Trump announces protective tariffs on steel and aluminum imports

[Breccia]

Fourteen billion was how much they actually export to China in 2017. The total US soy bean export in 2017 was 23 billion.

Yeah I was throwing out half as an example, since tariffs wouldn't cut imports to zero; didn't see you'd already used half. Sorry for the confusion.

[Rasulis]

NP. The whole thing is stupid. US is the third largest steel producer in the world, with nearly 5.4% share in world crude steel production. Combined with the weakening dollar vs. yuan, subsidizing the industry is a better option than tariff.

[Breccia]

subsidizing the industry is a better option than tariff.

With what money? Trump's policy already has the US govt drowning in debt and he doesn't even have the infrastructure bill yet.

[Flarelaine]

Trump has finally lost his mind. First the NRA 180 and now this. This is a man who has lost Hope.

Fixed that for you.

[Hobb]

If I were to guess, this won't last much longer than Bush era tarrifs did. Cause the rest of the world is sure to retaliate if these tarrifs happen.

Canada and the EU countries have already promised counter tariffs if these go into effect.

[Breccia]

Canada and the EU countries have already promised counter tariffs if these go into effect.

Don't forget China!

Also, the WTO could take a dim view of things. That "national security" excuse is bullshit and everyone knows it, especially Trump.

[CostinR]

Don't forget China!

Also, the WTO could take a dim view of things. That "national security" excuse is bullshit and everyone knows it, especially Trump.

Seriously you're afraid of China?

Actually no. You think the United States SHOULD be afraid of how China reacts? China America's current no. 1 political rival.

It's reasonable and sensical to care about how the EU and Canada will react, how America's allies in general will react but America should do whatever it can to make sure it has every political advantage over China and yes that means ultimately reducing imports of goods from the Chinese.

Trump should have just imposed the highest possible tariff on China and ONLY China.

[Hobb]

Seriously you're afraid of China?

Actually no. You think the United States SHOULD be afraid of how China reacts? China America's current no. 1 political rival.

It's reasonable and sensical to care about how the EU and Canada will react, how America's allies in general will react but America should do whatever it can to make sure it has every political advantage over China and yes that means ultimately reducing imports of goods from the Chinese.

Trump should have just imposed the highest possible tariff on China and ONLY China.

You don't seem to see the bigger picture.

It opens markets that the US exports into to be overtaken by China due to tariffs placed against US products.

For example South Korea is a major importer of US beef. If South Korea retaliates by placing a tariff on US beef, it opens it up for a cheaper importer to move on in.

[Paranoid Android]

BREAKING: Trump confidant dumped millions in steel-related stock last week, days before tariff announcement https://t.co/HL4wYHivLY https://t.co/KoE2GeLipP

https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status...469413376?s=19

No big conspiracy here. Just that Trump is dumb enough and likely bragged to this guy what he was about to do. Actually this person might have influenced Donny Orange Turd to implement this tariff and then dump stock. Trump is a moron and is easily talked into anything he does. Fact.

[Breccia]

Seriously you're afraid of China?

In terms of losing trade? Yes. Why wouldn't we be? China buys a lot of our stuff, including our debt. Losing China as a worthwhile trading partner alone would be bad, but if they just dumped all their dollars on the open market, the falling dollar would break the fuckin' sound barrier.

AND don't forget the context of "everyone else is planning to retaliate too". You're suggesting we shouldn't be afraid of the tiger, when the entire zoo is coming to bite us in the ass.

Also, what you're suggesting -- imposing a tariff only against China -- is something I've now brought up multiple times as a WTO violation. Unless they can show China's breaking trade rules -- which Obama did, thanks Obama -- that's a Most Favored Nation violation, and the last time we did that, we were forced to back down or eat a $2 billion fine. Also, it cost us 200,000 jobs in under two years.

There nothing, nothing, about this context that says we shouldn't be afraid of China. Every single bit of this situation has given China an even stronger edge. Basically, someone at a bar dissed our girlfriend, we took a swing at them, missed, and hit a pregnant lady in front of the bouncer. We apologize now, or we get thrown out.

- - - Updated - - -

"This whole issue can blow up the WTO," Axel Eggert, the head of the European Steel Association, told Bloomberg in an interview. "This is not about national security. This is about propping up a U.S. industry that isn’t viable."

Nobody is buying the "national security" limp-dick IMPOTUS excuse. Not even our allies.

[kaelleria]

I don't think people understand that the current global economy is the a big reason why we don't see hot conflicts all over the place...

If the US economy goes to shit, why would China and Russia avoid conflicts?

[CostinR]

There nothing, nothing, about this context that says we shouldn't be afraid of China. Every single bit of this situation has given China an even stronger edge. Basically, someone at a bar dissed our girlfriend, we took a swing at them, missed, and hit a pregnant lady in front of the bouncer. We apologize now, or we get thrown out.

Only a weak pathetic child apologizes.

Superpowers don't apologize. Are you a kid that's crying for mama or the most powerful economic, diplomatic and military nation on the planet?

