[BFA alpha] Enhancement Talent changes

[Rukario]

Noone liked windsong. Enhance has enough buttons and doesnt need additional fire&forget buttons.

The biggest buff is actually the nerf of other specs.

What? o.O
Clearly someone liked it, did you even see what they replaced it with?
Your argument doesn't even make sense, buffing yourself is less annoying than having to drop a totem everytime you move...

[Deleted]

What? o.O
Clearly someone liked it, did you even see what they replaced it with?
Your argument doesn't even make sense, buffing yourself is less annoying than having to drop a totem everytime you move...

Windsong was even very unpopular when it was close performance wise. People skipped it for reasons.

It added no gameplay element (at least HH had some gameplay with ST stacks). Why do you think they removed it?

Crying over stuff noone picked because it sucked designwise. Especially the opener was crazy (try ws+hailstorm in the opener, you need tons of GCDs to start dealing damage). It felt very weird having soooo many GCDs to get 10 buffs up, an extremely boring opener. Earthen Spike fills that "gap" already.

[Rukario]

Windsong was even very unpopular when it was close performance wise. People skipped it for reasons.

It added no gameplay element (at least HH had some gameplay with ST stacks). Why do you think they removed it?

Crying over stuff noone picked because it sucked designwise. Especially the opener was crazy (try ws+hailstorm in the opener, you need tons of GCDs to start dealing damage). It felt very weird having soooo many GCDs to get 10 buffs up, an extremely boring opener. Earthen Spike fills that "gap" already.

SO, you are telling me Totem Mastery is better? o.O
It goes against everything you pointed out...

[Darleth]

SO, you are telling me Totem Mastery is better? o.O
It goes against everything you pointed out...

Thats his point. Its also a boring talent.
The only added benefit Totem Mastery has is, that you can drop it pre-fight and refresh it during the fight. Other than that, it is just another ability you have to press every 2 minutes.
@Klatar I didnt knew that WF Totem would just be stormlash in a new form. If that is the case, it truly is pretty bad. I thought its just going to be like the old WF totem.

[Deleted]

SO, you are telling me Totem Mastery is better? o.O
It goes against everything you pointed out...

The only advantage it has is that it can be dropped pre combat. But yes i dont like those talents. And not every spec has them. If i look at most talents they dont affect our gameplay at all.

But i am playing a lot of specs and enhance rotation has enough buttons. It could need more gameplay.

[Rukario]

The only advantage it has is that it can be dropped pre combat. But yes i dont like those talents. And not every spec has them. If i look at most talents they dont affect our gameplay at all.

But i am playing a lot of specs and enhance rotation has enough buttons. It could need more gameplay.

Honestly, although i do like Windsong, i'd be happy if they just kept the spell effect and used it for something else at least.

We need more wind.

[Deleted]

Honestly, although i do like Windsong, i'd be happy if they just kept the spell effect and used it for something else at least.

We need more wind.

Changes arent final yet. If stormstrike will be nature damage our mastery will be redesigned and ascendance makes no sense. Current iteration doesnt make a lot of sense.

[Rukario]

Changes arent final yet. If stormstrike will be nature damage our mastery will be redesigned and ascendance makes no sense. Current iteration doesnt make a lot of sense.

I suppose Ascendance is there just for the shorter SS cd and ranged attacks, i think it would be nice for it to a have shorter CD maybe(3 min is just too long), i have that legendary that gives you random procs of Ascendance which is kindda nice.
At this point it could well just be a baseline skill, like it used to.

[Deleted]

I suppose Ascendance is there just for the shorter SS cd and ranged attacks, i think it would be nice for it to a have shorter CD maybe(3 min is just too long), i have that legendary that gives you random procs of Ascendance which is kindda nice.
At this point it could well just be a baseline skill, like it used to.

And with stormstrike becoming nature damage, nearly all of our damage is magical damage so mastery makes no sense... and ascendance is even weaker. It is currently behind ES and it's been nerfed by a huge margin wit current changes. ES is now like 10 times better.

[Razaron]

To be honest, it's very hit and mixed at the moment. Some of the new inclusions are good, some are just rehashed and not thought out well.

Problems for me personally-

- I very heavily dislike the notion of totem mastery for enhancement, it doesn't suit enhancement and is a massive step backwards.

