The Forsaken and their purpose, the presence on Azeroth

[MatthiasLehner]

Seriously, I'm not trying to hate on them.





Maybe I'm missing something because I don't read Warcraft books,
but isn't the Forsaken's ultimate goal is to survive by wiping out the livings eventually(as long as there's no bigger threat like the Legion)?

Therefore, continuously developing the plague?

I'm assuming that.. the undead do not require food, therefore don't really need to 'create' anything, unless it's for their mental pleasure and survival,
they're physically rotting away, hence dangerous to the living creatures by nearing them? (that's like having corpse walking around you with diseases and germs right next to you)



- The Forsaken has been force-raising the dead since Cataclysm, and only a few who didn't lose it about their 2nd life in undeath chose to serve and live on.
But probably I'm biased with an IRL human perspective.

- However, there are undead characters who left the Forsaken because they disagreed with the notion of Sylvanas and the Forsaken,
meaning, there are still some who believe what the Forsaken is doing unethical so even in the world of Warcraft, their mission is considered evil to some,
I guess.


- Which leads to my last bit of question, why does the Horde.. why does Azeroth really need them?



Alliance is heavily light-based faction and the undead are closer to the void/shadow creatures with... well, they are the living dead which threatens the living. Therefore Alliance races' loathe against them is almost instinctive I'd assume.


For the Horde, when they truly needed a powerhouse in the Eastern Kingdoms, it made sense to ally with the "necessary evil."

However, now that they're growing in size with the forces like the Nightborne, the Highmountain, the Zandalari and more,
Are the Horde seriously still in need to be treated as some kind of an evil underdog who needs to grasp every straw to survive?

And.. do the Forsaken create remarkable heroes that save Azeroth or something? (I know there are a few undeads that are important in some class halls and whatnot)



I really don't see why or how the Forsaken is welcomed by any factions or races other than themselves, unless the Forsaken leader is not in charge of a faction.

Am I missing something?

[Dellis0991]

Seriously, I'm not trying to hate on them.





Maybe I'm missing something because I don't read Warcraft books,
but isn't the Forsaken's ultimate goal is to survive by wiping out the livings eventually(as long as there's no bigger threat like the Legion)?

Therefore, continuously developing the plague?

I'm assuming that.. the undead do not require food, therefore don't really need to 'create' anything, unless it's for their mental pleasure and survival,
they're physically rotting away, hence dangerous to the living creatures by nearing them? (that's like having corpse walking around you with diseases and germs right next to you)



- The Forsaken has been force-raising the dead since Cataclysm, and only a few who didn't lose it about their 2nd life in undeath chose to serve and live on.
But probably I'm biased with an IRL human perspective.

- However, there are undead characters who left the Forsaken because they disagreed with the notion of Sylvanas and the Forsaken,
meaning, there are still some who believe what the Forsaken is doing unethical so even in the world of Warcraft, their mission is considered evil to some,
I guess.


- Which leads to my last bit of question, why does the Horde.. why does Azeroth really need them?



Alliance is heavily light-based faction and the undead are closer to the void/shadow creatures with... well, they are the living dead which threatens the living. Therefore Alliance races' loathe against them is almost instinctive I'd assume.


For the Horde, when they truly needed a powerhouse in the Eastern Kingdoms, it made sense to ally with the "necessary evil."

However, now that they're growing in size with the forces like the Nightborne, the Highmountain, the Zandalari and more,
Are the Horde seriously still in need to be treated as some kind of an evil underdog who needs to grasp every straw to survive?

And.. do the Forsaken create remarkable heroes that save Azeroth or something? (I know there are a few undeads that are important in some class halls and whatnot)



I really don't see why or how the Forsaken is welcomed by any factions or races other than themselves, unless the Forsaken leader is not in charge of a faction.

Am I missing something?

