Hammer of Wrath is back?

[Arcieth]

Exactly. Unless they're absolutely terrible, the execute talents are going to be must-picks almost universally because low boss HP is when Blizzard likes to implement all the "CRAZY MUST GET IT DEAD NAOOOOOOO!" mechanics.

Well, in my opinion, all abilities in WoW should be baseline while the talent feature would be used for passive buffs and change gameplay, like tier bonuses/artifact traits.

[Schattenlied]

And remember: Blade of Justice is physical damage, so it doesn't scale with Mastery.

Not to mention Inquisition.

[Arcieth]

Same fucking here . I can't describe how much I hate having to find room on my bars for a talent when I already have my bars exactly how I like them in accordance to keybinds

Man, I'd actually cry out of joy if they actually gave us all abilities as baseline. Like, why do they bother make those abilities if we are going to use only 1 out of 3 at a time anyway? All classes have been pruned this expansion too so we have even less buttons.

[DrMcNinja]

Thats most likely the standard patchwerk sim.

Topic:
Hammer will be a godsend on movement intense fights.

Correct, it was Heroic Gruul, which was essentially a patchwork. But I can pull out every log from BRF and Highmaul containing a ST fight and Hammer of Wrath would be top behind Mastery.

AoE is, again, a different situation.

[Holypowah]

Keep in mind they also lowered the PPM of Blade of Wrath. Now the whole row can be mediocre!

This is the important part here, but its still a tough choice. Plus we don't know how well mastery is going to scale for us yet so for all we know mastery could be our shit stat like it was for 95% of legion.

[Deleted]

Not to mention Inquisition.

the new inquisition talent increases all damage by 10% and gives 10% haste

[Gungnir]

If it goes baseline then I might play Ret again.
If not then it's just another expansion where I don't touch Ret at all.

[Tyze]

HoW baseline and a judgement talent tree (or in azerite armor) with long arm of the law!

[xxcloud417xx]

Should be on the same row as Greater Judgement, make us choose better >50% damage (which is what we have in Live due to Mastery being God now), or sub 20% execute. That's some more meaningful fight-to-fight-basis decision making.

[Ryuji]

Correct, it was Heroic Gruul, which was essentially a patchwork. But I can pull out every log from BRF and Highmaul containing a ST fight and Hammer of Wrath would be top behind Mastery.

AoE is, again, a different situation.

That was with Sanctified Wrath though, yeah? Not having HoW every other GCD during wings might hurt quite a bit.

[Bane-Thunder-God]

Well, in my opinion, all abilities in WoW should be baseline while the talent feature would be used for passive buffs and change gameplay, like tier bonuses/artifact traits.

Thats how talents used to be in vanilla and they were boring as f*ck. Cause everyone would just use the same build there was no variety whatsoever.

[Arcieth]

Thats how talents used to be in vanilla and they were boring as f*ck. Cause everyone would just use the same build there was no variety whatsoever.

And there is variety now? Don't make me laugh. In every talent row, one talent greatly surpasses the two others, unless the other talent is good for some other situation.

[Charge me Doctor]

Stop trying to downplay Blade of Wrath it procs very often, more often than Divine Purpose which is a final talent...

Hammer of wrath to be useful relies on you having wings up. lool sorry but if we're talking consistent damage, Blade of wrath will outshine Hammer of Wrath.

A passive that works all the fight randomly... ability that works against 20% health targets... consistency... You know, i'll take an ability that reliably gives me something of value every fight (because monsters get to 20% health in fights when it matters, aka, kill fights) than a random proc that is completely random and outside of my control and can proc when i don't need it.

Also it procs often now, but it can easily change on or even before release.

Also Nuffle fucking hates me since just a hour ago i rolled triple skull. Twice in a fucking row. RNG sucks balls

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but you linked them a picture with no link for context of how that fight went and why HoW is actually hitting harder....I mean I know hammer was good but a screencap doesn't help ya.

I would lol if someone managed to post a log from wrath of azhara with HoW dealing 80% of damage. Damn that would be hilarious

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Why is it even a talent? Just a slap in the face

Because warriors

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Exactly. Unless they're absolutely terrible, the execute talents are going to be must-picks almost universally because low boss HP is when Blizzard likes to implement all the "CRAZY MUST GET IT DEAD NAOOOOOOO!" mechanics.

