what would make Monks more appealing to you?

[Fcpremix]

their whole class revolving around, "hurr we drink beer."

[Fyersing]

I think Monks are a fun, amazing class and the best of the post-vanilla class additions.

However, it doesn't really play like a martial arts class.

Actual, real martial arts is about more than hitting Tiger Palm and building up chi bubbles and then spending them with a blackout kick. (I'm oversimplifying to make a point here).

Monk for me, would be more fun and interesting if they didn't use leather armor, but rather, used cloth with Agility or Int on it. They should never have been a leather class. Martially trained Monks don't wear leather all over their bodies and they're vegetarians. Wearing leather would go totally against their tenets as a Monk. Having said that, I realize this is a game and real world monks =/= fantasy mmorpg monks. BUT: Blizzard could have at least tried to make them more alike than they are.

For one, Brewmaster should have been Drunken Monkey stance. At least CALL it that. Don't make it breathe fire, either. Ever see any martial arts movie with a Drunken Master breathing fire? Nope. Never. The flavor is all wrong and ridiculous. Throwing kegs? Yea. I can see that. I also think the staggering should be visible. When in 'Brewmaster' spec, the monk should wobble around as if actually drunk. The monk specs all look and act the same when standing idle in combat.

Next "windwalker"? Would it really have been so difficult to call it Tiger style or Crane style or Mantis style? Or have different stances for those? Or at least make the monk have those different DPS specs that focus on using either kicks, punches or combo of the two?

Mistweaver. I really have no complaints. But it ought not be called a Mist. Should just be Chi/Ki itself that you are healing with, and the Fistweaving should have been how the class plays, to be honest. It was SO fun to do. We have Priests as Disc who deal a good chunk of damage and are very capable healers. Why couldn't Mistweaving do the same rather than a cookie cutter 'sitting at the back and spewing spells at people' they changed it to?

I guess my complaints is that MOnk doesn't really 'feel' martial artsy, like fast paced dodging and spinning kicks weaved together with other types of kicks and punches. The combat doesn't really flow together in an agile whirl of dodging and making precision strikes.

As someone who has maintained a Brewmaster Monk at the level of Heroic Raiding (or, for Legion, +15's), I couldn't disagree with your opinion more.

The class in unpopular precisely because of their over-use of tropes (i.e. Drunken Monks); they'd be better served by the following:

• The specializations should become hyper-focused on embodying their corresponding August Celestial.
• Thus, each specialization would need to have the color palette adjusted to be more appropriate (i.e. Brewmasters using Yellow, Windwalkers using White, etc.)
• This might necessitate the creation of a fourth specialization (preferably, a rDPS centered around Chi'ji -- which utilizes the color red in it's thematic).
• Rotationally, anything remotely "trope-y" that can't be merged into the "Celestial Theme" should be pruned. Meaning if you see it and think, "kung fu master" or "drunken monk", it's got to go.
• Also, as stated earlier, it may well be time for the collective to embrace utilizing weaponry.

[A dot Ham]

I just took a look at https://realmpop.com/us.html about class statistics and it seems that on both, US and EU, Monks are the (edit: almost) least played class.

This was pretty surprising to me personally, I've played a Brewmaster for a while and found it to be one of the most fun tanks in the game.

So I would be interested in your opinion:

1. Why do you think Monks are the least played class?
2. What would you do to make them more appealing to the players?

______________________________________________________________________

Personally I think one of the problem(s)(?) could be that they are very limited with the weapons they can use. Melee DDs could get some new sword wielding animations. What do you think?

Lore. I feel like the "Diablo" Monk fits more into the world of Azeroth than the "Pandaren" Monk does.

[Mamut]

I like WW rotation, very well designed but I cant get used to the visuals of this class, from armor sets to combat animations without weapons.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Their tier sets are ugly, their lore/theme is rubbish and their class hall was a crime.

