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  1. #1
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    Shadow is the worst spec I have ever played

    I know with a title like this you're probably rolling your eyes but I'll try keep it constructive.

    Now I've been playing since late Vanilla and I've transitioned to a different spec and class almost every single expansion and I've been around and heard and seen most of every major change. From SM/SM Warlocks to dual weild unholy DK tanks to StM in emerald nightmare, I've seen a lot of shit in this game.

    And in my years and years playing this game I have never seen a worse spec in this game than Shadow right now. It's not that the abilities are bad or are badly designed or that the class is clunky, it actually all works together smoothly and gels pretty well. The problem I find with Shadow is that it is literally nothing but a one trick pony. This spec does absolutely nothing "alright" to "great" except DPS in a prolonged raiding environment.

    So in a raiding environment, you start off hitting like a wet noodle until you finally start gaining void form and lingering stacks after everyone's all popped their burst. THEN you can begin to start doing average damage. That's kind of where all of this class' problems root from. The idea that it has to ramp up slowly before it begins to really pile on the damage. Which in theory is perfectly fine, it's a unique playstyle and something very different from the rest of the classes. The problem however is that in practice and reality, this bleeds out across the rest of the game creating a balancing nightmare for blizzard. If they give us burst or faster damage, that makes shadow's ramp up overpowered. When you have a balancing nightmare such as this, it makes it impossible to be good at anything in the game except what your spec is pigeon holed into, a medium to long fight raiding spec.

    This class has almost no AoE, no burst whatsoever unless you setup for it 2 weeks in advance. Its strength, which I assume Blizzard would have us believe is prolonged cleave fights, isn't surpassed by other specs. Its utility is reduced to a heal which is seen as a nice bump and not a serious major raid cooldown. Dispersion is cute for soaking but many other specs are capable of soaking just as well.

    Because of the reasons above, shadows mythic capabilities are severely crippled because of the severely high ramp up time. While the spec is much stronger at higher keys, it's no better than other top tier specs. It doesn't bring anything different or unique to the dungeon that anyone would ever think to themselves yeah I'd really like a shadow priest here. Forget lower mythics or doing your daily heroic as shadow, you'll get about 3 ticks of swp before a mob dies.

    Solo content is good but there is a severe lack of quality of life because of the ramp up problem. Our main iconic spell, void form, is useless for questing and moving around locations, there is no movement ability, no mini tank pet, no get out of jail free card, nothing super unique to shadow that other classes can't just do better. It's crazy how much survivability warlocks have in PvP as a caster with 0 movement yet priests are expected to be able to function there too while having the movement of a warlock but the survivability of a mage. Some kind of ethereal blink or void cross over that makes you go invis/stealth for a short while (which we had) would be great.

    I legitimately think that the best thing that could ever happen to this spec would be to make it its own unique class or create a 2nd shadow spec. A direct damaging spec and a dot spec. Because the way the talents are designed now is that it forces you into this ramp up style of play which I think is well designed in theory but in practice results in poor quality of life, average damage at its best and completely useless everywhere else. I know they're trying to curb the ramp up in BfA but the focus on any ramp up at all results in this happening across the game.

    Anyway, it's late, sorry if it seems a bit jumbled and messy but I adore this spec so much, I think it is leaps and bounds ahead of any other spec in the game for its lore, its richness, its complexity, its aesthetic. And it's just SO let down by very basic things like no movement and being a one trick pony which if you take anything away from this, it's that.

    By being so focused and built around ramp up damage, it creates a balancing nightmare wherein the class becomes garbage in every other aspect of the game that isn't a medium-long raiding encounter.

  2. #2
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    I enjoyed shadow during Warlords with its choices between doing decent(ish) single-target damage or going the traditional route of dot damage over multiple targets.

    I dislike Shadow a lot in Legion. I think they messed up the class fantasy, especially for those who have had their shadow priests for a while and the spec itself suffered from a design that sounded to them like a good and unique idea at the time but was quite messed up. And shadow has been paying for that decision all expansion.

    I know there are those who like shadow as it is but I'm not a fan.

