Shadow BFA Datamining

[Lucrece]

Some people enjoy doing dungeons, especially now with mythic+ being very real with the scaling and removal of set bonuses.
You are basically telling those people to go reroll because "its ok, we are good in raids", well not everybody enjoys raiding.

You can still complete dungeons just fine with Spriest, and just like the game can't be balanced around random battlegrounds or leveling dungeons, neither can endgame PvE be balanced outside raids which are the standard and where maximum performance is where it matters.

[BobAwesome]

I never said it wouldn't happen, what I've been saying is that you shouldn't look at alpha numbers because tuning at this point in time means nothing. You even acknowledge that by linking a bunch of post launch patches.

You're freaking out over % changes when we don't even have level cap, freak out when it's closer to launch rather than this early in the game because they could pull some drastic changes out the ass like remove DoTs entirely (hypothetically speaking)

You've mistaken me laughing over blizz making the same mistakes they've made basically every expansion for freaking out, which though if you want actual changes to a class, you'd need to freak out early and not wait, because by then, it's too late. I'm laughing at blizz for two reasons. 1) They're doing the same thing they've done every cycle and 2) They're doing number changes even before any actual mechanical changes. They're literally doing things ass backwards. And you two are trying to defend it and down play it. Are you new to WoW? Did you just start playing in WoD or Legion? How do you not get how blizz works by now?

[zito]

You've mistaken me laughing over blizz making the same mistakes they've made basically every expansion for freaking out, which though if you want actual changes to a class, you'd need to freak out early and not wait, because by then, it's too late. I'm laughing at blizz for two reasons. 1) They're doing the same thing they've done every cycle and 2) They're doing number changes even before any actual mechanical changes. They're literally doing things ass backwards. And you two are trying to defend it and down play it. Are you new to WoW? Did you just start playing in WoD or Legion? How do you not get how blizz works by now?

Yea you're freaking out over alpha numbers, in a game where level cap doesn't exist yet and we just got a stat squish to bring us back to wrath numbers we don't know what % changes actually mean until that happens.

You should be more concerned about playstyle and talents right now because that's more volatile to change NOW than post launch.

[BobAwesome]

Yea you're freaking out over alpha numbers, in a game where level cap doesn't exist yet and we just got a stat squish to bring us back to wrath numbers we don't know what % changes actually mean until that happens.

You should be more concerned about playstyle and talents right now because that's more volatile to change NOW than post launch.

No, % changes DO matter. It's not like a non % change. It doesn't matter if there's a stat squish, a stat expansion or if stats remain the same, % don't care because it applies in an overall broad sense. Now if the changes were DoT's damage increased by 7.5 then I wouldn't care because what's that 7.5 in relation to? Who knows. 7.5 when it normally does 20? 100? 400? Now a 7.5% increase does matter because it's a 7.5% increase regardless of the damage because it's all being compared to the damage that a Spriest does AND everyone else. The stat squish is a not a factor it's happening to EVERYTHING. It's a common denominator and is factored out.

[Caladia]

You can still complete dungeons just fine with Spriest, and just like the game can't be balanced around random battlegrounds or leveling dungeons, neither can endgame PvE be balanced outside raids which are the standard and where maximum performance is where it matters.

Dungeons do matter going forward, M+ is very much a thing where people like to be competitive and not left in the dust.

[Rhaxus]

snip

since you don't even know how much your spells are going to be contributing to your damage, you really don't know what those percental changes are going to mean.
7.5% on a dot that might just be 5% of your overall damage is not really as relevant as 7.5% on something that does like 40% of your overall damage, which is why everyone here is telling you to stop and wait for what is actually being presented after the squish and their intended changes instead of just assuming they do the same thing every expansion without any context.

[Lucrece]

Dungeons do matter going forward, M+ is very much a thing where people like to be competitive and not left in the dust.

So was challenge mode, but the game was never balanced around them. If you don't want to optimize for them via class stacking, that's your problem. The content can be completed and competition in M+ is not to meddle with balancing for raids. Part of balancing for raids is that certain classes have certain strengths and weaknesses.

[Ophenia]

since you don't even know how much your spells are going to be contributing to your damage, you really don't know what those percental changes are going to mean.
7.5% on a dot that might just be 5% of your overall damage is not really as relevant as 7.5% on something that does like 40% of your overall damage, which is why everyone here is telling you to stop and wait for what is actually being presented after the squish and their intended changes instead of just assuming they do the same thing every expansion without any context.

We can have an idea though, I get why he frightens about that.

Our DoTs are today hitting like a wet noodle without Mass Hysteria, if they aren't buffed by a flat 50%, you can as well remove them from your rotation as they will be wasted GCDs.
Just go to Argus and try killing anything without entering the Voidform. Simply enjoy your DoTs ticking at 200k max.

