Why is Malfurion still such a tool against Illidan?

[Vladier]

Illidan didn't sacrifice himself. The Titans outright told everyone to leave because they could contain Sargeras all by themselves. Illidan chose to stay, and not out of any necessity, just because he wanted to. He could've returned and made ammends but in his own selfish way he chose to remain at the Seat of the Pantheon and watch over Sargeras to satisfy his own ego. It's not like he even has a chance against him if he escapes the Titans' prison, he is just there to mock him. It's probably going to get old pretty fast and will become pretty awkward for everyone there once he runs out of things to say to him.

[GreenJesus]

Illidan did evil things. He helped us in the end but whether or not his "sacrifices" were necessary will never be known. In Legion, the Naaru who did nothing but sing Illidan's praises was vaporized BY Illidan in what is probably the most hypocritical move ever committed in a cinematic (Sacrifices must be made! What? My destiny? No deal! DIE).

He was fine sacrificing the lives of other elves but has no interest in surrendering his "destiny."

Malfurion knows him better than Velen.

Xera was just going to drag us all into another war and use us all as slaves once Sargeras was done. It's a good thing Illidan killed her. She would have corrupted the entire planet with yellow.

[Wildmoon]

There's nothing wrong with Malfurion's response... Except you are Illidan's fanboy and expect Malfurion to glorify Illidan. In fact, he reacted realistically for the relationship they had at that point. He already made peace with Illidan. He could not forgive Illidan for many people he has wronged.

Also, the context is that he was in hurry to go to take a look at the issue about Azeroth. You, the player, are not someone he would waste time talking about his own familial issues with.

- - - Updated - - -

Xavius may have been the one doing Ysera's corruption and therefor starting her downfall but Malfurion started the whole chain of event when he rushed of in blind anger after Cenarius's corruption.

You'd think he'd be wiser by now, having almost wiped out any entire night elf army out of grief when Tyrande was captured in the War of the Ancients.

Also, his one-minded care for Tyrande over Kalimdor and his people is just weak.

So yes, Illidan may have been the more villanous of the two but in the end he's always come out more stronger in person and spirit.

What? Illidan was by far the weaker in spirit than Malfurion. He needed his brother to slap him out of being seduced by the ol gods. He also got mind fuked by Xavius. In fact, the reason Tyrande was attracted to Malfurion instead of Illidan was precisely because Illidan had weak will. He thought that raw power would prove his superiority.

People in this thread are downright unrealistic when trying to underatnd the relationship between them. Even Tyrande's response is warranted when you take into context all Illidan did how damaging it is to his reputation. Just consider how much trust people in the real world would put into someone with similar track record. Trust is very easily broken but very hard to earn.

Don't tunnel vision and look at everything from Illidan's point of view. A lot of people in this forum really do have soft spot for edgy characters.

[Rathbourne]

MALFURION'S REACTION WAS PERFECT. ILLIDAN IS NOT A GOOD GUY.He is a world class A-hole through and through. The only reason he isnt killed on sight is the fact that he fights the legion.Otherwise his destiny is to be a loot pinjana. Even for all his importance in the end it was Velen and the Draenei who were truly responsible for bringing down the Argus regime and the Titans for imprisoning Sargeras. Illidan was literally just there to look cool and drop edgy 1 liners. Considering how many people he betrayed,killed and enslaved in his tyrannical reign and in the end it was others who did the heavy lifting.His only good deed was destroying Nathreza and Malfurion's done way more good for Azeroth than him.

Enough with this Illidan D sucking.Dont fall for Xera's cringey excuses for her chosen one.

[Goldielocks]

I didn't think Malfurion's reaction was that bad. Tyrande's was the one that sucked ass.

Even for all his importance in the end it was Velen and the Draenei who were truly responsible for bringing down the Argus regime and the Titans for imprisoning Sargeras. Illidan was literally just there to look cool and drop edgy 1 liners.

Wrong. Illidan's retrieval and use of the Sargerite Keystone is what led to us going to Argus. The final patch wouldn't have happened without it. As an added bonus, he saved Khadgar and Velen from dying due to Kil'jaden's exploding body (not to mention he saved the entire raid of players too). Khadgar wouldn't have been able to teleport everyone to Azeroth without a path being created.

I'm saying this as fact, not some fanboy statement.

[Schattenlied]

That's just stupid, totally non-sense theory

It's really not, it fits his personality... Thats why the fucker should have been kept dead.

[Magnagarde]

There's nothing wrong with Malfurion's response. He acknowledged they quarreled and had their differences, but also that they fought together and that he has some lingering regret. Frankly, that's generous.

