More good news for Dems - 58% want to elect Congress who will "stand up to Trump"

[Deleted]

We would have to elect a congress with spines.

Not corporate shills like most democratic politicians.

Oh God the irony.

[mvaliz]

You're joking right? LOL

They're doing all they can to stand up to him. It's just that "all they can" isn't much of anything because they currently don't control either house of Congress. You really think this won't change once they have the house and / or the senate?

They're going to do the same to Trump that Republicans did to Obama when they took the house in 2010 - block everything he tries to do.

You have to ignore Sky High. He watches/listens to hack-rags like “Secular Talk” who’s sole goal is to convince people that every party but the “little guy” is corrupt. Gives them a sense of superiority and individuality that really doesn’t exist. Trust me, if/when Bernie Sanders or people like him gets any political power - those rags (and subsequently Sky High) will begin calling them corrupt in under 2 months.

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And after Trump then what?

Well, start by fixing all the shit Dumbass Dump did, for a start. That alone is going to take several years at this point...especially when the corps begin their smear campaigns to stop the reversings.

[Thekri]

I don't know why people think "were against Trump" is an ineffective strategy when...

1. It's been pretty fucking effective in about 40 state level special elections where Democrats won in traditionally red districts

2. "Were against Obama!" Was a super effective strategy for republicans in the 2010 and 2014 midterms.

It is definitely a good strategy for getting votes. It isn't much of a strategy for running the government. You bring what it did to Republicans up as an example, but that is exactly what we are afraid of. Republicans won everything on a "Against Obama" platform, then immediately lost control of the government to an immoral maverick that managed to coopt the entire party and mangle every American institution he touched.

"We hate Trump" is a necessary starting point, it is a good thing, and it will win them the coming election cycles, but they really need to start thinking about what they are going to do with it when they get power. Because right now nobody really knows.

[Wvvtayy]

It is definitely a good strategy for getting votes. It isn't much of a strategy for running the government. You bring what it did to Republicans up as an example, but that is exactly what we are afraid of. Republicans won everything on a "Against Obama" platform, then immediately lost control of the government to an immoral maverick that managed to coopt the entire party and mangle every American institution he touched.

"We hate Trump" is a necessary starting point, it is a good thing, and it will win them the coming election cycles, but they really need to start thinking about what they are going to do with it when they get power. Because right now nobody really knows.

Even if the Democrats literally do absolutely nothing at all it'll still be better than the havoc Republicans are wreaking. There's absolutely no way democratic control would be worse because right now we're at rock bottom and there's no where to go but up.

But yeah. Being against Trump is all they need right now because that'll win the midterm. Once Democrats have control there's still two more years where their platform won't matter because Trump won't sign anything Democrats put forward. That's two long years where all they have to do is block Trump and think about what they're going to do once Trump is gone. But for now and until November they need to focus their energy on winning the midterm, and the way to do that is be outspoken about the president.

[beanman12345]

People just need to vote, which many don't do, despite not liking people who represent them.

[Thekri]

Even if the Democrats literally do absolutely nothing at all it'll still be better than the havoc Republicans are wreaking. There's absolutely no way democratic control would be worse because right now we're at rock bottom and there's no where to go but up.

But yeah. Being against Trump is all they need right now because that'll win the midterm. Once Democrats have control there's still two more years where their platform won't matter because Trump won't sign anything Democrats put forward. That's two long years where all they have to do is block Trump and think about what they're going to do once Trump is gone. But for now and until November they need to focus their energy on winning the midterm, and the way to do that is be outspoken about the president.

Well yeah, I generally agree that they couldn't do much worse, which is why I will be voting democrat, even though I really don't care for their platform. My point is that we shouldn't set the bar that low on purpose. The bar is that low currently, so we deal with what we have, but we really should be trying to push them toward getting better then that.

[Sky High]

it makes absolutely no sense for them to not at the very least use populist rhetoric to get most people on their side, no wait it does actually given how in the pocket they are even compared to Trump. they know it, we all know it, and their response to most of Trumps actions is to do the bare fucking minimum and not change things too much. heaven forbid some of us find that unacceptable.

[Milchshake]

that's if you assume the Dems will do any sort of "standing" against Trump, which I see no evidence of that doesn't involve harping on about Russia.

So getting a win for CHIP doesnt count?

Sorry to see BernieBros don't care about health insurance for children. No wonder people think you're all nihilists more interested in shitting on Hillary than policy goals.

[Dr Assbandit]

Dems need to reevaluate their message and they also need to stop ignoring middle class white families in their bid for votes because them feeling they don't have a voice is what drove them to Trump in the first place. While Trump has barely done anything to improve their position either on the campaign trail he played to their fears of losing jobs due to industrial outsourcing and shutting down of local factories/mining.

