Will ever Blizzard adress Wow’s pay2win problem?

[Lochton]

No, it is more about the fact that most people lack the skill to play mythic raids.

Or even the wish to play mythic raids. I mean, it is a lot of commitment needed, or dont you agree?

Indeed but that is how it goes if people aren't enough to form it. Now if you had loot from there by a boost, it would be a service you purchased from a player, nothing more.

[Deleted]

And that is why this mythic+ score bullshit is stupid af on those thirdparty sites. It doesn't guarantue you anything on quality for the run. I had a guy that was insisting on searching for people with some good mythic+ scores on a random thirdparty site. because he wanted to 3 chest the key etc. pp.

Guess what, we didn't even made it after first boss because someone left for whatever reason he had (like it is very often... pepople flame and blame, just one wipe and they ragequit..) this guy had high mythic+ score, like the other 2 dps. But, funny thing is, he didn't even deliver on the damage part. It was just a joke. And the 2 other guys weren' much better.

On the other hand, a day before I had the same key and did a totally random group with looking up for this wannabe elitism mythic+ score bullshit. I just choose by ilvl and classes/speccs which could be good in that particular dungeon. And yeh, I made the key in time with no problems whatsoever. And all the guys i invited didn't even have any high mythic+ scores whatsoever.

I am at that point that I refuse to invite people that whisper me with their mythic+ score + random thirdparty website link to "proof" anything. As I know, that guy has a very high chance to be an wannabe elitism jerk that just will leave after one single mistake or anything that doesn't goes the way HE wants it to be. No thanks, no interested in those idiots. I can perfectly clear a higher key with random people without the need to look up meaningless mythic+ scores somewhere.
Also to note, those sites are horrible in updating things. had a guy looking me up after I opted in for a raid on my BfA preorder boosted level 110 character. On this particular site it shoed me like 902 ilvl, even tho I was already 935 ilvl. He refused to invite me first. After I told him to fucking look up on official armory instead of those stupid thirdparty sites.

Stop being so butthurt about the mythic+ score. It's a good thing if people would use it correctly. Blizzard doesn't give you any Benchmark but their Leaderboards. People who create groups and what to play the key seriously have no other choice than using the raider.io Addon. If you found a group with low mythic+ score thats fine, I am completely okay with that, but I wouldn't take people without a good score if you try to run a 17+ key. Don't blame the developers behind raider.io for people wanting to be carried through mythic+ dungeons.
Furthermore I believe (I don't know it but according to statistical thinking) that groups who are looking for high mythic+ score people will have more success than groups with randomly chosen people.

[Deleted]

Pay2Win is basically when you can start purchasing 'power' (i.e. gear/buffs). Not really Pay2Win to purchase a pet or mount. Though, the pets are a bit down the road as someone pointed out but not enough to be a warning.

As for the loot boxes, not really Pay2Win either - just all looks. Unless they unlocked a class or special options.

Misquote? I said the same thing.

However, buying gear/buffs by itself isn't p2win, especially not if you only get them when other players boost you.

[Soon-TM]

It's sad how many folks are in straight denial about the (unintended? ) consequences of the wow token and would rather redefine what is p2w instead of accepting that it's happening, right now, to an extent at least.

[RoKPaNda]

Vanity items and gear you wouldnt get otherwise. I actually never bought gear or a raidspot, but a friend did. He is running around in world quest gear and mythic pieces and acts as if he was the best guy, while it is only the guilds which carry him who do the work for him.

I am also not envious. Just sad that it is possible to do that. He invests hundreds of euro just to get carried.

So the gear is worthless, even more so in the patch cycle after it's bought, and the vanity items are pretty worthless too. I mean you can just farm those the next expansion anyway. Your friend didn't win shit, he just paid real money to get some loot in WoW that doesn't really get him anything anyway. So again, where is the win in the pay2win claim?

[barrsftw]

By most of the "logic" in this thread, literally every game is p2w. You can pay someone money to play you're account and win, therefore it's p2w! Absurd logic.

[Teri]

It's sad how many folks are in straight denial about the (unintended? ) consequences of the wow token and would rather redefine what is p2w instead of accepting that it's happening, right now, to an extent at least.

Wowtoken, or Gold Farmer sites, either way, boosts would continue.

The fact that you can easily clear Normal in Mythic gear is more of a reason for a surge in boosts then gold from tokens. Especially this late in expansion. Normal drops 930 gear, Mythic people are up to 985. (right now there are people with 984 equipped).

Even so, there's not just boosts for raids, also some mounts (realmhopping), M+ (15 is also overgeared with current max gear), Dungeon Leveling (101 twinks), Mage tower (playing someone elses account=illegal even with gold)

Gold is certainly not the only cause of boosts, game design plays a big role too.

[Nefarious Tea]

Pay2win means you can buy power with money. You can buy gold with money and power (gear) with gold. Neither of which is illegal in the game.
Not saying, that this is a big problem, because MMOs are much more complex than "have good gear->win the game", but as long as you can legaly buy power with money in WoW, so it is most definetely pay to win in some shapes and forms.

It's not pay to win because you're not paying the game itself/the developers as is the case in such games. You're paying the playerbase to do things for you - hell, raid carries often tell you to kill yourself ASAP so you don't fuck things up (source: have carried people before.)

It's not really pay to win, either: no amount of power in the world will see a bad player down Mythic raid bosses without being hardcarried. They could have every slot 985 titanforged with perfectly rolled 985 relics and their two best legendaries and the maximum possible ilvl of 988.9, and they still wouldn't do above a million DPS and would still die to the first mechanic.

