The BfA Feature No One is Talking About

[tipsoutbaby]

As a Classic WoW fan myself, I've found it difficult to invest myself in the modern iterations of the game. However, I'm also an MMORPG fan, and like so many of you, I've been patiently waiting for the "next big game" to arrive and disrupt the current MMO market. It turns out, this might not be a new MMO after all; it may just be World of Warcraft's new expansion. Battle for Azeroth brings a few new interesting features to the table, sure, but it's THIS seldom-discussed technology the expansion is sporting that will be changing the entire industry. I'm talking about 'Advanced AI'.

Let's start off with a few quotes from Senior Game Designer, Jeremy Feasel (Muffinus), who in a recent Forbes interview discussed how the new advanced AI of BfA operates:

"They operate on a completely separate set of rules. They don’t go into combat as traditional creatures do. They never leash. They don’t evade. They can make their way across any tactical space in any configuration that we can spawn, from any starting location."

"...[they] understand how to go into a defensive position and, for example, run out of line of sight of you if they know you’re going to shoot them. They understand how to do that."


AI has always been assumed to be the "next frontier" of technological progression, but even in the context of MMOs, it's application is exciting. Think about a game where the AI can operate the way Jeremy is describing. Then take it one step further; think about AI so advanced, that monsters and NPCs in the world could operate with almost the same level of autonomy as an other player. NPCs could have their own objectives, their own progression, their own motives. You could see a friendly NPC running around chopping wood 1 minute, and then the next minute he is grinding mobs for a quest. Talk about bringing a world to LIFE.

Sure, BfA's advanced AI doesn't promise any of this, but it does show that progress is being made in this field, and as history as shown us, whenever Blizzard decides to pursue emergent technology, it's usually because the tech is almost ready to do what they want it to do (e.g. scaling). Although I admit, I am far more excited for Classic WoW than BfA, advanced AI is something I will be checking out come September, and maybe even making a few videos on in the future.


But what do you guys think? What role can you see advanced AI having in BfA and beyond?

[Shelly]

Depending on how it's implemented it could be a pretty huge game changer in raids, but overall I don't see it having that big a difference.

Most of PvE is about pattern recognition, to change it to be entirely adaptive and more akin to PvP on a whole would be detrimental to the game. Think already about how many times you run into bullshit with the game, things like a boss that fears 5 people in a raid but because you're going in with a group of 10 you're constantly getting feared every 30s.

Now imagine if the game was structurally built to beat you with complete access to a full toolkit.

I'm not saying that it would then be unwinnable, but it would be such a pain in the ass that any content with it in there would be avoided.

Like Blizz has mentioned one of the AI enemies you'll face is a rogue that has a propensity for stunning your tank or healer - if it's really good at that or has like a respawn timer if you kill it so you're constantly having to deal with the stun the challenge no longer becomes how to deal with the rogue but how to soldier through frustrating content.

Not difficult, frustrating.

It's not a beneficial roadblock for WoW to put up and would result in players gravitating towards easier content or content that had better rewards for an equal amount of frustration.

I'm totally in favor of seeing what they come up with, but I can't help but think that we'll be looking at quite a few tweaks even after it goes live to strike that balance between challenge and frustration.

As it stands if it takes more than 15 minutes to do an island I think they'll have failed.

[nomorepriest]

Looking forward to “west world”

[Sliske]

No one is talking about it because theres zero information about them at all and the 'information' that is available is nothing more than pre-Alpha talk by devs.

Know what else was pre-Alpha talk by devs? Path of the Titans, Dance Studio, Aerial Combat, Moving your Garrison to any zone in Draenor, Karabor as a faction capital etc.

[Soulwind]

I think it's unlikely we'll see it in raids, as that's an environment built around predictable challenges that you must learn and execute with varying levels of precision.

In my opinion, the result of combining a raid-like environment with this AI were Warfronts. A, from what we know, less strict environment, more similar to a battleground or a MOBA map, in which you (and the enemy) have many more options at any point, but each of them are less important to the match.

This allows the AI to act unexpectedly, but have less of an immediate impact.

As for what this could become in the future, who knows. From more immersive questing, with NPCs that act more naturally, to maybe singleplayer scenarios/dungeons/LFR, if the AI is good enough to replace your companions. We could come up with hundreds of theories, but since we don't know the real requirements and limitations of this technology, it's up to Blizzard to choose where and how it's implemented.

[Kantoro]

Mobs don't reset or leash?

What a fucking disaster that will be. People don't stop for mobs they don't need to kill. So when they aggro them, they just keeping moving and the mobs go away. Now, ppl will be dragging 20,30,40 mobs around.

What a stupid concept.

[Izalla]

I expect this to turn out as interesting and different and varied as all the daily systems they came up with that were gonna be super random and totally different and new and interesting every time. I have low expectations. Will be nice if they manage to make something legit though.

[clevin]

Mobs don't reset or leash?

What a fucking disaster that will be. People don't stop for mobs they don't need to kill.

I think that's the point - to make it more realistic and in a real setting you wouldn't just run by 20 mobs and they'd give up. They'd keep after you.

My question on this AI is whether pets will get it.

[Thimagryn]

Mobs don't reset or leash?

What a fucking disaster that will be. People don't stop for mobs they don't need to kill. So when they aggro them, they just keeping moving and the mobs go away. Now, ppl will be dragging 20,30,40 mobs around.

What a stupid concept.

Maybe because currently mobs are a repetitive bore with no challenge to them other than having greater hit points than a regular mob and a special ability or two. Having challenging AI might be a gamechanger, who knows.