Trump's biggest strength is his ability to bullshit his way out of a mess and to make these people believe he is helping them when he has done anything but. It's why he still holds rallies so frequently. Top it off with conservative media that are trying hard to mitigate every dumb thing he does and trying hard to put up smoke and mirrors by still bringing up Obama and Hillary and you have a large voting block that is being consistently misled while shifting the blame towards liberals.

Also this generalizing of all Trump voters as "deplorable" is one of the stupidest and self-defeating tactics I have ever seen. He might have a significant amount of voters that might fit that bill but he also had many who voted for him out of unsurity and uncertainty about their future and jobs. Ignoring some of the conservative posters on here I have had many patients who voted for Trump for numerous reasons and they aren't all what you might expect a caricature of what a Trump supporter looks like.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Dems need to reevaluate their message and they also need to stop ignoring middle class white families in their bid for votes because them feeling they don't have a voice is what drove them to Trump in the first place.

A big amount of the middle class did vote for Hillary. Trump won off of the rust belt working class who USED to be middle class who lost their job to automation and outsourcing. When these people believe they lost their job to immigrants, should Dems just say "WELL WE'RE GONNA GET RID OF THEM IMMIGRANTS FOR YA!"?

Cause guess what, Hillary told those families who had lost their good middle wage jobs that she was going to get government programs to pay for coal miners and factory workers to get retrained. Because mining and manufacturing just aren't coming back to the rust belt. Period. And yes, I know, these people will NEVER believe someone who tells them those jobs aren't coming back. They're going to believe the guy who sells them comforting lies instead of the Democrat who tells them that those jobs aren't coming back, and that they need to get retrained.

So... the democrats need to start peddling comforting lies to get the rust belt former middle classers on board? I dunno. *Shrug*

[Dome Fossil]

I don't actually believe in the blue wave. We'll get so close, then Russian Propaganda will spike up again and fool more Deplorables using goofy Facebook memes, and the GOP will remain our elected officials right up until America is annexed by Russia.

You can all laugh at that idea now. But how many of you were laughing when Drumpf first announced he'd run for President?

And as the Russians are handing out little Russian flags to every former-US citizen to mark them as Property of Putin, the Deplorables will still be grumbling to themselves, "yeah but her emails..."

[Wvvtayy]

I don't actually believe in the blue wave. We'll get so close, then Russian Propaganda will spike up again and fool more Deplorables using goofy Facebook memes, and the GOP will remain our elected officials right up until America is annexed by Russia.

You can all laugh at that idea now. But how many of you were laughing when Drumpf first announced he'd run for President?

And as the Russians are handing out little Russian flags to every former-US citizen to mark them as Property of Putin, the Deplorables will still be grumbling to themselves, "yeah but her emails..."

Again, you completely ignore every election since 2016 where Democrats have done dramatically better than ever before.

The deplorable are going to vote R whether the Russians tell them to or not. The problem in 2010, 2014, and 2016 was low democratic turnout. That's not a problem anymore. Look at AL. Turnout among Democrats there was higher than it was even in 2008, and that pushed Doug Jones to beat Roy Moore in the most Republican state in the country.

" But Roy Moore was a pedophile!"

Okay, then take a look at the VA governor election. Democrats won in a landslide there, and flipped 14 seats in the state house. That's over 3x more than the previous record in 2007 when they flipped 4 seats.

Look at the 40 state level special elections where Democrats flipped deeply Republican seats.

[Lynarii]

Well yeah, I generally agree that they couldn't do much worse, which is why I will be voting democrat, even though I really don't care for their platform. My point is that we shouldn't set the bar that low on purpose. The bar is that low currently, so we deal with what we have, but we really should be trying to push them toward getting better then that.

I agree with this. "We hate Trump" is a rallying cry, not a policy position. Overly relying on this will put the Democrats in the exact same spot the Republicans got put in, where they're finding it almost impossible to lead because they've defined themselves by what they're against. Just look at the mess and time wasted on the repeal ACA votes, something it doesn't even really seem the Republicans were all that enthusiastic about when it came to actually doing it, but they /had/ to try because gosh darn it Obama did it so they had to try and undo it.

The party in opposition is NOT there to stop everything that the party in power wants to do. They're there to make sure that the party in power is working towards America's best interests, not personal ones. And yeah, that has been failing miserably for a while now. And I will vote Democrat on a purely obstructionist platform, regrettably. But I don't actually want them to get in there and spend the whole time saying 'No' to Trump. I want them to say 'No' to the stupid shit that comes out of his mouth, but if something good comes along (like the bump stock ban IMO, though I think the preemptive stripping of rights goes too far) I'd rather they worked with him to make it a reality than to dig in and say no just to avoid ever agreeing with him.

