in the beginning. The questing areas were poorly designed and the terrain was awful to navigate through, so you would often have to make a detour just to get to the right location.

Gearing up was a pain in the ass for fresh characters and you had to go through an absurd amount of time waste just to get good enough gear for LFR. World quests were a joke and would often give you worse gear than you already had.

Blizzard made it possible to buy your gear with nethershards, which is a lazy solution. They later added veiled argunites, which is the same trivial grinding process as nethershards. Same goes for grinding artifact power for your weapons, you just do the same mindless and repetitive grinding to get whatever currency blizzard wants you to get, which sums up the absurd and boring grindfest that was legion.


The Ugly LFR is a joke. I realize that its supposed to be for beginners, but seriously. LFR in legion is so mind-numbingly boring and easy that you could literally go out in the kitchen, make a cup of coffe, come back and then pick up your loot. The bosses in LFR are masochists; they don't fight you back, they are just waiting for you to come kill them and grab their treasures.

PvP is problably the worst of any expansion.

Argus is some of the most boring, bland and uninspiring content ever produced in world of warcraft.

Legendaries in legion are a joke. They drop randomly from raids so we don't have to do anything to earn them, its disgraceful the way they designed that system. What's the point of playing if the best items in the game are randomly given to you?


Summary Well, that's my 2 cents. I haven't had a worse time playing wow for a seriously long time, and on several occasions I honestly felt like blizzard was wasting my time on purpose so my subscription would run out and they would make some more money from me subscribing again.

While some of the players on this forum can barely get their hands down from excitement over legion, I have to say that legion was problably one of the worst expansions ever made in the franchise.

1. The story was alright, no where near the level of BC, WOTLK or MoP
2. Sorry you couldnt just fly to the quest mob kill it and fly back, or run in a straight line kill and get loot might I suggest Final Fantasy 13 if thats what youre in to
3. LFR has always been a joke, Id argue its better now than it was in say.. Dragon Soul but whatever if you dont like it dont do it
4. PvP is meh, sorry you cant outgear people and 1 shot them, doing what they did to pvp gear though was a mistake you might have 1 valid point in your bitch fest
5. Legendaries are meh, i dont think anyone loves the system but i think its the only thing they could think of to give classes flavor after they gutted every spec, something i think that we all hope the rectify in BfA
Summary. Youre wrong, legion is easily middle of the pack as far as xpacs go

[RomanDark]

So most of the players here seems to be praising legion, they can barely point out any problems, and they are praising legion to a point where some of it starts to become a little bit delusional.

I have a somewhat different opinion about legion, so im going to go through the good, the bad and the ugly about this expansion.


The Good The storyline was okay. Blizzard makes some epic cinematics, and legion was no exception.


The Bad Questing was an awful experience. Some of the quests were horribly bugged, would often guide you to a completely wrong location and gave an absolute abysmal amount of experience in the beginning. The questing areas were poorly designed and the terrain was awful to navigate through, so you would often have to make a detour just to get to the right location.

Gearing up was a pain in the ass for fresh characters and you had to go through an absurd amount of time waste just to get good enough gear for LFR. World quests were a joke and would often give you worse gear than you already had.

Blizzard made it possible to buy your gear with nethershards, which is a lazy solution. They later added veiled argunites, which is the same trivial grinding process as nethershards. Same goes for grinding artifact power for your weapons, you just do the same mindless and repetitive grinding to get whatever currency blizzard wants you to get, which sums up the absurd and boring grindfest that was legion.


The Ugly LFR is a joke. I realize that its supposed to be for beginners, but seriously. LFR in legion is so mind-numbingly boring and easy that you could literally go out in the kitchen, make a cup of coffe, come back and then pick up your loot. The bosses in LFR are masochists; they don't fight you back, they are just waiting for you to come kill them and grab their treasures.

PvP is problably the worst of any expansion.

Argus is some of the most boring, bland and uninspiring content ever produced in world of warcraft.