Illidan is a douchebag. Self-important, power hungry, willing to do terrible things to serve his own ends or save his own ass. Even his goodbye messages are masturbatory. I'm glad Tyrande called his sincerity into question. His characterisation through Legion has been nauseous, with far too many characters acting like members of his personal cult. More people should be calling him on his bullshit.

I agree with everything you wrote. Furthermore, the idea that Illidan is the savior of all is something pushed through Xe'ra. There is absolutely no reason for major characters such as Malfurion or Tyrande to be starstruck by Illidan, especially considering they've been on the right side of history numerous times, including occasions when he wasn't.

[Schattenlied]

Wrong. Illidan's retrieval and use of the Sargerite Keystone is what led to us going to Argus.

could have been done without him, the player character DH would have had it on them if it wasn't given back to Illidan. But, even if the keystone wasn't present at all:

The final patch wouldn't have happened without it.

Yes it would have, just differently. See below.

As an added bonus, he saved Khadgar and Velen from dying due to Kil'jaden's exploding body (not to mention he saved the entire raid of players too). Khadgar wouldn't have been able to teleport everyone to Azeroth without a path being created.

Khadgar would have just teleported everyone to Argus, where we would have been fine because the player characters are OP as hell mary sues. We would have then met up with the army of the light, and eventually killed Argus, and then the Titans teleport us back to Azeroth or something.


Illidan was not necessary, all he did was drop one liners and hypocritically murder a Naaru who was supposed to be our ally. Fucker "forces the hand of fate" for the entire god damn world by opening the portal between Argus and Azeroth, then gets pissy when someone tries to "force the hand of fate" in a way he doesn't like... He's a fucking hypocrite, there is nothing I hate more than a god damned hypocrite.

[Rathbourne]

Wrong. Illidan's retrieval and use of the Sargerite Keystone is what led to us going to Argus. The final patch wouldn't have happened without it. As an added bonus, he saved Khadgar and Velen from dying due to Kil'jaden's exploding body (not to mention he saved the entire raid of players too). Khadgar wouldn't have been able to teleport everyone to Azeroth without a path being created.

I'm saying this as fact, not some fanboy statement.

But Velen and the Draenei were planning the siege of Argus long before Illidan was even resurrected.Back in the Exodar scenario with Rakeesh.They would have sieged Argus regardless of Illidan's involvement,considering how pissed Velen was and the Vindicar was already constructed for the journey.Illidan just helped it on with the keystone.

[Goldielocks]

could have been done without him, the player character DH would have had it on them if it wasn't given back to Illidan. But, even if the keystone wasn't present at all:


Yes it would have, just differently. See below.


Khadgar would have just teleported everyone to Argus, where we would have been fine because the player characters are OP as hell mary sues. We would have then met up with the army of the light, and eventually killed Argus, and then the Titans teleport us back to Azeroth or something.


Illidan was not necessary, all he did was drop one liners and hypocritically murder a Naaru who was supposed to be our ally. Fucker "forces the hand of fate" for the entire god damn world by opening the portal between Argus and Azeroth, then gets pissy when someone tries to "force the hand of fate" in a way he doesn't like... He's a fucking hypocrite, there is nothing I hate more than a god damned hypocrite.

1) Nah, Illidan created the portal to Marduum. Even if the player DH never returned the keystone to him, Illidan is still responsible for it falling into our hands one way or another.

2) No. The patch wouldn’t have happened. How long would it have taken for the Vindicaar to travel to Argus from Azeroth? Too long. Velen may have been willing to go because of Rakeesh, but that’s his personal problem. Not the other heroes of Azeroth.

3) Also no. If Khadgar really had been able to teleport then all down to Argus, he wouldn’t have said “at least we would have died fighting.” Mage teleporting doesn’t work like how you’re describing. I’m pretty sure you have to have been there first to teleport or at least taught how to teleport to a certain area.

4) I don’t agree. Illidan was a full on ends justify the means character, but he wanted to remain true to his past. You know, the whole sacrifices thing. It was also supposed to paint the light as something not as good as we all thought. He wasn’t useless, especially for the latter part.

But Velen and the Draenei were planning the siege of Argus long before Illidan was even resurrected.Back in the Exodar scenario with Rakeesh.They would have sieged Argus regardless of Illidan's involvement,considering how pissed Velen was and the Vindicar was already constructed for the journey.Illidan just helped it on with the keystone.

That doesn’t necessarily mean the heroes of Azeroth would follow. Illidan forced Azeroth’s hand by putting Argus so close to them. There’s also the fact that Argus is an untold distance from Azeroth. Why doesn’t Kil’jaden send Demons the long way? Because it’s stupid. That’s why. Velen has no choice but to do this. Taking Azeroth’s heroes would be contrived.