[Well]

Honestly guys?

I've been maining my priest since MoP. I decided to drop it in Legion. Why?

Because the insistence of the devs not allowing us to be even close to decent in AoE is just not okay. I do not understand why I can destroy massive groups of mobs even in questing with my elemental/enhancement shaman, my windwalker monk, all my warlock specs, all my mage specs, my retri paladin, balance/feral druid specs and do NOTHING with my priest.

Why is their leveling so HORRID? Why MUST I go Holy to do WQs and why, oh god why, is it so much better to go around holy novaing shit, critting mobs for 1.7 MILLION damage with Holy Word: Chastice on demand, while my dps spec can do nothing other than press Mind Flay and do PATHETIC damage?

Why the fuck are warriors so god damn OP every single expansion? Why can they spam Whirlwind at will fully and always disregarding what they want to call their resource in Rage, why can they press one button and do perfectly fine?

Why must I build 40 VF stacks to do the damage everyone else does?

That's why I decided to no longer play on my priest. I do not understand why and I am tired of waiting for the stupid devs to decide that they should allow SPs to be able to AoE like a Warrior. Fuck this.

[Dmitro]

it's easy to get baited by bad datamining but always remember this class design team will do anything in their power to prevent the player from having a baseline spell added.

cause having fun in this game is illegal

[Deleted]

You can still complete dungeons just fine with Spriest, and just like the game can't be balanced around random battlegrounds or leveling dungeons, neither can endgame PvE be balanced outside raids which are the standard and where maximum performance is where it matters.

Of course they could balance shadow to be much more viable in AoE scenarios.
Auto applying dots or a significantly stronger mind sear etc.
Maybe even some kind of spammable aoe instead of just having mind flay all the time.

[Rhaxus]

We can have an idea though, I get why he frightens about that.

Our DoTs are today hitting like a wet noodle without Mass Hysteria, if they aren't buffed by a flat 50%, you can as well remove them from your rotation as they will be wasted GCDs.
Just go to Argus and try killing anything without entering the Voidform. Simply enjoy your DoTs ticking at 200k max.

i realise that, but we have no clue how much they were squished beforehand, might be that they had double the damage contribution from before.
best example i can think of is marksman, people complain about how multishot will be super weak, because it only does 25% ap damage per shot, not knowing that this is actually quite a lot compared to other classes' aoe options. hell, brutal slash from feral, which is arguably quite strong burst aoe with charges and cooldown as well as an energy cost will only do 60% ap.
until we know how much they plan on squishing priests dots, any buff/ nerf is completely guesswork on our part

[Kjolmir]

Some people still assuming that there is a very linear development cycle before expansions. Alpha doesn't mean "Concept and game mechanics only" Alpha also means damage adjustment. So it's ok to freak out about damage adjustments right now, because if it meant nothing they wouldn't keep adjusting it with every alpha patch right?

Another thing is we want good AoE and some quality of life @Lucrece. It's very simple really, we want to play the game at the same level that every other player does. There is nothing here to oppose really. I'm assuming you are either trolling or just opposing things for the sake of it.

You guys remember why mind sear wasn't a good AoE spell right? Because it had to do less damage than mind flay. So why not buff mind flay? Well that has to do less damage than mind spike (yes the old one) so why not buff that?... This goes on like this all the way to SWP. It's clear that they don't want to break this horrible chain so that's why people freak out about dot damage and whatnot. And that's why Bobisadrummer asking you if you have started playing a priest last expansion or not because we saw this for years and frankly I'm a bit bored from having the same dialogue with new shadow priests at every Alpha discussion.

[Caladia]

So was challenge mode, but the game was never balanced around them. If you don't want to optimize for them via class stacking, that's your problem. The content can be completed and competition in M+ is not to meddle with balancing for raids. Part of balancing for raids is that certain classes have certain strengths and weaknesses.

Challenge Modes did not get 2 big Blizzard sponsored events in 1 year. Which is also more than raiding has ever gotten outside of Blizzcon events they use to do. Not that I'm saying they should balance around M+ and not raiding, but it should be considered.

Especially now that raiding will have no tier gear, M+ will be able to really stand on its own. Obviously if you do both you'll have the best chance at gearing up as you'll have more chances at gear. But there's a real possibility now that people can just do high level M+ and not raid at all for gear. I will continue to do both, but I'm just saying that M+ can't be ignored as a part of the game to balance around. If not on pure damage, at least on provided utility, and survivability.

