Do you want titanforging removed?

[Tradu]

No, as I enjoy playing the game, titanforge can not be removed.

Without it, Mythic+ does not function so not really an option at this point.

I'd rather see LFR removed so there is less reason to care about Titanforging.

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Can't do that, would be way to OP. Only reason the system works now is because it is possible not to upgrade every one of your items.

Imagine also the scenario where you get one item to max then get another item drops that has better stat allocation. You'd now have to farm out whatever currency it is essentially around the clock unless you planned on never getting any upgrades.

It SOUNDS good, but it doesn't really work.

Instead, you need to realize that Titanforging is purely a bonus. You can only get lucky. If you think otherwise, you are not examining how gear has worked historically through out the game.

Historically, there was no titanforging, and gear progression worked much better before.

[Zerenty]

I think it's a good idea overall, but it seems to have run amok. So don't remove it but maybe tone it down.
Warforging = +5 ilvl
Titanforging = +10,15,20 ilvl
Something like that.

[Echocho]

What I would like to see:
* Cap titanforging at mythic base iLvls, it can't go higher than that
* The ability to use valor points (on a weekly cap) to titanforge the pieces yourself so you can still work towards getting the gear you want and not just whatever the RNG gods graced you with.
* Never allow gear to titanforge above what its original maximum was. Emerald nightmare gear able to titanforge up to 985 or whatever the cap is shouldn't be a thing.
* Cap titanforging at +20

[Raelbo]

Yes, there was actual gear progression. The effect of random-enchant-random-TF gear progression is exactly the opposite - there is no real gear progression, no goals to aim for, nothing to plan for, it's repeating every possible dungeon/raid as often as possible and hope for lottery win. That's not progression.

How is there not gear progression? Of course there is. You do content, your gear improves. That IS gear progression.

The difference is that gear progression has become open ended (ie there is no realistically achievable ceiling), and it has been expanded to include all recent content, albeit doing less difficult content will result in much slower progression. In practice it means that whatever you do in the game, you're going to be progressing your gear

The problem comes in when you have a player who lacks the ability to self regulate, when a player decides "I can't stop feeling compelled to keep doing content as long as there is a chance (no matter how small) of an upgrade". TF is great because it gives players the freedom to choose for themselves what goals to chase and when to stop. It fails when players can't exercise that freedom. It's great when players do content for the sake of doing content and still get to experience the ocassional upgrade. It fails when players do content they have no other interest in to get gear they don't actually need, purely out of a compulsion to try and pursue every possible upgrade, no matter how minor or unnecessary.

If TF is a bad system it's only because of players.

IMO TF needs to stay. Removing it might help to protect stupid players from themselves, but it would come at the cost of punishing sensible players. And what would that even accomplish? Stupid players are just going to find some other way to shoot themselves in the proverbial foot. Personally I say that sets a bad precedent. Reward people who play the game as it is meant to be played. If playing the game in a silly way is punishing, then those people need to figure out how to play it in a more sensible fashion, don't just go change the game to protect them from themselves.

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What I would like to see:
* Cap titanforging at mythic base iLvls, it can't go higher than that
* The ability to use valor points (on a weekly cap) to titanforge the pieces yourself so you can still work towards getting the gear you want and not just whatever the RNG gods graced you with.
* Never allow gear to titanforge above what its original maximum was. Emerald nightmare gear able to titanforge up to 985 or whatever the cap is shouldn't be a thing.
* Cap titanforging at +20

Why and to what end? ie what outcome do you wish to achieve by doing this?

[Ophenia]

Remove it and put back reforging.

The current strategy of "its ilvl is higher ? I equip !" sucks.

Warforging was enough. We also have the socket/tertiary stat for the random upgrade, that's enough.

[Aeula]

Nope. It only seems to be a bad thing for hardcore raiders. For me it helps me get into pugs so I'd rather we keep it.

[kibil]

Yes yes and yes, BUT, Blizzard already said they'll not get rid of it, only change it. Believe Ion said that.

[Tradu]

Nope. It only seems to be a bad thing for hardcore raiders. For me it helps me get into pugs so I'd rather we keep it.

It also keeps you out of pugs by inflating ilevel requirements.

[Dyra]

Trinkets and tier as 2pc plus 2/4pc is good for several specs. Also, this problem existed expansion wide, so pointing to only ToS and Ant doesn't work. When we were in ToS people were still farming the previous raids, etc.

Tier sets are gone in BFA remember.

And since Azerite armour cannot WF/TF, even if you get your BiS 'traits' on an early raid item, guaranteed ilvl + whatever lesser traits are on the item from later raids + extra levels on the necklace will outweigh them.

Weapons will be in the same boat except WF only so max of +10(?) ilvl. So the next raid of the same level will already drop weapons at least 5ilvl higher.

So trinkets are the only relevant example going forward to BFA. An they've already said they're not planning any further Convergance or Arcanocrystal shenanigans again.

[alexchaos]

From a super casual's(Only WQ/LFR) point of view I can understand it's a nice feature but they over exaggerated the ilvl bonus in legion.

MoP/WoD had it perfect in my opinion, chance for an upgrade and when you don't get one you can upgrade it by using a currency (valor).
That means even with extreme bad luck, players can upgrade their items to titanforge level.

[Tradu]

Tier sets are gone in BFA remember.