In this case you have freedom of not picking it into fights where it's not needed. And not all encounters actually have an execute phase, like Helya in the maw dungeon, or Odin in the Halls

[Dmitro]

Should be baseline for all 3 specs.
maybe with 10 sec cd but massive damage

[Nefarious Tea]

In this case you have freedom of not picking it into fights where it's not needed. And not all encounters actually have an execute phase, like Helya in the maw dungeon, or Odin in the Halls

Two isolated fights in dungeons no one cares about (with a style that blizzard almost never uses) don't offer a very compelling reason as to why an execute talent isn't the best option.

[Reith]

Two isolated fights in dungeons no one cares about (with a style that blizzard almost never uses) don't offer a very compelling reason as to why an execute talent isn't the best option.

Yeah, you just wouldn't use HoW in Halls basically.. lol. or you'd run out with the speed buff and redo talents before going up the ramp.

[Bane-Thunder-God]

And there is variety now? Don't make me laugh. In every talent row, one talent greatly surpasses the two others, unless the other talent is good for some other situation.

Yes there is. Cause i find i change my talents based on PvE or PvP and sometimes change my PvE talents based on playstyle i want to go for. Between divine purpose an Crusade.

None of this happened in Vanilla. You used the same tree for pvp an pve made no difference. No talent changes whatsoever.

[Arcieth]

Yes there is. Cause i find i change my talents based on PvE or PvP and sometimes change my PvE talents based on playstyle i want to go for. Between divine purpose an Crusade.

None of this happened in Vanilla. You used the same tree for pvp an pve made no difference. No talent changes whatsoever.

Ok, but they can still make varying talents if they do what I suggested? Passive talents that could change gameplay like tier set bonuses and golden artifact traits. Like, do you want AoE? Use this passive talent that makes your incinerate. Do you want ST? Use a ST talent that would buff your ST. Having abilities as talents is bad imo, it locks interesting abilities. What if I want to have an ability like Demonic Circle but the other talent is better?

[Swampmoose]

Yes there is. Cause i find i change my talents based on PvE or PvP and sometimes change my PvE talents based on playstyle i want to go for. Between divine purpose an Crusade.

None of this happened in Vanilla. You used the same tree for pvp an pve made no difference. No talent changes whatsoever.

If you are trying to maximize your DPS in raids for progression, there still isn't any real choice. You simply select which is strongest. If you're just screwing around in LFR or questing, whatever, then you can just pick and choose to fit a certain play style. Really just depends on what you are doing. Having a talent tree that forces you into a specific talent to maximize your DPS is pretty crap. On the other hand, it's very difficult to make an entire talent tree where everything can be swapped freely without a DPS penalty one way or another.

[Reith]

Ok, but they can still make varying talents if they do what I suggested? Passive talents that could change gameplay like tier set bonuses and golden artifact traits. Like, do you want AoE? Use this passive talent that makes your incinerate. Do you want ST? Use a ST talent that would buff your ST. Having abilities as talents is bad imo, it locks interesting abilities. What if I want to have an ability like Demonic Circle but the other talent is better?

Yeah, having to choose between "this is better for AOE" or "this is better for ST" is not really a meaningful choice. If you're going into a boss fight where AOE is a significant portion of the fight, you have to pick the AOE talents, or you're just playing the game wrong. If you pick AOE talents on a fight where there's never anymore than 1 target, you're playing the game wrong.

Talents shouldn't be this choice between single target or AOE. Talents should have a utilitarian usage beyond only boosting your numbers. This is why I think Justicar's Vengeance is a pretty good talent, although they completely ignored the scaling of it for the entire expansion when base finishers were the only ones affected by the artifact traits.. a bit (more than a bit) of an oversight there. Divine Purpose is good because it lets you use more finishers more often, and it works decently well with Justicar's Vengeance because it negates the HP usage with a Divine Purpose proc.

The talents as they are arranged at the moment have little structure or theme. Maybe they could make a single target talent row and an AOE talent row, then have the mobility row, make a couple leftovers there baseline. I'd be surprised if they didn't add another talent row for level 120, unless they plan to have the Azerite necklace take that on.