Things in Legion you don't want repeated in BfA?

[tyrlaan]

And you completely missed the simple fact that everything from that list was from Vanilla, with design philosophy and lack of progress from over a DECADE ago. That means Pathfinder is OBJECTIVELY bad compared to today's advancements. Stop and really think about this for two seconds instead of trying to pull a "Gotcha!" on me. A game mechanic and design that is as bad as the stuff from THIRTEEN YEARS ago.

Sorry, that's just you moving goalposts. It doesn't mean what you think it means.

Because popularity of a subject determines its worth? Friends. Cliff. Jumping. I shouldn't even need to point this out.

Um, what? How are you missing the point I made here. If Pathfinder is "objectively" the worst system in the game, how exactly is it that you are the first person in this thread to spazz about it? Shouldn't it be forefront on everyone's list, or is everyone in this post an idiot in your eyes?

The fact that you think this is about flight just shows that you're not really thinking. You're just trying to be act superior without fully understanding the issue. I said PATHFINDER was bad. Literally anything besides flight could be locked behind it and it would still be just as bad. This is the point I keep making, which you appear to keep missing. Does ANYTHING else work the way pathfinder does? No.

Ah, see, now you're trying to be pedantic to prove your point. I mention flight as a shorthand, we both know what we're talking about.

I'm not trying to act superior, I'm trying to get through to you that what you hate and what I like are both SUBJECTIVE and NOT objective. Clearly it's not working.

Also, is the fact that Pathfinder works differently than other things in the game supposed to be evidence that it's objectively bad?? That's like saying sushi is terrible because it works differently than other meats since you don't cook it.

Except that I've shown that it's not. Pathfinder is literally as bad as or worse than systems from the dark ages of WoW. How is that not objectively terrible? That you think it's fine doesn't mean that it stops being bad.

No, no you haven't. You just keep restating the exact same thing, which is that you don't like it. The conversation has gone literally like this:

You:" Microsoft is the worst company in the world."
Me: "I'm cool with them"
You: "Oh yeah tell me who else is as crappy as Microsoft"
Me: "Um.... what?"

You leave no room for a universe in where you're opinion is wrong. There is no response you will get that will change your mind. If you recognized that this is because it's your OPINION, that would be pretty much fine since, as I've stated before, it's a game. Fun is subjective.

Or to play off your own words, that you think it's bad doesn't mean that it stops being fine. Both this statement and your original one are both legitimate in the context of Pathfinder, when acknowledged as opinion.

Opinion is not fact.

[Baroclinic]

Well, so far, after reading all these replies, the OVERWHELMING majority of people say they don't want:

Titanforging.

With RNG a very close second (that also ties into Titanforging).

In retrospect, I have to say I agree that I think it's a detrimental system.

So, basically, what I think people are MOST disillusioned by, is the itemization and too much RNG across the board.

It seems as if Blizzard has made RNG more of a crutch to add replayability rather than things that are fun to be replayed.

Personally, i don't mind Titanforging, but I think people should have some control over it. Give them an item that lets them transform one of their BiS non-titanforge items INTO a titanforge version of it.

Do people really enjoy Mythic+ runs? I pretty much don't. I really don't like running 'harder' (read: more annoying) versions of the same damn dungeons I've run over and over and over to gear up to NOT have to run them anymore.

I love titanforging. It gives just a chance to get something useful outside the current content, which can be fun. New tier gets boring sometimes. I do wish there was more control, nothing sadder then getting a titanforge on a crap piece of gear.

I hate M+. It wouldn't be so bad if the loot system wasn't crap, but should one person rage quit/disconnect, no loot. Hell, at 15+ some of the crap is harder then the raids... with less chance of loot for the time spent. I would not cry if they were to vanish.

Also the no flying crap until everything is almost done with... I enjoyed most if not all the "world" by the first 4 months. Riding everywhere to get knocked off resulting in me spending my time killing a mass of mobs I could care less about gets old.

[meowfurion]

I love titanforging. It gives just a chance to get something useful outside the current content, which can be fun. New tier gets boring sometimes. I do wish there was more control, nothing sadder then getting a titanforge on a crap piece of gear.