[ChampionChains]

Martial arts/kung fu bullshit is incredibly dull in an RPG. I don't want to jab people with my fist, or high kick them. I want to be a slayer with my sword or caster of spells.

I can't stand martial arts "HI YAH!!!" bullshit. The entire premise of MoP just doesn't seem to fit in a fantasy game like WoW.

Dungeons and Dragons says hello. So does the majority of other fantasy games and MMOs. Ever play Final Fantasy, any other JRPG or Everquest or pretty much any RPG ever of any relevance?


As to OP:
WoW monks are very heavily inspired by the Street Fighter series with a heavy dash of Jackie Chan's Drunken Master films and the Pandaria celestials. I (as someone who is working on my 4th 110 monk) do wish they'd stray a little further from the Panda focus, but the basis of the class is very much pop culture kung fu. Blizzard takes massive amounts of inspiration from pop culture, probably equal parts RPG standards and pop culture and that's part of what makes their classes and world building in general stand out from a lot of other RPGs/MMOs. They could definitely do with some lore distancing them from Pandaria a bit now that MoP has been several xpacs in the past and martial arts have been embraced by so many races outside of Pandaria.

I'd personally like to see MW get their fistweaving back. It was stupid to remove the "melee healer" playstyle then give it to paladins in a half assed manner. Also, Brewmaster needs to be retuned for the leveling process, it's currently a shit show from about lvl 40-80. I also miss old Touch of Death and MoP style Healing Spheres for WW.

I think what killed monk right out of the gate was releasing a class that started at lvl 1 when a new xpac released. All of your friends and guildies are racing from 85-90 and starting heroics and raiding and your ass is collecting cactus apples in Durotar and playing through the last decade of content you've already gotten bored with. That was a prospect many players weren't excited by. Also it's the only class ever added which wasn't deemed a "hero" class and wasn't based on a major lore villain edgelord. I think that had a good bit to do with killing the class. Also, I think it has a lot to do with the class so heavily inspired by pop culture and the vast majority of people not knowing any of the references or inspirations and thus they automatically label it as "pandaren april fools joke" "pandering to chinese players" or "jack black kung fu panda". If you're not familiar with older fighting games, 70s-90s asian kung fu films etc, the vast majority of the monks inspiration is going to soar right over your head and leave you confused as to how any of it relates to the karate classes you took at a strip mall when you were seven.

Though honestly I'm completely fine with it being the least played class, doesn't hurt my feelings.

- - - Updated - - -

I think Monks are a fun, amazing class and the best of the post-vanilla class additions.

However, it doesn't really play like a martial arts class.

Actual, real martial arts is about more than hitting Tiger Palm and building up chi bubbles and then spending them with a blackout kick. (I'm oversimplifying to make a point here).

Monk for me, would be more fun and interesting if they didn't use leather armor, but rather, used cloth with Agility or Int on it. They should never have been a leather class. Martially trained Monks don't wear leather all over their bodies and they're vegetarians. Wearing leather would go totally against their tenets as a Monk. Having said that, I realize this is a game and real world monks =/= fantasy mmorpg monks. BUT: Blizzard could have at least tried to make them more alike than they are.

For one, Brewmaster should have been Drunken Monkey stance. At least CALL it that. Don't make it breathe fire, either. Ever see any martial arts movie with a Drunken Master breathing fire? Nope. Never. The flavor is all wrong and ridiculous. Throwing kegs? Yea. I can see that. I also think the staggering should be visible. When in 'Brewmaster' spec, the monk should wobble around as if actually drunk. The monk specs all look and act the same when standing idle in combat.

Next "windwalker"? Would it really have been so difficult to call it Tiger style or Crane style or Mantis style? Or have different stances for those? Or at least make the monk have those different DPS specs that focus on using either kicks, punches or combo of the two?

