Is Mathias Shaw hiding the dust under the carpet?

[Dudas]

Based on the rogue order hall missions. Does Mathias Shaw admit his mistake to Anduin/Graymane? Does he explain to the Alliance what really happened? Or is he sweeping it under the rug? It kind of puzzles me that he is still leader of SI:7 after everything that happened... For me it seems that he keeps the secret to himself even though you should inform at least your king with such info. For a big screw up like that most spy agencies leaders would resign since it is clear you can't defend the people you swore to defend from the shadows.

[Theoris]

It seems like he is sweeping it under the rug, yes.

[Stardrift]

What exactly did he do? Not familiar with the rogues order hall stuff

[Highwhale]

Based on the rogue order hall missions. Does Mathias Shaw admit his mistake to Anduin/Graymane? Does he explain to the Alliance what really happened? Or is he hiding the dust under the carpet? It kind of puzzles me that he is still leader of SI:7 after everything that happened... For me it seems that he keeps the secret to himself even though you should inform at least your king with such info. For a big screw up like that most spy agencies leaders would resign since it is clear you can't defend the people you swore to defend from the shadows.

Well judging by your logic Horde on mass scale should fire itself for fail at Broken Shore. They were weak and wiped on trash. ROFL.

[ReVnX]

What mistake? Getting captured?

[Verdugo]

What mistake? Getting captured?

He didnt tell alliance what really happened.

[shiava]

what exactly happened? I'm pretty sure Anduin knows his chief spy got replaced by a dreadlord. What else happens on the order hall?

[ReVnX]

He didnt tell alliance what really happened.

That we know of. And what would have changed anyway?

He was only doing his duty and things went south. It's not like he fucked up because of his ineptitude

[Theoris]

What exactly did he do? Not familiar with the rogues order hall stuff

OP makes it sound like it's Mathias' fault, but during the rogue Order Hall campaign we learn that Mathias and the SI:7 were doing reconnaissance on the Broken Shore prior to the Alliance and Horde assaulting it. They figure our pretty quickly that an attack on the shore would be an absolute deathtrap, but before they can relay the information to Varian they are captured by Detheroc.

Detheroc, posing as Shaw, gives the OK sign for the factions to assault the Broken Shore. Afterwards, Detheroc continues to fan the flames between the Alliance and the Horde in order to make them fight each other to make them easy pickings for the Legion.

Cut to the end of the campaign: the rogue PC frees Mathias, then infiltrates Stormwind and kills Detheroc. Mathias, now back in control of the SI:7, says he will sort out the mess and talk to Anduin.

[cparle87]

What exactly did he do? Not familiar with the rogues order hall stuff

He got intel that the Horde and Alliance were walking into a massacre on the Broken Shore, the first time when Varian and Vol'jin were killed. But he was kidnapped and replaced by a dreadlord who told Varian to go ahead with the invasion. Rogues have a storyline where they free Shaw and find all of this out.

[Shampro]

That would require for the narrative to acknowledge Alliance having a bit of drama, can't have that.

[Shadowsgrace]

That's kinda what SI:7 does, it's what intelligence agencies do. They work behind the scenes, both successes and failures are never heard of, until about 40-50 years after the fact when they are declassified.... if possible. Their might be some in the Alliance Leadership that knows what happened, but if they work anyway at all to real life, they would deny it until their last breath.

[Dudas]

That we know of. And what would have changed anyway?
He was only doing his duty and things went south. It's not like he fucked up because of his ineptitude

For a spy agency leader things don't or should never get south. And when they do admit you got outsmarted and admit defeat. In my opinion you know you live in a world of magic so you can't afford to get captured like that and stay as a leader after. At the moment he seems like he is pretending nothing happened and holding that vital information away from Anduin is a big factor imo. Anduin only knows what Graymane told him about the battle since he wasn't there in person and he got his father's letter directly from him. So maybe knowing it was a trap would actually make him question what Graymane is feeding him.

- - - Updated - - -

That's kinda what SI:7 does, it's what intelligence agencies do. They work behind the scenes, both successes and failures are never heard of, until about 40-50 years after the fact when they are declassified.... if possible. Their might be some in the Alliance Leadership that knows what happened, but if they work anyway at all to real life, they would deny it until their last breath.

The issue here is that imo he is the only survivor from the Alliance side so only he can admit/say/report what happened actually. The other members of the Uncrowned are all neutral and admit they will not interfere for any side. But he says he will help the order hall to return the favor cause you saved his lilly human butt, but he admits his allegiance is Alliance so he can't become a member of neutrality. So being the only one that can tell the secret.