- Earthen spike is very viable, but only because of it's debuff effect, for a end tier talent it's not epic at all.

- Elemental spirits is just boring reuse and unless they buff the the damage of spirit wolves dramatically then I really can't see how it will compete with ascendance or earthen spike. I've made a post about the possibility of reintroducing two-handed enhancement as a final talent tier talent with added bonuses to make it viable and compete with ascendance and earthen spike. That to me feels way more interesting and fun passive then elemental spirits.

- Feral lunge is still not baseline and it hurts my eyes every time I see it. Come on blizzard, you've made capacitor totem baseline because everyone picked it, now do the same for feral lunge. So many other classes have way more mobility then shamans already, don't make us have to pick a talent for a basic melee charge ability glamoured up as a feral lunge.

Conclusion:

Some talents are not fun
End tier talents aren't epic enough cosmetically
Reused material that has been removed from baseline and reintroduced as a talent pick. Recycling abilities either shows your incompetence or lack of imagination.
Then you have abilities like feral lunge which should be baseline, but has always been a talent choice. It's a basic charge ability .

p.s Remember this is just my personal opinion.

[psir]

I was hoping they would remove "Fury of air" all together. Most boring spell ever

[Deleted]

I would love if they focused certain paths down the talent tree. Two different dps paths which have benefits and downsides depending on the encounter. But with a third more utility based path. The healing and utility talents would be put on the right row, allowing you to sacrifice dps for support if you so wish.

Two dps paths could be somewhat similar to the Legendary bracers and gloves. A frost and fire alongside a thunder and earth path. you can of course pick whatever talent you want but the paths would have more synergy. Fire Hands would in such a system lead in towards Hailstorm at 45 and Searing Assault at 60. Landslide should just go towards nature and physical, which would then lead you towards Boulderfist at 45 and Overcharge at 60.

Those talents would of course have to be tuned for that. I'd make Feral Lunge baseline and put Lightning Shield in it's position. That tier would then have the option for party/raid healing, party/raid movement or pure dps for your self.

I would also buff Feral spirit, making it three wolves so that if you pick Elemental spirits you'd get one fire, one frost and one thunder wolf.

[Deleted]

Things I'd like to see:
- Removal of Totem Mastery, too tedious and boring.
- Feral Lunge reworked and baseline. Off the GCD, longer distance. I can live with the slow charge.
- Replace Landslide with a new debuff to manage. Landslide is basically always on, it requires almost no thought to maintain.
- Windfury Totem is indeed just a reworked Stormlash. You're just taking damage away from yourself and redistributing it to others. That's not utility, it's simply displaced damage.
- They can remove Fury Of Air for all I care. On most fights you just turn it on and don't really bother too much.
- Row 100 feels lackluster. Ascendance remains a great talent, and a satisfying cd, but the other 2 feel pretty lame.

I'd like to see more effective AoE/Cleave options and a short DPS cd (like Doomwinds) on a charge system.

[Xorzor]

I agree that Feral Lunge should be baseline!

I also think that Ghost Wolf should have move speed equal to your mount speed. Like Travel Form for Druids was when Legion dropped? Either way it should be faster than 30%. I will also miss having Rehgar as a bodyguard, because his passive made Ghost Wolf slightly faster than max Ground Mount speed. Very handy!

Happy to see that I can take Boulderfist and not miss out on Earthen Spike.

[sebax313]

I also think that Ghost Wolf should have move speed equal to your mount speed.

Just lol.

I will also miss having Rehgar as a bodyguard, because his passive made Ghost Wolf slightly faster than max Ground Mount speed.

Ground mount is 10% faster than Ghost Wolf with Rehgar.

[Xorzor]

Ground mount is 10% faster than Ghost Wolf with Rehgar.

My mistake. In any case it is still better, because Ghost Wolf doesn't take 1.5 seconds to cast.

[Deleted]

I'm still not sold on the idea to juggle buffs. I get that they wanted to give a new meaning to the term "enhancement" that was lost with imbues and unique buffs/buff totems, but still...
As such, abilities and talents like Flametongue, Hailstorm, Landslide, Crashing Storm, Earthen Spike do not speak to me that much.