Oh and before I continue I'd like to remind you that the Democrats where skewering Trump for NOT doing just this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/26/b...m-tariffs.html

Frustration over President Trump’s delay in imposing the stiff tariffs he has promised on imports of foreign steel and aluminum is morphing into a fight over two of Mr. Trump’s trade policy nominees.

Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the Democratic leader, said on Thursday that he would block the nominations of Gilbert B. Kaplan for the top international trade post at the Commerce Department and Nazakhtar Nikakhtar for assistant secretary of commerce until the White House advanced a stalled effort to protect American metal producers from cheap Chinese products.

So do please oppose something that Schumer, and virtually almost all democrats in Washington support because Trump did it.

As for your laughable notion on the "zoo coming to bite America". No the zoo will do exactly what it did when Congress imposed sanctions on Russia, which Europe despises by the way, or when Trump left Paris, or when he did his muslim ban or when he declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel etc.

Absolutely FUCK ALL.

So no the zoo will bark, very loudly in fact, but in terms of actual actions or change of policies it will do very little. This may or may not include China but it will certainly include the EU which is not as united or well led as you might believe. Europe is not Merkel or Macron or Bruxelless.

As for China? China is on it's way towards economic collapse. America and the rest of the world would do very well to isolate themselves from that blast wave because it will hit and will hit hard. Of course it will be very painful to cut the significant economic ties with them but understand that there is no bright future for them. Especially not with Xi Jinping making himself dictator for life recently.

If the US economy goes to shit, why would China and Russia avoid conflicts?

It's the Russian and Chinese economies that are quite frankly going to shit.

[Rasulis]

With what money? Trump's policy already has the US govt drowning in debt and he doesn't even have the infrastructure bill yet.

There are ways. It would require cooperation from Senate & Congress.

They could borrow from the oil companies’ playbook.

Reduce tax rate to 15%, even 10% for the steel/aluminum industry.

Give them the option to defer their tax in exchange for debt in the form of tax liabilities owed to the federal government.

Allow them to deduct their capital investment upfront instead of over the life of the equipment.

They could do like the Chinese, and provide discounted energy for manufacturing.

Make “Buy America” a requirement for all public work projects. Right now it only applies to Federally funded projects and also some states/counties/cities/municipalities.

Discounted and accelerated federal/local permitting process for private projects that will commit to “Buy America.”

[ifrah]

Why not impose similar rules and restrictions for Chinese companies running in US, as the US or any other foreign companies have in China? That would make things interesting. But of course, it won't happen. The always fair, friendly and ever so open Chinese would not approve such deal, what an obnoxious trick that would be against that wonderland. Which however all in its irony would be the first time the Chinese tasted their own medicine.

[Draco-Onis]

Why not impose similar rules and restrictions for Chinese companies running in US, as the US or any other foreign companies have in China? That would make things interesting. But of course, it won't happen. The always fair, friendly and ever so open Chinese would not approve such deal, what an obnoxious trick that would be against that wonderland. Which however all in its irony would be the first time the Chinese tasted their own medicine.

China represents 2% of US steel import the rest are from allies this is the equivalent of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[CostinR]

China represents 2% of US steel import the rest are from allies this is the equivalent of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Yet China is the biggest problem on the issue of world steel prices being so low. Since they produce half the world's steel.

It's not America that buys the most of course. It's Europe that suffers heavily as a result of Chinese steel. The same Europe that sells the most steel to America.

[Draco-Onis]

Yet China is the biggest problem on the issue of world steel prices being so low. Since they produce half the world's steel.

And how does this tariff address any of that? if you haven't noticed China and the rest of the world have joined together on this. This does the opposite of addressing any concerns you have on China, this makes it the world vs US.

[Dhrizzle]

Why not impose similar rules and restrictions for Chinese companies running in US, as the US or any other foreign companies have in China? That would make things interesting. But of course, it won't happen. The always fair, friendly and ever so open Chinese would not approve such deal, what an obnoxious trick that would be against that wonderland. Which however all in its irony would be the first time the Chinese tasted their own medicine.

"the first time the Chinese tasted their own medicine." You don't know much of China's history do you, cos the past few centuries of other powers fucking with China and their neighbours is what inspired them to get super rich and control their own economic destiny.

[CostinR]

And how does this tariff address any of that? if you haven't noticed China and the rest of the world have joined together on this. This does the opposite of addressing any concerns you have on China, this makes it the world vs US.

Joined together in what? Barking at Trump? Meaningless.

Here's a lesson in politics people: Just because someone says something, especially someone like the EU which is highly divided at the moment and is not represented by that idiot Junker, doesn't mean they will do anything.

Or someone like China, which needs the US a lot more then the US needs it.

Europe has said a great deal about Trump. They've done very little, except having many countries bend over on his demands for defense spending, because those that aren't increasing defense spending are finding themselves becoming irrelevant.

[Draco-Onis]

Joined together in what? Barking at Trump? Meaningless.

Here's a lesson in politics people: Just because someone says something, especially someone like the EU which is highly divided at the moment and is not represented by that idiot Junker, doesn't mean they will do anything.

It's all the countries this would affect including Canada here's a lesson for you look up soft power the thing we have been bleeding under Trump. Again how does this tariff address any of your concerns on China? it does not hurt China it hurts the US standing in the world and our trade relationships overall.