I hate M+. It wouldn't be so bad if the loot system wasn't crap, but should one person rage quit/disconnect, no loot. Hell, at 15+ some of the crap is harder then the raids... with less chance of loot for the time spent. I would not cry if they were to vanish.

Also the no flying crap until everything is almost done with... I enjoyed most if not all the "world" by the first 4 months. Riding everywhere to get knocked off resulting in me spending my time killing a mass of mobs I could care less about gets old.

I agree 100% about flying.

They're trying to slooooooowly take it away, expansion by expansion, I think.

They've said, if I recall, that they regret ever adding it in. Well, yea. Too bad. You dug this grave Blizzard, now lay in it.

I ENJOY flying. I enjoy the flying mounts. I think flying should be unlocked if you explored 100% of any given zone. Don't lock that shit behind rep or quests. They only unlock it now after you don't really need it anymore. I mean it's cool to fly doing WQ's, but by the time you can fly for them you don't need the gear from them anymore.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The usual. The people that white knight this game to death. Will make YouTube videos, posts, and tell massive tails about how its the greatest and then when it changes make the "yeah it was no good" story. Then also the people that just mindlessly and endlessly bitch about the game. Much like those white knights they got nothing but picking a side and running with it to the end. Useless.. both of them..

Just play the game or don't. Pretty simple. You don't have to sell it to anyone or try to stop others from playing it as well.

[HuxNeva]

The mission table & the phone app. This is WoW, not some Facebook game.
(And by extension all the 'mini-games' that infested WoD. Hope the WoD 'B' team is not up for batting again after the Legion 'A' team hit a home run, as I most certainly get that 'B' vibe with BfA)

- - - Updated - - -

Just play the game or don't. Pretty simple. You don't have to sell it to anyone or try to stop others from playing it as well.

Comming from someone with >7.000 comments on MMO-C XD

[FrostyButt]

The mission table & the phone app. This is WoW, not some Facebook game.
(And by extension all the 'mini-games' that infested WoD. Hope the WoD 'B' team is not up for batting again after the Legion 'A' team hit a home run, as I most certainly get that 'B' vibe with BfA)

I really hope the stupid ass mission table is no longer in the game for BFA.

[msdos]

Things I don't want repeated in BfA:

Keeping tank damage mysteriously low at the beginning of the xpac, then slowly tapering it up, allowing the tanks to have fun and then having some tanks able to do massive damage while others get left in the dust, then releasing an artifact appearance scenario that relies 80% on your damage output, oh and don't forget Mythic keystones.
This move really irked me in Legion and was completely random.

I want Titanforging to come back. I don't obsess over every piece of gear like it's life or death, so when I see something Titanforge it feels good, like winning a raffle. If something doesn't TF, I just move on, not paying mind to it. I'm playing the game for months and months, something good is going to come my way, it always does no matter what. The complaining is just complaining for the sake of complaining.

[VladimirM]

Dungeon finder (i know it's not Legion exclusive option, still I hate it)

[Zuben]

- World Quests rewards shouldn't compete with LFR gear. Perhaps it would be best if they even offered an entirely different reward pool.
- No more follower missions. Legion managed to dial them back from WoD, but I'd still rather not have them at all. They're not engaging gameplay. Besides, being a commander got old as soon as early WoD. I'd rather be just a champion again.
- Forming up a stronghold is fine, but I didn't find the building shuffle in Broken Shore particularly enjoyable.

[Sabinn]

Every expansion has had a daily grind for something, so that doesn't really feel like something introduced in Legion to me.

You basically listed titanforging twice.

I loved me some Suramar, not sure why it gets so much hate.

Antoran Wastes... don't love it, but hate it so much I never want to see another map like it? Can't say that.

Whole expansion without flying is incorrect or deliberate hyperbole, since people are and have been clearly flying around the Broken Isles.



As long as you get playable Vulpera you'll be good, though, right?