[Schattenlied]

1) Nah, Illidan created the portal to Marduum. Even if the player DH never returned the keystone to him, Illidan is still responsible for it falling into our hands one way or another.

And the timeline for that was before his death at the Black Temple, He did not need to come back.

2) No. The patch wouldn’t have happened. How long would it have taken for the Vindicaar to travel to Argus from Azeroth? Too long. Velen may have been willing to go because of Rakeesh, but that’s his personal problem. Not the other heroes of Azeroth.

Kil'Jeaden's ship uses the same technology as the Vindicaar, it's all Eredar/Draenei design, and Kil'Jeaden used that ship to get from Azeroth to Argus in about 10 minutes... so... 10 minutes?

3) Also no. If Khadgar really had been able to teleport then all down to Argus, he wouldn’t have said “at least we would have died fighting.” Mage teleporting doesn’t work like how you’re describing. I’m pretty sure you have to have been there first to teleport or at least taught how to teleport to a certain area.

For the player character, yes, for Dadgar, no, even the place he teleported us to from KJ's ship was not a place he was ever shown to have been before. He had line of sight to the surface of Argus, line of sight mass teleporting is not unheard of in Warcraft.

4) I don’t agree. Illidan was a full on ends justify the means character, but he wanted to remain true to his past. You know, the whole sacrifices thing.

Ok, he was still unnecessary, still should have stayed dead.

It was also supposed to paint the light as something not as good as we all thought. He wasn’t useless, especially for the latter part.

He's a hypocrite. "Ends justify the means", same shit X'era was doing, why is it ok for him to do it and not her? By his own logic we should have all shanked him when he opened the portal to Argus and put the entire planet under immediate threat without any forewarning or preparation. He's a fucking hypocrite who should have stayed in his grave.

We did not need him to teach that lesson, the Scarlet Crusade has been teaching exactly that lesson for 13 years now. He was not necessary.

One liners and hypocrisy, that is all he has done since he came back.

[Zulkhan]

He's a hypocrite. "Ends justify the means", same shit X'era was doing, why is it ok for him to do it and not her?

Because she planned to do that by forcing her will on Illidan even though the guy bore no faith nor trust in the Light and related beings. What he said to Turalyon a few seconds later proves how unconvinced and skeptical Illidan was regarding the idea that a "Chosen One" was going to save the universe.

Illidan is a massively self-centered and amoral douche but he's not an hypocrite. Distrusting the Naaru was within his rights, which appears rather justified after we learned that both Light and Void are half-blind.

[Schattenlied]

Illidan is a massively self-centered and amoral douche but he's not an hypocrite.

"Sometimes the hand of fate must be forced".

His fucking words, as he opens a massive portal between Argus and Azeroth, and put the entire planet under immediate threat without any forewarning or preparation. He's a fucking hypocrite.

So, again, why is it ok for him to force the hand of fate for an entire planet, but as soon as someone else does it to him, he gets to kill them? By his own logic we should have all shanked him when he opened the portal. He's a hypocrite, no way around it. Piece of shit should have stayed in his grave, and if I wasn't forced by Blizzard to conform to their bad writing, I would have helped Turalyon put him back in it.

[Shrouded]

I think the main issue is that Blizzard loves to throw huge numbers into the story without giving them a second thought. Ten thousand years is an absurdly long amount of time, no matter how long-lived a species is, yet Malfurion, Tyrande and Illidan seem to treat it as if it was a year or two ago at the most. Same thing with Turalyon and Alleria - they've been away from Azeroth for a ridiculous amount of time, but act as if they've been on an extended vacation.

[SNES-1990]

Makes me happy to see their tree burn to a crisp in BFA, and I say that as a mainly Alliance player.

[Goldielocks]

And the timeline for that was before his death at the Black Temple, He did not need to come back.

That's more of a personal issue for you lmao

Kil'Jeaden's ship uses the same technology as the Vindicaar, it's all Eredar/Draenei design, and Kil'Jeaden used that ship to get from Azeroth to Argus in about 10 minutes... so... 10 minutes?

You mean the travel time through the Keystone portal? Or the teleporting function in 7.2? It makes more sense that the Tomb of Sargeras portal allowed that to happen. Otherwise, the Legion could have invaded a long time ago many times over already if their ships always had the ability to travel great distances with ease.

For the player character, yes, for Dadgar, no, even the place he teleported us to from KJ's ship was not a place he was ever shown to have been before. He had line of sight to the surface of Argus, line of sight mass teleporting is not unheard of in Warcraft.

That still doesn't explain why Khadgar accepted death if he could have easily saved them all.

He's a hypocrite. "Ends justify the means", same shit X'era was doing, why is it ok for him to do it and not her? By his own logic we should have all shanked him when he opened the portal to Argus and put the entire planet under immediate threat without any forewarning or preparation. He's a fucking hypocrite who should have stayed in his grave.