[Shadowsgrace]

For a spy agency leader things don't or should never get south. And when they do admit you got outsmarted and admit defeat. In my opinion you know you live in a world of magic so you can't afford to get captured like that and stay as a leader after. At the moment he seems like he is pretending nothing happened and holding that vital information away from Anduin is a big factor imo. Anduin only knows what Graymane told him about the battle since he wasn't there in person and he got his father's letter directly from him. So maybe knowing it was a trap would actually make him question what Graymane is feeding him.

- - - Updated - - -



The issue here is that imo he is the only survivor from the Alliance side so only he can admit/say/report what happened actually. The other members of the Uncrowned are all neutral and admit they will not interfere for any side. But he says he will help the order hall to return the favor cause you saved his lilly human butt, but he admits his allegiance is Alliance so he can't become a member of neutrality. So being the only one that can tell the secret.

Yes, but now he knows truly how strong the neutral "Uncrowned" are, what they are capable of, and.... owes them a Life Debt. Spilling the beans on them would not only admit fault, Getting caught, but would probably just put him on their Hit list. The Uncrowned can easily just disappear if needed, but we're "arguing" fiction there. The NPCs will do what Blizzard devs tell them to do.

[Abeto]

I believe that he did tell Anduin on what happened at the broken shore. However, that doesn't mean he has to let his guard down... I suppose that as soon as Legion was defeated they went back to their "normal" work and their alarms set off with Horde mining azerite.

[Benomatic]

I'm from England, so sorry for asking. What does "sweeping it under the rag" mean?

[Dudas]

I'm from England, so sorry for asking. What does "sweeping it under the rag" mean?

To ignore, deny, or conceal from public view or knowledge something that is embarrassing, unappealing, or damaging to one's reputation.

[KevtheWise]

I'm from England, so sorry for asking. What does "sweeping it under the rag" mean?

He means "sweeping it under the rug", which means you know something, but you don't tell anyone about it. Say I saw you eat all the cookies in a cookie jar, and another person asks "who ate all the cookies?" You likely don't say anything, and I don't say anything, even though I have knowledge of you eating them.

[Deleted]

He has nothing to hide. The fight at the SI:7 headquarter was very obvious and the hunt for the player character equally so. As all the 'Wanted'-signs disappear afterwards and none of the guards hunt you anymore, I'm guessing he reported the full story once he actually got home.

And I imagine it went like this.... Shaw: 'It was a death trap, set up so the Horde and the Alliance armies would get wiped out' - Genn: 'Yea and?' - Shaw: 'Well, I thought you might be interested that the Horde probably was ambushed just like....' Genn: 'Did you see this happen?' Shaw: 'No, but it was the goal...' Genn: 'So you didn't see it, but you defend the Horde's cowardice nonetheless? It cost the life of your king!' - Shaw: 'Uhm, yea but...' - Genn: 'I don't want to hear about it anymore. That's an order.' - Shaw: 'Yessir.'

[Dudas]

Well judging by your logic Horde on mass scale should fire itself for fail at Broken Shore. They were weak and wiped on trash. ROFL.

It doesn't matter what faction I play nor will it matter for lore purposes. I'm not asking for his public hanging in Stormwind or head on a spike in Ogrimmar. But I feel like in those situations you can't close an eye to failure.

Should he have been on the field? As a leader of a spy agency would you have been there? A king has to take those into account for the safety of his people. Mathias Shaw is theoretically the best informed human on Azeroth. The fact that he got outsmarted that badly and got himself captured (I wouldn't have made this post if it was his team only) when his job is to outsmart everyone makes me question him being the leader of SI:7. Those are the aspects that I want to discuss upon.

- - - Updated - - -

He has nothing to hide. The fight at the SI:7 headquarter was very obvious and the hunt for the player character equally so. As all the 'Wanted'-signs disappear afterwards and none of the guards hunt you anymore, I'm guessing he reported the full story once he actually got home.

And I imagine it went like this.... Shaw: 'It was a death trap, set up so the Horde and the Alliance armies would get wiped out' - Genn: 'Yea and?' - Shaw: 'Well, I thought you might be interested that the Horde probably was ambushed just like....' Genn: 'Did you see this happen?' Shaw: 'No, but it was the goal...' Genn: 'So you didn't see it, but you defend the Horde's cowardice nonetheless? It cost the life of your king!' - Shaw: 'Uhm, yea but...' - Genn: 'I don't want to hear about it anymore. That's an order.' - Shaw: 'Yessir.'

The thing that SI:7 members killed one of their own members without question is already kinda spooky. So it seems like the kind of organization more to a military way than a spy agency way. You get the order, you execute the order VS you get the order and try to find more on your own before you execute it cause maybe not everything is what it seems. In a world of illusions and magic nothing should be followed blindly. Everything is deceiving from allies to enemies. You are supposed to be the truth filter. At least that's how I see that organization.

Regarding Graymane I think even him would admit that they got tricked and realize the consequences of that misinformation. Plus I don't think Mathias would report to him instead of Anduin.