[Zantos]

Unfair advantage, can’t fully tell if a player is good or not e.g. he gets a boost on the last boss and posts curve giving the illusion that he is experienced, it gives the harder content less value, as even newbies can buy themselves into it. Yes, it does affect me, as I follow the rule and I want everyone to do the same, so that the game is fairly competitive on all aspects.

Having good gear =/= having an unfair advantage. Sure, maybe if its a Full set of the best gear in the game you'll have a slight pad to help, but it wont cover up a lack of skill. If your dps is crap, that gear wont keep you in a raid. If your skills are lack luster, they wont save you in a PvP match. You cannot pay to win. Pay to win is literally that, paying to be able to win. You would have to be able to buy an advantage in the form of gear, off of their shop, that is superior to Anything in game, and for it to be to the point that your lack of skill wont matter because the gear is just That good. That way, the only ones you're competing against are other people who paid for the gear.

If you cant tell the difference between a good or bad player, then that is on you. It should be painfully obvious by the first raid boss or first pvp match if they suck or not.

So the reason they haven't addressed it is because it Doesn't Exist.

[Deleted]

Would be great if they did. The rampant pre-mades vs randoms that exploit the system have done more to kill pvp than any changes.

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By most of the "logic" in this thread, literally every game is p2w. You can pay someone money to play you're account and win, therefore it's p2w! Absurd logic.

If you pay money for it, it technicly is.

[sil3ntearth]

By most of the "logic" in this thread, literally every game is p2w. You can pay someone money to play you're account and win, therefore it's p2w! Absurd logic.

That's because of their definition of winning. By their definition I should be able to go to the local sporting goods store, buy all their best equipment for any sport I decide to participate in, and that should be considered winning. In fact, I've accomplished nothing more than spending money on stuff I have no idea how to use or utilize. I'd just be an overweight old guy in expensive sports equipment/clothes and looking quite foolish.

[Ielenia]

The idea of "pay2win" was borne out of games that sold clear, distinct advantages to players that were normally inaccessible to the playerbase. I.E. gear and stat boosts that you just can't find in the normal game, only if you forked out real cash. To the point that the best geared player that didn't spend a single dime would still get outmatched by someone who opened their wallets to the cash shop.

The problem began when people started to "dilute" the 'pay2win' term by using it to describe everything that was fully available and attainable in-game, but they, themselves, didn't have immediate access to, while other, better geared/ranked players were boosting others, and that has just made the term start to lose its real meaning.

I mean, unironically calling "WTS ATOC spot, PST" and the like as 'pay-to-win' is rather laughable.

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If you pay money for it, it technicly is.

And this is an example of someone using the term wrong.

[Deleted]

And this is an example of someone using the term wrong.

You are wrong because these services are widely publicised in-game. Wether blizzard is the one selling them or not.

[Dareous]

In a skill based game like WoW (questionable?) there is no pay2win, there is pay2get-ahead. You can spend all the money in the world to get all the best items, ratings and required achievements. If you don't know what you are doing you will still suck and people will notice.

[Zantos]

You are wrong because these services are widely publicised in-game. Wether blizzard is the one selling them or not.

You are wrong because, like he said, it Only applies in situations where you can pay real money for clear, distinct advantages, that are Not accessible in the game in any way unless you've purchased it off of a store.

Name 1 instance of an item being sold in the store for WoW that is Better then anything else in the game. All you need is one instance of this, and you'll be right. It can be for any slot. It can be maybe a buff that increases their stats beyond what a top geared player could achieve. Just one example of this.

If you cannot list one example of an item being sold, By blizzard or a third party, that is Far stronger then Anything present in the game, then its not pay 2 win. Things that do not count are things such as carries, since any player can achieve the same thing without spending any form of currency.

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In a skill based game like WoW (questionable?) there is no pay2win, there is pay2get-ahead. You can spend all the money in the world to get all the best items, ratings and required achievements. If you don't know what you are doing you will still suck and people will notice.

Exactly. Not winning anything if you suck. Gear or no gear. Wont be kept around if you're bad just because your ilevel is high.

[sil3ntearth]

For me pay to win means to be able to buy ingame progression for real money.

My hope has always been that the people that spend a ton of cash on high item level items will eventually flunk out and the people that earned them without paying cash will have more staying power.

[PaladinBash]

People have paid for carries since forever. They're always going to. Some people are just random slackers paying for arena point caps to gear up their useless alts in the past or just wanting to get a mount at the end of the expansion or some shit. Those are by far the most common forms of people 'paying to win' and they are both harmless and very far from toxic.

[Teri]

My hope has always been that the people that spend a ton of cash on high item level items will eventually flunk out and the people that earned them without paying cash will have more staying power.

Each expansion is a "reset" so their gear is meaningless if some "whale" paid a lot of money/token/gold whatever.

Meanwhile, the organized guilds and whatever could last multiple expansions and don't pay for gear at all.

[Orby]

Nice click bait title, can you rename it to 'Will Blizzard address WoW's third party pay2win problem?' Because people on this forum cannot read and respond to titles only, there for derailing the initial conversation :P

Or can we get a mod to change it.

[Kul Tiras]

Obviously, legally speaking, when you follow blizzard’s terms and conditions, this game is not p2win.

I am speaking about third parties that provide services which are technically pay2win. Blizzard has a huge player base, in millions, it is hardly ever they will ban 100% of the players who use those services, which in return this makes for those users a pay2win situation.

I am not going to enlist what those third parties offer, but they will do something for you ingame which probably you will never do or get, for reasons that, you might have no time, the content is hard for you, etc.

Will Blizzard do something about the pay2win problem that third parties offer? I understand that those services existed since vanilla, but try to understand they were very expensive back then, I remember where 1 gold was worth 1 dollar or even more. The problem is now that poor eu countries charge for those services much cheaper hence more players are buying and its putting more fuel to the fire.

what in the unholy fuck are you talking about?