I Stopped playing some time later after argus launch, didnt know people could fly in argus already. Thats a good thing though, imagine if blizzard would give us flying only to release a new zone where you have to do everything and never add fly to it. That would be super troll glad to hear we can fly in argus now.

[tyrlaan]

I Stopped playing some time later after argus launch, didnt know people could fly in argus already. Thats a good thing though, imagine if blizzard would give us flying only to release a new zone where you have to do everything and never add fly to it. That would be super troll glad to hear we can fly in argus now.

That's actually not what I said. Specifically on Argus you cannot fly. Sorry you feel like that's being trolled by Blizz.

[Teri]

Legendaries
Relics
Remove at least 1 raid difficulty
Make only 1 itemlevel for random battleground gear, not combatant gear being lower then gladiator (unranked).
Remove random socket/avoidance/speed stat procs.

[Farseer]

I feel like they could do another stat squish with how dps and stats have increased exponentially in Legion. And I wouldn't miss the artifact weapons or everyone having legendaries.

[Duridi]

Proffessions gated behind a large amount of quests, and particulary dungeon quests.

[barrsftw]

Khadgar. I'm tired of him.

[Dembai]

Reputation grinds: The rep doesn't go away. Your rewards for grinding that rep still exist and don't arbitrarily turn off because you switch zones.

Attunements: Several heroics and raids used to have keys. None of which required you to complete virtually the entire expansion worth of content to get. Pathfinder is objectively worse than any attunement.

Resist fights: Are you joking? A single encounter which you could obtain gear for in a matter of days vs an entire expansion worth of work with multiple rep requirements.

Vanilla PVP HWL grind: This is debatable. But since it was a PVP achievement that never got turned off, I don't think it's a fair comparison. You were competing against other players, not the game itself. I'd still call Pathfinder worse, considering that it rears its ugly head in two expansions, vs HWL grind being only a single season.


World bosses: Again, are you joking? A single encounter vs an entire expansion worth of work. No comparison.

Gates of AQ: Similar to the HWL grind, but I'll grant that this objective was a little ridiculous. However, I'd also point out that it was the entire server working together, and not an individual. And once completed was done. Many people gained the advantage of the gates being opened without every contributing anything. Whereas pathfinder still exists and must be done in order to fly, even though the expansion it is in is no longer current or relevant.

And anyway, the simple fact that you had to go to the dark age of Vanilla in order to find a system as bad or worse than Pathfinder proves my point more strongly than any words I might use.
- - - Updated - - -



So basically all you're saying is:

You never played during vanilla. CLEARLY. Or you have the WORST memory.

RESIST FIGHTS: You needed gear that came out of anywhere from 7-10 different dungeons with low drop rates. At first. Not only were these hard to get because they were annoying dungeons to do (and didn't benefit classes equally - as leather resist gear didn't come from the same place Plate resist gear came from), there was NO EASY WAY TO RESET. You had to wait for soft resets between trying again, or attempt to bug the game until it reset for you. A soft reset required you to LOG OUT OF THE GAME FOR OVER 30 MINUTES. But what you also needed was your WHOLE GUILD to help grind up a leatherworker/blacksmith/tailor from unfriendly to exalted with rep turn ins with a faction that wanted you to grind some of the hardest world elites in game...WITH COMPETITION FROM EVERY OTHER GUILD ON SERVER. And heaven help you if you were on a PVP realm, because you'd just DIE. Oh and the mats for this SUCKED too. And yeah, if the guild leather worker didn't like you, EVEN IF YOU HELPED WITH THE REP GRIND - it's not like they'd make that gear for you.

Likewise, just because you had the gear didn't mean you were going to survive. Resist was chance based until you hit a given cap. You could resist nothing, 25%, 50%, 75% or 100%, and you NEVER KNEW which it would be. A fight you lived through a dozen times would wipe the raid because of bad resists. It was hell.