[btlcryct]

I think that's the point - to make it more realistic and in a real setting you wouldn't just run by 20 mobs and they'd give up. They'd keep after you.

My question on this AI is whether pets will get it.

It could also be used for trolling. Throw on barding, run through mobs from people leveling, run them away. No mobs for you!

I was leveling a nightborne in Ghostlands and saw several Alliance 110s just AOEing quest mobs so those leveling couldn't kill them.

[Soulwind]

Mobs don't reset or leash?

What a fucking disaster that will be. People don't stop for mobs they don't need to kill. So when they aggro them, they just keeping moving and the mobs go away. Now, ppl will be dragging 20,30,40 mobs around.

What a stupid concept.

For one, I don't think there's ever going to be 20 (let alone 30 or 40) of these around. Islands have three, warfronts have... probably no more than ten? And they're supposed to be player-like elite mobs, so two of them would most likely not allow you to run at all.

This isn't supposed to replace the normal mobs, this is for very specific, instanced, situations.

Although I wonder what would happen if they dropped an AI NPC in Kul'tiras/Zandalar every few days that ran from zone to zone, ganking questing players and hiding from groups. It'd be an interesting source for an achievement, title and/or mount.

[Soon-TM]

I'm talking about 'Advanced AI'.

I will believe it when I see it. Too many games have already boasted about "advanced AI" and it's just either the AI knowing everything you are going to do beforehand, or it having access to cheating, sort of: extra resources, lower building/production/casting times, obscene damage, deceitful animations, etc.

[Kantoro]

I think that's the point - to make it more realistic and in a real setting you wouldn't just run by 20 mobs and they'd give up. They'd keep after you.

My question on this AI is whether pets will get it.

I don't want more realistic. I want to play the game the way I want, I want to get to my objective and complete it. This is a way to DRASTICALLY slow down the game and quite honestly, a deal breaker for me. I will not play a game that wastes 90% of my time on stupid shit like that murloc who dazed me off my mount, so I have to turn around and kill it -- over and over and over and over and over. Now I can't even ignore it, becuz it will follow me forever.

Not to mention the asswipes who will be dragging giant elite mobs to lowbie areas just to watch the giant elite grief ppl. This change will be monumentally retarded and in no way will enhance the game.

[Valette]

Maybe because currently mobs are a repetitive bore with no challenge to them other than having greater hit points than a regular mob and a special ability or two. Having challenging AI might be a gamechanger, who knows.

Also worth nothing that a smart AI wouldnt follow you forever. It would realize the "battle is lost", that he cant catch up to you. He will decide to return "home", not because he ran his pre-set limit, but because its the logical thing to do.

[Kraddark]

If the mobs really don't leash we will see horrible stacks of enemies getting dragged around zones. Some people say it is "realism" but I don't see how it is anymore realistic than an enemy who stops chasing after realizing its original goal (defending its habitat) has been achieved. For the most part, monsters aren't thinking "I gotta kill this elf." They think "I gotta keep this elf away from my cubs/food source/area of interest."

I do like the idea of better AI on mobs. Giving enemies a bigger variety of abilities and having them take advantage of basic mechanics sounds like it will make for a more engaging fight.

[Joeygiggles]

The advanced AI is going to be used for the Island Plunders, it won't be applied to raids due to like others have said, the open world eh maybe one day but mobs will still be leashed.

[Gaidax]

Depending on how it's implemented it could be a pretty huge game changer in raids, but overall I don't see it having that big a difference.

I think it will be a huge challenge to use this in raids and it may lead to more bad than good where as opposed to now encounter presents a static problem you need to solve it will turn it to unpredictable dynamic problem and progress may be achieved not because raid does things right, but because AI takes bad decision at the key point.

- - - Updated - - -

As for other than raids and dungeons, it would be interesting to see. I do have concern that it may end up being a big too annoying, because people do, after all, benefit a lot from the usual banding and exploiting of basic AI to make lives easier.

They had this example with rogue AI which screws with you, it sounds all awesome on paper, but will it be this way for 100th time you run this bloody island and just get randomly blinded or sapped for the lulz?

An argument can be made that, well, this is like PvP and all, but these Isles are a PvE adventure and such mechanic which are not really threatening but just a delaying and annoying thing are not going to be much fun beyond several first runs.

[Temp name]

As long as it doesn't get introduced to all mobs or bosses going forward, sure.

[Soon-TM]

If the mobs really don't leash we will see horrible stacks of enemies getting dragged around zones. Some people say it is "realism" but I don't see how it is anymore realistic than an enemy who stops chasing after realizing its original goal (defending its habitat) has been achieved. For the most part, monsters aren't thinking "I gotta kill this elf." They think "I gotta keep this elf away from my cubs/food source/area of interest."

I do like the idea of better AI on mobs. Giving enemies a bigger variety of abilities and having them take advantage of basic mechanics sounds like it will make for a more engaging fight.

I don't know why, but I have a feeling that playing a ranged DPS other than a hunter/warlock will become a pita, with each and every single mob los'ing your casts. Melee will have no worries, they just will use one of their 2349872678985 gap closers and slows, and voilà. Poor Ret pallies, though

[Kraddark]

I don't know why, but I have a feeling that playing a ranged DPS other than a hunter/warlock will become a pita, with each and every single mob los'ing your casts. Melee will have no worries, they just will use one of their 2349872678985 gap closers and slows, and voilà. Poor Ret pallies, though

They just need to equip the mobs with abilities that will encourage melee to leave melee range. If it were up to me, I would get rid of a majority of the grindy encounters and try to make all the required fights more significant.