At some point, /someone/ needs to look towards the future and actually try and lead the goddamn country. Because if both sides intend on pushing the divide deeper indefinitely, they might as well start drawing up lines for how the US will split into two.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

So... the democrats need to start peddling comforting lies to get the rust belt former middle classers on board? I dunno. *Shrug*

The problem with this is that those Rust Belters aren't going to come back except under circumstances that much of the Democratic Party will find intolerable. Generally, data has indicated that cultural issues are what drove them, not economic. Those cultural issues are important to the more active parts of the party, and it can quickly skew an election against Democrats. Sanders found this our in the primaries, and Hilldawg found it out in the general. We might get a few back, but we'd have to throw a large segment of the party under the bus to get them back in any significant number.

Honestly, the best plan going forward is to work on independents by running a 50 state strategy and allowing blue dogs to work with and, sometimes, against the party. When you hold enough congressional seats, state houses, and governorships you can afford to strategically lose enough party votes to help them preserve their "independence" to more softly conservative voters.

None of this is easy, but it's necessary for a few cycles at least.

[Sky High]

So getting a win for CHIP doesnt count?

Sorry to see BernieBros don't care about health insurance for children. No wonder people think you're all nihilists more interested in shitting on Hillary than policy goals.

What the fuck are you talking about. Oh wow, one piece of policy they managed to squeak in there and I’m supposed to just throw my hands up saying “good job guys, pack it in, we’re done here”?

I swear if you centrist “liberals” barked at the Dems as much as you do at people who have some idea on how to win with leftist policy you might get more of what you actually want.

[Elegiac]

Let me know when the Democrats start running people willing to do this.

[Omega10]

Which is extremely short sighted and is gonna blow up in their faces.

There is a huge list of actions that I would like to see democrats work on.

From a practical standpoint, nothing that the democrats put together will be passed while Trump or Pence or Ryan is in office.
This is actually kind an ok thing. This gives democrats a chance to prioritize our agenda, and work on passing them one item at a time starting in 2021.
Rushing to get bills created and passed when Trump or Pence or Ryan is just going to veto them anyways becomes a not good strategy.

Putting up a sequence of trial balloons and seeing which ones get the most support - well that accomplishes two goals at once.

It gives democrats HUGE and IMPORTANT reasons for voting - to pass the types of bills that the people like best.
And it allows democrats to put on the back burner bills that don't fare so well, and to prioritize and come up with details for the ones that fare best.

So this could turn out VERY well, and in a way that leads the US back to being relatively prosperous, and not quite so hated as Trump has made us now. Obama was able to undo the damage that Bush did to the country, and create a sustainable and maintainable recovery. The down side is that it was not a very dramatic recovery. The new president in 2021 will be hard pressed to do as well as Obama mainly because Trump is far better at creating chaos and damage than Bush was.

When Obama was elected, democrats did not do a good job of defending him once republicans went on the attack. The real questions are: as democrats put up trial balloon after trial balloon in the 2019-2020 time frame, will democrats go to the mat to defend those that are liked?

And even more importantly, when republicans declare that it is their patriotic duty to oppose the democratic President in 2021, which they did to Clinton and Obama, will democrats also go to the mat to fight this, which we did not do well enough in the past.

[Milchshake]

What the fuck are you talking about. Oh wow, one piece of policy they managed to squeak in there and I’m supposed to just throw my hands up saying “good job guys, pack it in, we’re done here”?

I swear if you centrist “liberals” barked at the Dems as much as you do at people who have some idea on how to win with leftist policy you might get more of what you actually want.

Ohhh Centrist "liberal" I just got bingo!

Though if you're going to start the BernieBro pile on, we just need to schedule it.
Tuesday is tankies, Wednesday can be chapo bros, the reactionaries have me Thursday... Friday through Monday is usually the Trumpers (when their weekly bans are up)

Am I missing any other people that like to use "liberal" as a epithet?

[zorkuus]

Let me know when the Democrats start running people willing to do this.

Oh I'm sure they're willing. It's their methods that suck.

[Sky High]

Ohhh Centrist "liberal" I just got bingo!

Though if you're going to start the BernieBro pile on, we just need to schedule it.
Tuesday is tankies, Wednesday can be chapo bros, the reactionaries have me Thursday... Friday through Monday is usually the Trumpers (when their weekly bans are up)

Am I missing any other people that like to use "liberal" as a epithet?

If only you could see how much my eyes rolled there. I’d add a gif but that counts as spam now, so lucky you I guess.

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Oh I'm sure they're willing. It's their methods that suck.

Their method to pontificate and do nothing, that’s what happens when both political parties aren’t really that different save for a handful of issues.