    To be fair though, even in Wrath, one of the issues with shadow was ramp-up time. It's gotten better or worse over the years but ramp-up has always lurked in the background of the spec as an issue.
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  3. #3
    In my experience, shadow might be the worst spec to level in the game, and it kind of relates to your issue with it. Just too much ramp up time for leveling, and void form itself isn't that great for leveling because you will have it up for like 10 seconds to kill a couple mobs and then it's over. Void eruption having a cast time doesn't make matters any better. It's sad that the two healing specs (ok, disc is kind of a hybrid) are far better than the classes' dps spec for leveling, since disc has consistent direct damage spells while holy actually has strong aoe for leveling.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    In my experience, shadow might be the worst spec to level in the game, and it kind of relates to your issue with it. Just too much ramp up time for leveling, and void form itself isn't that great for leveling because you will have it up for like 10 seconds to kill a couple mobs and then it's over. Void eruption having a cast time doesn't make matters any better. It's sad that the two healing specs (ok, disc is kind of a hybrid) are far better than the classes' dps spec for leveling, since disc has consistent direct damage spells while holy actually has strong aoe for leveling.
    i sure hope rogue gets some nice changes along with your shadow priest. rogue ramp up time is really bad too that how i see it.

  5. #5
    I've main'd a Priest since TBC, Shadow since Cata, and I honestly hate the iteration of it in Legion meself.
    Last edited by Daedius; 2018-03-03 at 06:07 AM.

  6. #6
    I loved Shadow during BRF back in WoD, idk why they moved away from that.

  7. #7

  8. #8
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    Completely agree about the whole ramp-up part. Even if people argument that there should be differences and niches between classes/specs, there's just no fun in needing a minute to build up your damage, when pretty much everyone else can just slam theirs out on the first global.
    Yes they might be balanced in raids, but what about mythic+? Not everyone are doing 18+ where they might be ok. Doing ordinary dungeons, leveling, soloing or lower key mythics is a joke.

  9. #9
    The biggest issue of Shadow in Legion is they shipped it on launch with super OP S2M, you were weak all around but had that one I WIN button if you didn't screw up or lag out. Unfortunately when top guilds exploited what they do best - stack one trick ponys in an environment where that trick is exactly the answer - Blizzard realized how OP it was, nerfed it to the ground, but didn't have much idea what else shadow can really be. In the end, it landed as an all-inferior version of aff lock. Where are spriests good at? In the same place whre aff locks are. Multi-dot council fights. But aff locks have much fewer weaknesses and drawbacks. And spriests have zero advantage except mass dispel. But I guess you can just get a healer priest to do that job.

    I really liked COP priest in HFC, shame that playstyle is gone.

    My guild had a spriest quit over the fact his class is good on 2-3 fights in the whole raid, average or bad on the rest, and atrocious outside of raids like in mythic+. And tbh, I'm not really surprised. Aff lock or even boomkin are just better all around options with the same multi-dot focus.

    Kinda same story as survival hunter, unless you really wanna play melee with a pet (and unholy isn't appealing to you), feral or rogue is just a better option.

    That's the Blizzard's problem with "class fantasy" and "spec identity", trying to "de-homogenize" at any cost it creates 1-trick-pony specs or specs that are simply master of none.

    It doesn't affect only dps, trying to re-design mistweaver monks and implement vengeance demon hunters shows how easily they can run out of design space. Both specs had problem finding their niche in raiding because they didn't offer anything unique enough. Atm MW is mostly a pvp spec and Veng is a m+ tank which is still not as popular as dk.

    Unfortunately when a warlock or hunter has a screwed up spec, they can just pick a different dps spec, while priest doesn't have that option at all.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Thieves cant View Post
    i sure hope rogue gets some nice changes along with your shadow priest. rogue ramp up time is really bad too that how i see it.
    Eh, even for leveling, spriest ramp up time is way worse than a rogue. Rogues at least have direct damage abilities that don't have a cd, and most things while leveling die quickly after stealth anyway. Spriest has a lack of direct damage abilities, and the ones they do have are on a cd. Though to be fair I think melee specs in general have an edge over ranged for leveling anyway, sans hunters.

    I main rogue btw, I was just trying to level a spriest as a void elf because I thought they would look cool. Was too painful after a while and now I'm leveling a mage...

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Valette's Avatar
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    You are right that shadow isnt a very "strong" spec. But to me, its the best spec in the game. Not because it performs the best in terms of numbers, but because its the one I have the most fun playing. While our numbers might not always reflect it, the gameplay makes me feel very powerful. Theres nothing quite like dotting up several mobs and hitting 40+ voidstacks, seeing ghosts fly everywhere and the feeling when you break the 150% haste barrier which changes your rotation.