And since Azerite armour cannot WF/TF, even if you get your BiS 'traits' on an early raid item, guaranteed ilvl + whatever lesser traits are on the item from later raids + extra levels on the necklace will outweigh them.

Weapons will be in the same boat except WF only so max of +10(?) ilvl. So the next raid of the same level will already drop weapons at least 5ilvl higher.

So trinkets are the only relevant example going forward to BFA. An they've already said they're not planning any further Convergance or Arcanocrystal shenanigans again.

Tier sets are gone because of titanforging. And trinkets are a big deal. They have to either make garbage trinkets like Legion pre-NH(and even now most trinkets are pretty bad), which is super boring, or make good ones and struggle with tuning because titanforging exists.

[Deleted]

No. TF is the only thing that keeps stale content interesting and people vastly overestimate its impact.

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+1

[Segus1992]

I don't want it to be removed but capped.

Warforged should be +5 ilvl
Titanforged should be +10 ilvl

Make it so that WF is 5-10 and TF is 10-20 and I'm on board. The only issue I have with current TF is that it can go too far. Low chance for something slightly better than the next difficulty up is fine, low chance for something better than two difficulties up is ridiculously stupid.

[Otimus]

From a super casual's(Only WQ/LFR) point of view I can understand it's a nice feature but they over exaggerated the ilvl bonus in legion.

MoP/WoD had it perfect in my opinion, chance for an upgrade and when you don't get one you can upgrade it by using a currency (valor).
That means even with extreme bad luck, players can upgrade their items to titanforge level.

Hell, as a LFR only player, it way hurts more than it helps. You pretty much are guaranteed, unless you literally don't do anything in the game at all, to have gear as good as, if not WAY better than what will drop in LFR, before LFR even unlocks. Which murders all the enthusiasm for it.

I like the idea of war/titanforging. It's just done all wonky. (Some of the catch up mechanisms they've added aren't much help either with the problem I just stated).

I'd be okay if gear only dropped that was only able to "forge" up to one tier in ilvl above what the highest possible item level is from the content you've completed (and the drops themselves' base ilvls being at least a little lower by default than the tier of difficulty you're actually doing). So you don't find yourself, as a low difficulty player, pretty much negating your content before it's even out.

TBH, if that doesn't change, and it's kept like it is, which is how it was in this and in WoD, I'm just going to only sub when the game launches, and only for very, very major patches. I still enjoy the content, I just have zero motivation to repeat content for like... such a teeny slim chance of something to grow my character. Maybe would even go so far as to say I'd maybe only sub at the start and at the end of expansions.

I still think everything was perfect in MoP until SoO. I want the pre-SoO method of gearing back

[Tradu]

I still think everything was perfect in MoP until SoO. I want the pre-SoO method of gearing back

Pretty much, Cata/early MoP had gearing pretty much perfect. And the overgearing before you even do the content thing is pretty silly in Legion, yeah.

[Teri]

Remove at least 1 raid difficulty first, that stretches itemlevels way too much.

[Prime92]

No. TF is the only thing that keeps stale content interesting and people vastly overestimate its impact.

Yes, I want it removed. TF does nothing that keeps stale content interesting and its only impact in that matter is that it makes raiding people go back to low tier raids with hopes of getting overpowered items against all odds with few getting those overpowered items that should've been already gone. Some turds vastly underestimate its impact though.

[grexly75]

Leave it in, as it hurts no one and not sure why so many want it removed.. I just find rather rather petty, spiteful and pathetic that so many want to deny others a chance at good loot..

[Tradu]

Leave it in, as it hurts no one and not sure why so many want it removed.. I just find rather rather petty and pathetic that so many want to deny others a chance at good loot..

Those others always had their chance at good loot. Just do content that warrants it. That aside, it's not just about people being overrewarded for easy content. It's mostly a problem with tuning, where old tier sets/trinkets(and difficulties that are below your level) become worth farming for titanforges(or they have to make them so bad either initially or through later nerfs that they're not worth getting, which is just dumb) and content gets overgeared before you reach it.

[alexchaos]

Hell, as a LFR only player, it way hurts more than it helps. You pretty much are guaranteed, unless you literally don't do anything in the game at all, to have gear as good as, if not WAY better than what will drop in LFR, before LFR even unlocks. Which murders all the enthusiasm for it.

I like the idea of war/titanforging. It's just done all wonky. (Some of the catch up mechanisms they've added aren't much help either with the problem I just stated).

I'd be okay if gear only dropped that was only able to "forge" up to one tier in ilvl above what the highest possible item level is from the content you've completed (and the drops themselves' base ilvls being at least a little lower by default than the tier of difficulty you're actually doing). So you don't find yourself, as a low difficulty player, pretty much negating your content before it's even out.

TBH, if that doesn't change, and it's kept like it is, which is how it was in this and in WoD, I'm just going to only sub when the game launches, and only for very, very major patches. I still enjoy the content, I just have zero motivation to repeat content for like... such a teeny slim chance of something to grow my character. Maybe would even go so far as to say I'd maybe only sub at the start and at the end of expansions.

I still think everything was perfect in MoP until SoO. I want the pre-SoO method of gearing back

I feel you, I don't get the sense of progression when new raid comes as my Ilvl is already above it. I clear it 2 or 3 times then stop playing. That's how it's been the whole xpac for me. I mean, I play 2-3 weeks every patch and I'm already geared for the next raid tier that comes out in 3 months. How is that normal?