Mistweaver. I really have no complaints. But it ought not be called a Mist. Should just be Chi/Ki itself that you are healing with, and the Fistweaving should have been how the class plays, to be honest. It was SO fun to do. We have Priests as Disc who deal a good chunk of damage and are very capable healers. Why couldn't Mistweaving do the same rather than a cookie cutter 'sitting at the back and spewing spells at people' they changed it to?

I guess my complaints is that MOnk doesn't really 'feel' martial artsy, like fast paced dodging and spinning kicks weaved together with other types of kicks and punches. The combat doesn't really flow together in an agile whirl of dodging and making precision strikes.

Skip to 2:05

They do wobble when they're not using the artifact weapon.

Monks had spec locked stances in MoP, they were just later pruned. WW had tiger stance, BrM had ox stance and MW used crane stance. And they all still have their own unique stance animations.

Hopefully they will bring back Fistweaving. It was awesome. Really dumb that they took it away and gave paladins a cheap "melee healer" clone.

[meowfurion]

As someone who has maintained a Brewmaster Monk at the level of Heroic Raiding (or, for Legion, +15's), I couldn't disagree with your opinion more.

The class in unpopular precisely because of their over-use of tropes (i.e. Drunken Monks); they'd be better served by the following:

• The specializations should become hyper-focused on embodying their corresponding August Celestial.
• Thus, each specialization would need to have the color palette adjusted to be more appropriate (i.e. Brewmasters using Yellow, Windwalkers using White, etc.)
• This might necessitate the creation of a fourth specialization (preferably, a rDPS centered around Chi'ji -- which utilizes the color red in it's thematic).
• Rotationally, anything remotely "trope-y" that can't be merged into the "Celestial Theme" should be pruned. Meaning if you see it and think, "kung fu master" or "drunken monk", it's got to go.
• Also, as stated earlier, it may well be time for the collective to embrace utilizing weaponry.

So to paraphrase your point, you want a Monk to not be a monk.

By your logic you also want DK's not to have anything to do with death.

Hell, let's let Shaman not use the elements.

Because "tropey"

[Deleted]

I don't like the themes for the specs. They're supposed to be martial artists, but none of them do any martial arts. There's green-wave spec, drunk spec and wind spec. They're basically shaman totems with legs.

But it's Blizzard's style to overdesign a concept and then underdesign its playstyle, and I prefer the exact opposite.

Give me a spec with a skillbar filled with different punches and kicks and have them combo into eachother in different orders for different effects, and I'll reroll any day of the week.

[ChampionChains]

I don't like the themes for the specs. They're supposed to be martial artists, but none of them do any martial arts. There's green-wave spec, drunk spec and wind spec. They're basically shaman totems with legs.

But it's Blizzard's style to overdesign a concept and then underdesign its playstyle, and I prefer the exact opposite.

Give me a spec with a skillbar filled with different punches and kicks and have them combo into eachother in different orders for different effects, and I'll reroll any day of the week.

So like tiger palm, blackout kick, spinning crane kick, rising sun kick, whirling dragon punch, fists of fury, flying serpent kick, touch of death, spear hand strike, leg sweep, touch of karma, blackout strike, mighty ox kick, blackout combo, hit combo and combo strikes mastery?

Spec names =/= spec playstyle. "Wind"walker uses zero "wind" abilities except for strike of the Windlord which comes from the artifact, not the base spec. Mistweaver heals using "mist" abilities, a couple of which are directly referenced in the ability descriptions as being "chi" energy, mist is just what it's often called by the pandaren. And the "drunk spec" is based on actual chinese folk lore, an actual real world kung fu style and heavily influenced by the Jackie Chan drunken master movies which draw inspiration from the aforementioned folk lore and kung fu style. They're all very much based on actual martial arts and eastern philosophies like "chi".