    Sure. we might not be the strongest at anything, but thats more a tuning problem than a gameplay one. And if its the case that our gameplay makes balancing us too difficult, I'd rather remain mediocre but keeping our fast paced gameplay, than having good numbers but falling asleep behind the wheel. Sadly for me, bfa seems to be pushing us towards being a snoozefest.

  12. #12
    Well im sorry for you. I think its awesome.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valette View Post
    You are right that shadow isnt a very "strong" spec. But to me, its the best spec in the game. Not because it performs the best in terms of numbers, but because its the one I have the most fun playing. While our numbers might not always reflect it, the gameplay makes me feel very powerful. Theres nothing quite like dotting up several mobs and hitting 40+ voidstacks, seeing ghosts fly everywhere and the feeling when you break the 150% haste barrier which changes your rotation.

    Sure. we might not be the strongest at anything, but thats more a tuning problem than a gameplay one. And if its the case that our gameplay makes balancing us too difficult, I'd rather remain mediocre but keeping our fast paced gameplay, than having good numbers but falling asleep behind the wheel. Sadly for me, bfa seems to be pushing us towards being a snoozefest.
    i dont actually think you really took my post seriously. read the bolded part again.

    It's not a tuning issue. it is nothing to do with tuning. by the gameplay very nature and design, they HAVE to undertune shadow otherwise it becomes far too overpowered like in the scenarios you mentioned and we end up with an emerald nightmare situation.

    The spec can't be correctly balanced if the playstyle remains the same otherwise it so forever remain pigeon holed into a raid encounter spec only.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire Valette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illiphar View Post
    i dont actually think you really took my post seriously. read the bolded part again.

    It's not a tuning issue. it is nothing to do with tuning. by the gameplay very nature and design, they HAVE to undertune shadow otherwise it becomes far too overpowered like in the scenarios you mentioned and we end up with an emerald nightmare situation.

    The spec can't be correctly balanced if the playstyle remains the same otherwise it so forever remain pigeon holed into a raid encounter spec only.
    Which is precisely why I wrote the "If its the case that our gameplay makes balancing us too difficult" part, where I agree that if this is the case I'd rather be undertuned while keeping the fun playstyle.

  15. #15
    I've played shadow since i've started at the end of BC, and it's in the worst state i've ever seen it in. Haven't played priest most of legion because of this until i tried out holy, which i'm loving thoroughly.

    I'd like to see an older version of shadow make a return though for sure.

  16. #16
    Shadow is what happen when different devs team doesnt talk to each other during the development of a game, like if the person working on the spec is out of touch with the rest of the game, you have one spec that is designed to have a long ramp up to do what other specs normally do without the same level of commitment and preparation that shadow need (the whole 1 min cycle) and without the massive punishment for failing, its worse when you have specs that had similar issue in the past got changes (affliction warlocks during NH and feral druids during tomb) then you have the other team designing boss fight and content that doesnt support these kind of playstile.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clrg View Post
    Shadow is what happen when different devs team doesnt talk to each other during the development of a game, like if the person working on the spec is out of touch with the rest of the game, you have one spec that is designed to have a long ramp up to do what other specs normally do without the same level of commitment and preparation that shadow need (the whole 1 min cycle) and without the massive punishment for failing, its worse when you have specs that had similar issue in the past got changes (affliction warlocks during NH and feral druids during tomb) then you have the other team designing boss fight and content that doesnt support these kind of playstile.
    Raid encounters requiring short and sudden bursts? Rip shadow.

  18. #18
    Think the only worse thing they could do is making it a melee spec, but they wouldn’t ever make a range spec into melee that would ruin it completely...

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Nurvus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilyaki View Post
    Think the only worse thing they could do is making it a melee spec, but they wouldn’t ever make a range spec into melee that would ruin it completely...
    Don't be so negative - Shadow still has potential as a Ranged Spec.
    Blizzard would only change a spec from Ranged to Melee if said spec had absolutely no hope of survival as Ranged.
    Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
    Why did you necro a thread?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Illiphar View Post
    Its strength, which I assume Blizzard would have us believe is prolonged cleave fights, isn't surpassed by other specs.
    It's clearly our strength, the problem is that Blizzard simply forgot to implement any raid boss with this kind of setup.
    That's why we start being great in Fortified 18+ dungeons. Any other content we suck.

    But honestly, don't we all love switching to Holy to be able to DPS on Eonar Normal/Heroic ?

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