Legendaries in legion are a joke. They drop randomly from raids so we don't have to do anything to earn them, its disgraceful the way they designed that system. What's the point of playing if the best items in the game are randomly given to you?


Summary Well, that's my 2 cents. I haven't had a worse time playing wow for a seriously long time, and on several occasions I honestly felt like blizzard was wasting my time on purpose so my subscription would run out and they would make some more money from me subscribing again.

While some of the players on this forum can barely get their hands down from excitement over legion, I have to say that legion was problably one of the worst expansions ever made in the franchise.

I don't remember a single bugged quest and I did every last one of them on my main. EXP was fine, I did 2 and a half zones before reaching 110 on my first character, which is fine, first time through you should be soaking up the story.

Gearing is literally a majority of the end game content, if it's a waste of time then you are playing the wrong type of game. When Emerald Nightmare launched I was already over geared for it, never touched heroics, jumped straight into mythics because of WQ gear, Order Hall sets, and titanforging. I notice you didn't mention Mythic+ and since you seem to have your sights set on gearing for LFR, I'm gonna guess you don't play high level pve content, again, you might be playing the wrong type of game. The gear you buy with nethershards and argunite is catch up gear (easily letting you gear a fresh 110 which you say is too difficult), it is NOT the end all be all of the gearing ladder, even LFR gives better gear than those methods, not to mention higher difficulties.

Artifact Power you literally get for just playing the game, doing pretty much anything in the expansion. It's not a terribly interesting system after that initial trait unlocking but it's really only a problem for the high end raiders who were required to grind it endlessly each time a new progression path came out for it. For less serious raiders, semi casuals, and casuals, it was not necessary in the first week of a patch. A new 110 today can do one WQ and get their artifact to concordance.

LFR is not representative of challenging raid content and never has been. It's there for an entry level introduction to raiding and for casual players who don't have time to jump into higher difficulties. At the beginning of the expansion LFR was a faceroll experience sure, but with Tomb they decided to change their philosophy with LFR and reduce the number of mechanics, but make the ones that remain matter, such as Armageddon on Kil'Jaeden. This makes fight easier to for less raid minded players to keep track of but still leaves in a mechanic or too that should be dealt with seriously. Still though, higher level players who do LFR for leggos, ap and other such things can carry the intended players for the content, making it seem even easier than it should be. If all the players in LFR were the ones doing under 600k in Antorus then you might have a different perspective on its difficulty. Lastly, if you're the type of player who leaves during a pull then once more, this game doesn't seem to be for you.

MMO PVP is always bad, nothing new here.

Acquiring Legendaries was poorly implemented, however, the items themselves were exciting and had meaningful impact on the way your class played (admittedly sometimes to the extreme causing them to be required for high performance at the top levels). They were also made accessible to all types of players and not just players with a competent raiding guild to help them which in my opinion was a good thing.


Just reading over your post makes me wonder what the heck you even do in this game as you don't seem to do high level content, so you're not looking to challenge yourself, but at the same time you don't seem to like things that benefit casual players. What is it you want? World Quest Keystones?

[WowIsDead64]

Someone who considers MoP to have been a bad expansion - and worse, ranks it below WoD - clearly shouldn't be giving their opinion at all...

I rate xpacks according to amount of time, I was subbed during them. And MOP was record in this case - it was short period of trying to deal with daily grind at the beginning and several attempts to resub during content patches (not successive though - due to beginning of claustrophobic/no flying outdoor design era). It just can't be compared with two years of non-stop playing in WOD. WOD is record in this case too - it was the only xpack, where I consumed 100% of endgame content.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Opinions are like ... everybody's got one.

[Kudos]

Opinions are like ... everybody's got one.

True. It's disheartening though, that this topic has over 460 comments and a lot of people don't read any further than OP, quote them and leave a comment.

[SwislocK]

YoU ArE WrOnG
GeT OvEr iT aNd Qq To YoUr FrIeNdZ MoAr