Nobody ever cries about warriors not being real world enough. Nobody cries about bladestorm, heroic leap and charge being a physical impossibility or real world thieves/assassins not being able to turn invisible and travel instantaneously through shadows. Have you ever seen a real world shaman summon a totem out of thin air or shapeshift into a spirit wolf or shoot lightning bolts? Why monk is held to a real world standard and every other class is entitled to a 100% suspension of disbelieve if beyond me. In a game where druids (who have real world counterparts) turn into giant bears and cats who can turn invisible, people choose to complain about spinning crane kick not being possible in the real world (the same person will then turn a blind eye to bladestorm though).

[Qnubi]

I generally only play the vanilla classes, no DK, DH or Monk. They don't fit and are too specific. (imo)

[Selastan]

Martial arts/kung fu bullshit is incredibly dull in an RPG. I don't want to jab people with my fist, or high kick them. I want to be a slayer with my sword or caster of spells.

I can't stand martial arts "HI YAH!!!" bullshit. The entire premise of MoP just doesn't seem to fit in a fantasy game like WoW.

I think of it less like Bruce Lee style monks, more of Goku style monks. You aren't just punching, you are punching with the force to level an entire building.

[Deleted]

So what I am gathering from this thread is that not a single person has ever watched a Jackie Chan movie before.

- - - Updated - - -

So like tiger palm, blackout kick, spinning crane kick, rising sun kick, whirling dragon punch, fists of fury, flying serpent kick, touch of death, spear hand strike, leg sweep, touch of karma, blackout strike, mighty ox kick, blackout combo, hit combo and combo strikes mastery?

Spec names =/= spec playstyle. "Wind"walker uses zero "wind" abilities except for strike of the Windlord which comes from the artifact, not the base spec. Mistweaver heals using "mist" abilities, a couple of which are directly referenced in the ability descriptions as being "chi" energy, mist is just what it's often called by the pandaren. And the "drunk spec" is based on actual chinese folk lore, an actual real world kung fu style and heavily influenced by the Jackie Chan drunken master movies which draw inspiration from the aforementioned folk lore and kung fu style. They're all very much based on actual martial arts and eastern philosophies like "chi".

Nobody ever cries about warriors not being real world enough. Nobody cries about bladestorm, heroic leap and charge being a physical impossibility or real world thieves/assassins not being able to turn invisible and travel instantaneously through shadows. Have you ever seen a real world shaman summon a totem out of thin air or shapeshift into a spirit wolf or shoot lightning bolts? Why monk is held to a real world standard and every other class is entitled to a 100% suspension of disbelieve if beyond me. In a game where druids (who have real world counterparts) turn into giant bears and cats who can turn invisible, people choose to complain about spinning crane kick not being possible in the real world (the same person will then turn a blind eye to bladestorm though).

Because the real reason is, people are hung up on the Panda thing, which I think is absolutely stupid. Pandas are awesome.

No other class gets nearly as much unwanted hate, yet you can run around as a freaking undead Gnome with a sword three times bigger than itself 0_o

Also how is punching/kicking any more dull than swiping with a sword? Monks in fantasy have much more kinetic/frenetic movements that look absolutely awesome.

[Stacko]

I think Monks are the lowest played class due to them starting at Level 1 instead of 55 or higher like DKs. Also, they kind of got a bad rep due to Pandaren.

I think that they need some more effects on their spells. Mistweaver spell animations are perfect, but Brewmaster and Windwalker could use some work. The animations on the moves are great, but the actual effects on the attacks are pretty lame.

I think more people would enjoy the Monk's gameplay if they gave them a try. All three specs are really fun to play.

[Kelzam]

The aesthetics are great. Baffles me that people say those are part of why they're unpopular. The truth is, for your average player, Windwalker Monks require a ton of shit of timing and things to keep track of compared to most classes. For that reason, for the average player, it's frustrating. They're pretty poor DPS unless you're very good at playing them. Then, Brewmaster Monks are often thought of as being the weakest tanks by the online community and it's inescapable when the hivemind looks at logs and sees what tanks the world's best guilds aren't running and determine they must be bad. Monks again take more work to play effectively than most other tank classes. I don't have experience as a Mistwalker Monk, so I can't say anything about that. But being one of the highest skill-cap classes and the rewards for not playing it to a T making it very underwhelming, it's understandable why there are fewer Monks than anything else.