We did not need him to teach that lesson, the Scarlet Crusade has been teaching exactly that lesson for 13 years now. He was not necessary.

One liners and hypocrisy, that is all he has done since he came back.

I'm not sure why this isn't obvious. Illidan isn't turning that brooding against Azeroth. According to the retcon, Illidan was simply defending himself on the BT. Xera however, it became clear that she was manipulating us for some nefarious purpose outside of protecting Azeroth. Illidan was front and center about what he wanted, as are all the Illidari. We side with Illidan because his interests align with ours.

You're calling an imperfect character a hypocrite. Many of Azeroth's heroes aren't morally perfect. Aside from your hate boner for him, it's a meaningless gesture.

[Zulkhan]

"Sometimes the hand of fate must be forced".

His fucking words, as he opens a massive portal between Argus and Azeroth, and put the entire planet under immediate threat without any forewarning or preparation. He's a fucking hypocrite.

Illidan and Xe'ra sharing the same mentality does not imply they share the same beliefs or methods. Xe'ra wanted to impose her own on Illidan and Illidan had the power to deny that imposition. Exercising free will do not really make someone an hypocrite.

[Niroshi]

What did you guys want to see as their responses? After all the flak Blizzard gets for inconsistency in their writing you guys trash things like this that are an example of consistent character writing. At this point Illidan is starting to seem like everyone's self insert character that they wanted to get the girl, the respect of everyone and win the day.

Like if Malfurion pulled a Vegeta and had a little monologue about how Illidan was better than him, and Tyrande collapsed crying about how she should've chosen Illidan would you have been happy?

[Schattenlied]

That's more of a personal issue for you lmao

You said his coming back was necessary, if we already had the keystone while he was dead, he wasn't necessary.

You mean the travel time through the Keystone portal?

The keystone portal wasn't open yet, that portal didn't get opened until after they were already at argus.

Or the teleporting function in 7.2?

No.

It makes more sense that the Tomb of Sargeras portal allowed that to happen. Otherwise, the Legion could have invaded a long time ago many times over already if their ships always had the ability to travel great distances with ease.

And guess what the Vindicaar would have been able to do... Use the ToS portal.

That still doesn't explain why Khadgar accepted death if he could have easily saved them all.

Bad writing, LoS teleporting happens in Warcraft, it is canon, Blizzard either forgot, or just wanted to make Illidan look like the hero he most definitely isn't.

I'm not sure why this isn't obvious. Illidan isn't turning that brooding against Azeroth.

It is obvious, doesn't mean he's not a fucking hypocrite.

According to the retcon, Illidan was simply defending himself on the BT.

Yes, after enslaving a bunch of people on outland... He's totally a good guy, guys!

Xera however, it became clear that she was manipulating us for some nefarious purpose outside of protecting Azeroth.

Yes... She wanted us to help her fight the Void... Which we are going to be doing anyways...

Illidan was front and center about what he wanted, as are all the Illidari. We side with Illidan because his interests align with ours.

So was X'era, and so did X'era's interests.

You're calling an imperfect character a hypocrite. Many of Azeroth's heroes aren't morally perfect. Aside from your hate boner for him, it's a meaningless gesture.

No, I'm calling a hypocrite a hypocrite. I don't care if people are imperfect, I care if they do one thing (forcing the hand of fate), and it's fine, and then get pissy as soon as someone else does the exact same thing. That is, by definition, being a hypocrite.

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Illidan and Xe'ra sharing the same mentality does not imply they share the same beliefs or methods. Xe'ra wanted to impose her own on Illidan and Illidan had the power to deny that imposition. Exercising free will do not really make someone an hypocrite.

You mean exactly what Illidan did to us when he opened the portal and put the entire planet under immediate threat without any forewarning or preparation? It's ok for him to do it, but as soon as someone else tries to do it to him, suddenly it's bad, that is the definition of being a HYPOCRITE.

You are wrong, there is no way around it, he is a hypocrite... Having the power to deny an imposition doesn't make him any less of a hypocrite, he forced the hand of fate, it's fine when he does it, but when someone else tries to "force the hand of fate", suddenly they are in need of killing. It's "do as I say, not as I do", that is by definition hypocrisy. By his own logic, we should have killed him in 7.2.5, and I would have if Blizzard's one dimensional writing didn't prevent us from doing so.

[Alvito]

Illidan is a mass murderer, kills his own people, does whatever he thinks is right regardless of what it destroys and he tried repeatedly to steal his wife. All of these characters suck though, Illidan, Malfurion and Tyrande are all garbage characters that act like the care about things far more than they do. They are all wrapped up in themselves and each other.