15 - Make a glyph that places 4 cosmetic totems, and get rid of mastery. Replace it with a talent like hot hands that is more interactive, and keep landslide as the inferior talent for lazy people, or replace it with Earthen Spike.
30 - Static Charge confuses me. Does the 1m cd I see mean you can only get that reduction only on every over capacitor (provided you get the cd reduction on CPT and use it right away when of cd)? If so, it feels rather underwhelming.

I have a hard time seeing Spirit Wolf as good also, mainly because it takes 4 seconds to fully charge up, basically locks you out of all other abilities (including heals which you'll probably want in a situation where you want dmg reduction) and falls off as soon as you do use an ability that breaks gw. GW even with 150% speed is snared to 100% with most snares others have, so I imagine it will ofttimes not make a difference, not mentioning that 20% mitigation isn't all that much, esp considering you cant heal yourself and pass on Earth Shield to get it.

For me, ES sits solidly in the top spot of the tier (depending on how much it will account for in healing) by far. They could switch things up and place Ancestral Guidance in the tier instead of Spirit Wolf, and maybe have Static Charge heal you and your team for 10% max health or so for every enemy stunned.
That would make it a pure healing tier, while placing different characteristics on how to get that heal.

45 - Still a shitty tier. Boring passive haste, boring passive dmg and another buff to juggle.
LS is borderline tolerable imo, because it at least provides something visually, unlike Ancestral Swiftness/Searing Assault.
AS/SA should be replaced with something more interactive, to keep it at one passive talent per row.
Why not make Hailstorm, instead of adding damage to fb (yawn) actually give you a new frost based ability, as the name would have made you think? I wouldn't mind getting Frost Shock/Frozen Power back (taking the place of Frostbrand), or something entirely new and different alltogether. We have even less in terms of frost visuals than we did WoD and prior due to FrS gone, so it would be an welcome addition.

60 - Overcharge is nice. It keeps the old MSW idea alive while adding a frequently avaiable form of burst.
Windfury Totem is horrible though.
I dont know if it is destroyable in this version since it doesn't state the 5 hp anymore, nor is it clear wether or not those 20 attacks are shared between allies, or if anyone has his/her own.
BUT
If it doesn't actually provide extra attacks (which can proc stuff) and instead just adds a %extra damage, then no thanks to that. It's just pandering to nostalgia slaves in offering it back in name, similar story with totem mastery.
Boulderfist is just boring. With 6s recharge baseline and scaling with haste, I cant imagine a 15% reduce to be much of an impact (0.9s if it's effect is additive with haste ). And flat extra damage is the definition of boring.
I'd rather see a change to how RB works, or a new ability. They could make it a cd that makes your next RB generate increased maelstrom, for example.

75 - Spirit Wolf would replace AG. Maybe add a slight health regenerate to it (5% every 3 seconds or so) or the ability to at least use heals in the form, dunno if that'd be to much, but it would have to compete with Feral Lunge, so yeah.
WRT, with the cd it has and the very niche it is useful in (pillar humping in arenas) should last longer and if it currently is, shouldn't be targetable.

90 - I'd rather they replace Crashing Storm with Fire Nova. Fire Nova could go off the caster, apply a debuff on targets hit, and then go off of these on subsequent casts.
Dunno, I just missed it after WoD.
Fury of Air would be more interesting as a cd, imo. High MS cost, a cd, high aoe burst, more in the direction of bladestorm.

100 - Elemental Spirits, unless they grant the shaman himself active, usable abilities, are not worthy of being a 100 talent. If it's just about cosmetics, make it a glyph instead. If they end up on par as wotlk Feral Spirits, the talent would be well placed.
3rd option (instead of Earthen Spike, provided it took Landslide's place in t15)...dunno. Maybe 2h like some said.

[Phaty]

My mistake. In any case it is still better, because Ghost Wolf doesn't take 1.5 seconds to cast.

and it cant be dismounted

[Deleted]

I wonder why many people believe that juggling 10 buffs is "fun".

The current opener (lets say with Hailstorm and Windstorm) would be insanely bloated.

RB FT (Windsong/Hailstorm) FOA SW CS RB ... is already bloated as fuck. It feels passive without any hardhitter. It's not like pooling ressources.

Having some buffs is okay'ish. But if Hailstorm makes a comeback, the rotation has enough "buffs" to juggle.

[Razaron]

One of the quality of life changes I'd like would be that Flametongue and all buff weapons didn't need you to target an enemy, so you could just apply it free of charge.