[Lucrece]

Challenge Modes did not get 2 big Blizzard sponsored events in 1 year. Which is also more than raiding has ever gotten outside of Blizzcon events they use to do. Not that I'm saying they should balance around M+ and not raiding, but it should be considered.

Especially now that raiding will have no tier gear, M+ will be able to really stand on its own. Obviously if you do both you'll have the best chance at gearing up as you'll have more chances at gear. But there's a real possibility now that people can just do high level M+ and not raid at all for gear. I will continue to do both, but I'm just saying that M+ can't be ignored as a part of the game to balance around. If not on pure damage, at least on provided utility, and survivability.

Gear is irrelevant if you're not raiding. Virtually, the purpose of the gear is as a ladder to raid difficulties and a material reward for 20-man coordination on tightly tuned encounters.

M+ shouldn't come even close to mythic raid gear, considering it requires far less investment and the balancing for the dungeons themselves are beyond fucked. When you can get just as good gear from an easy 20+ MoS as a much less balanced Kara or Cathedral, it's not a format that merits earning gear on the scale that mythic raiders have to sit in an instance for months for.

In fact, M+ has been a pox on raiding to begin with because now mythic raiders have to farm M+ to optimize for raids. Gear off M+ should never be competitive with that of raids beyond an entry level scenario.

[Noram54]

#BringbackCascade

[Caladia]

Gear is irrelevant if you're not raiding. Virtually, the purpose of the gear is as a ladder to raid difficulties and a material reward for 20-man coordination on tightly tuned encounters.

M+ shouldn't come even close to mythic raid gear, considering it requires far less investment and the balancing for the dungeons themselves are beyond fucked. When you can get just as good gear from an easy 20+ MoS as a much less balanced Kara or Cathedral, it's not a format that merits earning gear on the scale that mythic raiders have to sit in an instance for months for.

In fact, M+ has been a pox on raiding to begin with because now mythic raiders have to farm M+ to optimize for raids. Gear off M+ should never be competitive with that of raids beyond an entry level scenario.

Outside of the rare TF and the weekly chest at a completely random piece of dungeon gear, M+ doesn't come anywhere close to Mythic raiding for ilvl right now. I think at its current state of ilvl comparison with Heroic/Mythic raiding, it's at a decent place. However, it's still content in game that people enjoy doing. The fact that we have gotten 2 big events for it means that Blizzard likes it too. If it's something they're going to promote by doing these events, it needs to have some semblance of balance around it. Otherwise these events will get very boring seeing the same handful of specs instead of the large variety the game offers.

I just don't understand how you can write off this evolving and ever increasing part of the game as not something to be balanced around at least a little. It's not like it threatens your or anyone else's ability to continue to raid. I know I'll continue to raid, but I also have a group of friends that enjoy M+ I'd like to join them progressing higher on keys as we get gear from M+ or raiding, as well as better at the dungeons/affixes, w/o hitting a flat wall due to toolkit that my class/spec brings that others don't have to worry about.

[Lucrece]

Outside of the rare TF and the weekly chest at a completely random piece of dungeon gear, M+ doesn't come anywhere close to Mythic raiding for ilvl right now. I think at its current state of ilvl comparison with Heroic/Mythic raiding, it's at a decent place. However, it's still content in game that people enjoy doing. The fact that we have gotten 2 big events for it means that Blizzard likes it too. If it's something they're going to promote by doing these events, it needs to have some semblance of balance around it. Otherwise these events will get very boring seeing the same handful of specs instead of the large variety the game offers.

I just don't understand how you can write off this evolving and ever increasing part of the game as not something to be balanced around at least a little. It's not like it threatens your or anyone else's ability to continue to raid. I know I'll continue to raid, but I also have a group of friends that enjoy M+ I'd like to join them progressing higher on keys as we get gear from M+ or raiding, as well as better at the dungeons/affixes, w/o hitting a flat wall due to toolkit that my class/spec brings that others don't have to worry about.

Considering M+ has the BIS relics and trinkets for some specs compared to raid drops, I'm skeptical of the claim.

M+ as entertaining side content is fine, but you can't go and give the king of cleave class aoe on top while still being an extremely desirable execute ranged spec for progression.

It's really no different than playing an assassination rogue vs. an outlaw one. You get good cleave or good aoe, but not both. Same principle applies to the druid dps and warlock specs that are not affliction (which is obviously OP and needs to be tuned down).

[InvisibleHand]

M+ is a burden to raiders
If M+ was not apparent to raiders, its only purpose would be to perpetuate itself.
M+ rewards CC heavy AoE powerhouses.

Shadow priests are a ramp up dot spec who dont specialise in anything.
Shadow priests should get a free class change at this rate

[zito]

Another build another major lack of changes. It's worrying, are they really satisfied with the terrible talent choices?