[Amstrup]

haha salty monk players showing up now.

I can understand them tho, sudden realizaion that no1 other than themself find the class cool.

Monk is ugly and feels out of place in this game, only panderen can pull it of, and still feels out of place when not in pandaria.

Also, ugly AF animations.

[HyperJay]

I just took a look at https://realmpop.com/us.html about class statistics and it seems that on both, US and EU, Monks are the (edit: almost) least played class.

This was pretty surprising to me personally, I've played a Brewmaster for a while and found it to be one of the most fun tanks in the game.

So I would be interested in your opinion:

1. Why do you think Monks are the least played class?
2. What would you do to make them more appealing to the players?

______________________________________________________________________

Personally I think one of the problem(s)(?) could be that they are very limited with the weapons they can use. Melee DDs could get some new sword wielding animations. What do you think?

They are already one of the most enjoyable Melee DPS but because of the release being "recent", not edgy, starting at 1 instead of 55 DK or 98 DH, and some people main 1 not monk. These things just reduce it

[Deleted]

Well monk is more of an acquired taste, not everyone will and needs to like it.

[Deleted]

haha salty monk players showing up now.

I can understand them tho, sudden realizaion that no1 other than themself find the class cool.

Monk is ugly and feels out of place in this game, only panderen can pull it of, and still feels out of place when not in pandaria.

Also, ugly AF animations.

No, more like your arguments hold no merit and are no more valid than a screaming child in a supermarket.

1. Ugly in what way?
2. Out of place in what way? Are Dk's out of place when in anywhere that isn't Northrend? What about a DH running around in Pandaria?

All I hear are subjective qualms of edgelords, nothing more.

'bu..bu...but furry's and kiddy things' -_-
No more childish than a fury warrior holding two weapons in each hand that are more than double the users size. This game is part of the genre of fantasy if you didn't know.

[Amstrup]

No, more like your arguments hold no merit and are no more valid than a screaming child in a supermarket.

1. Ugly in what way?
2. Out of place in what way? Are Dk's out of place when in anywhere that isn't Northrend? What about a DH running around in Pandaria?

All I hear are subjective qualms of edgelords, nothing more.

'bu..bu...but furry's and kiddy things' -_-
No more childish than a fury warrior holding two weapons in each hand that are more than double the users size. This game is part of the genre of fantasy if you didn't know.

it's a matter of opinion, and as you can see most people share my opinion, monks feels out of place in wow, and is ugly on any other race than pandas.
This was also discussed on reddit, and same pattern, ppl find monk ugly AF and to kung fu manga style goku weird.

Dk's never felt misplaced in this univers( opinion that most agree with)

wow is the kind of fantasy game with a dragon in a lair, a knight and a spellcaster, and this kind of goku manga monk is misplaced in these fantasy settings.

[Deleted]

it's a matter of opinion of, and as you can see most people share my opinion, monks feels out of place in wow, and is ugly on any other race than pandas.
This was also discussed on reddit, and same pattern, ppl find monk ugly AF and to kung fu manga style goku weird.

Dk's never felt misplaced in this univers( opinion that most agree with)

wow is the kind of fantasy game with a dragon in a lair, a knight and a spellcaster, and kung foo monks is misplaced in these fantasy settings.

No, some people share your opinion, definitely not most (how would you even know it's most, do you have a statistic somewhere?)
I know I'm personally too busy having fun on my Void Elf Monk.

And by your logic, nothing after classic wow fits wow. Spaceships and aliens fit wow more than a martial artist class?

What does and does not fit wow is up to Blizzard to decide, not some random forum poster.