HWL: Vanilla lasted 2.5 years. That's longer than both of these expansions. Not to mention that honor reset WEEKLY. WEEKLY you had to be the best on the server on your faction, and not only that, you also had to OUTPACE the other people trying for HWL. Your rank would change each week based on not just YOUR performance, but also the performance of everyone else. If people competed (which, let's face it, they totally did, even though it would have been easier to take turns), people would literally have to be awake for 48+ hour stretches doing nothing but playing AV or WSG grinding kills. Not finishing games. You got the most honor for kills. Not wins. People got sick. People DISAPPEARED from the server both before and after hitting those ranks. It was so hard that I wouldn't be surprised if people actually died from the strain of trying to stay awake that long. (not to mention, people would also share accounts just to get this done and would get banned for it too). So no, you didn't get to "keep your rank". You didn't even get to keep your title OR your ability to access the gear that came with it.



It was so criminally abusive to players and encouraged SO MUCH SELF-DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOUR that it was cancelled. A pitiful little rep grind is a freaking CAKEWALK, thanks.

Gates of AQ: No, you're dead wrong about this one. The server didn't work together other than the first grind of mats. After that each guild was in a race to get everything together for JUST their guild. The mats, rep, time, and ENDLESS ATTEMPTS at world objectives (that could be interupted if someone caught on that it was happening). And benefitting after the gong got banged? Dude, the point was the grinding and raiding to get them open. AND the fact that only one person would get the mount unless your guild was SUPER generous and well ahead of the curve that they could take the time to make more scepters.

World Bosses: For 2.5 years, ONE PLAYER outside of your raid could wipe your group, allowing THEIR raid to come in and steal the boss from you, nerfing your progression for weeks or months at a time. Pathfinder didn't rely on the kindness of other people not screwing you out of loot on a raid scale FOR YEARS.

Attunements: Please go look up the requirements for KARAZHAN. you had to run half the dungeons in the expansion, one of which was a gauntlet, all of which took over an hour or more to do - as heroics back then were actually HARD. Then go look up the requirements for SCC. And then the Eye. And then realize that guilds were still sequestered back then (no one grouped outside their own guild or you might get kicked), so you had to deal with waiting on other people to get these things done, and some of the encounters in these heroics/normals were more than capable of wiping even an experienced group. And you had to do it once for EVERY. SINGLE. CHARACTER. Unlike Pathfinder, which works for all your alts.

Rep Grinds: Did you even play before Cata? You do realize that rep grinds back in the day would require you to go out and compete against twenty other players for a rare drop off certain spawns in only one area of the world, and it would only grant you 100 rep per drop? Or you could go into a dungeon and hope that you'd get MORE of these drops, but the pulls were SO HARD and CC SO UNRELIABLE that it would be rare to get to the end boss before people gave up? Dead strat, trying to get scourge stones - using an item that took of a trinket slot, just saying. SUPER FUN. Let me tell you.

And let's not even talk about the rep grinds for the AQ-related ones. I mentioned them above, but the drop rate was ALSO abysmal and the rep gained was TINY.

SO LET'S COMPARE:

Legion Pathfinder is a PVE-gated quest chain that basically asks you to play through the content once. You dont' have to do well. You don't have to grind anything. You don't have to rely on other players to help or to avoid hindering you. You just need to do the quests once. On one toon. You also need to explore the land...which you do by doing the quests. You need to do 100 dailies, which you can pump out in a week. Doing the quests and the dailies will net you revered without even trying. That's a NON-ISSUE. Part two which gets you flying, you have to get revered with one faction that gives you quests and dailies like crazy. Yeah.

You're right. That's MUCH harder. It's almost as though playing for a few hours every day gets you something, where in Vanilla and TBC, you wouldn't have had the time to get through a single dungeon, or grind barely any rep.

I personally recommend you don't play classic when it comes out, because given your inability to deal with the most basic PVE aspects of this game leads me to believe that you really would lose your mind trying to play a game that doesn't even spoonfeed you what you need to do in order to get places.

[Dmitro]

class designs

i dont care pretty much about anythig else, but if the classes are as trash as they are now - its gg wp for BFA

[Aleksej89]

Awful ability pruning.

Return all the situationa/niche/utility/flavor abilities that all classes had in MoPandaria.

Players who do not like such spells will not bother to put them on the action bars.

Players who do like such spells will be happy to put them on the action bars.

Win - win.