Belmont is kind of likable and that one fella that shove you out of that exploding mine shaft would have been a cool guy if he survived. The rest are either homicidal or just have gray area morals. I guess Azeroth needs them because there are some that still believe in life and protecting despite them not being able to do so normally?

[Verdugo]

Azeroth doesnt need them. Fortunately, thats not the only criteria for something existing.

[Selastan]

The goal of the more noble Forsaken is finding the cure to Undeath. Most have abandoned that goal, but I'm sure there are quite a few still working on it.

[omeomorfismo]

no, their goal is to survive.
killing the zealots that attack them. Unfortunately humans apparently cant stop to do this...

i mean, belves and their light can bear them, why human not?

[Zulkhan]

but isn't the Forsaken's ultimate goal is to survive by wiping out the livings eventually

They have no need whatsoever to wipe out anything to survive as long the living don't mess with them (and if it's the Forsaken messing with the living it would happen for some kind of motive, not "fking living we hate dem gonna kill dem all lulz".

Therefore, continuously developing the plague?

The Forsaken are not the Scourge and the Blight is not the Plague of Undeath. The Scourge's entire goal was to spread like a virus, the Forsaken merely focus on replenish their losses by raising fallen enemies or possibly increasing their numbers through graveyards, since they can't procreate.

I'm assuming that.. the undead do not require food, therefore don't really need to 'create' anything, unless it's for their mental pleasure and survival,
they're physically rotting away, hence dangerous to the living creatures by nearing them? (that's like having corpse walking around you with diseases and germs right next to you)

Forsaken don't usually walk among the living and even if they do most Horde races are quite sturdy and hardly susceptible to such things. Besides, I doubt you could get diseases from them by simply sticking around them.

However, there are undead characters who left the Forsaken because they disagreed with the notion of Sylvanas and the Forsaken, meaning, there are still some who believe what the Forsaken is doing unethical so even in the world of Warcraft, their mission is considered evil to some, I guess.

They left because free-willed people can disagree. Hell, a risen undead is free to not join the Forsaken in the first place. It doesn't really mean much.

Which leads to my last bit of question, why does the Horde.. why does Azeroth really need them?

The more allies the Horde gets the better, especially when these grant control over chunks of the Alliance-dominated continent. About Azeroth...well, Azeroth doesn't need undead more than it needs humans anyway.

However, now that they're growing in size with the forces like the Nightborne, the Highmountain, the Zandalari and more,
Are the Horde seriously still in need to be treated as some kind of an evil underdog who needs to grasp every straw to survive?

You forget that the Alliance is growing in size too.

[Aquamonkey]

Alliance is heavily light-based faction and the undead are closer to the void/shadow creatures with... well, they are the living dead which threatens the living. Therefore Alliance races' loathe against them is almost instinctive I'd assume.

The Alliance is fine with undead DKs which have an addiction to inflicting pain and death. They also raise the dead to be slaves.

[ello]

They are a sapient, free-willed species that have participated in every major war since Vanilla. They helped the Blood Elves when nobody else would, they were in Northrend, helped bring down Garrosh, sent forces to Draenor, saved the Horde on the Broken Shore, continued to fight the Legion etc. They've earned the right to exist.

[bloodmoth13]

The goal of the more noble Forsaken is finding the cure to Undeath. Most have abandoned that goal, but I'm sure there are quite a few still working on it.

Since when was this ever their goal? There isnt any cure. When you die, your dead, when you get resurrected, you become 'undead', which part are they trying to find a cure for? Resurrection is the cure for death, death is the cure for Resurrection.

To me, the forsaken represent the philosophical question of whether in the void of pleasure, fulfillment of desires is enough to sustain someone. Forsaken feel no joy or sorrow, yet they continue because they have tasks to do and they want to do them. They are like those old doggard guys performing shit tasks day in and day out who have no free time but keep on keeping on just because they have a task to fulfill, and thats enough. Many are like willing cogs in a machine

[Zulkhan]

Since when was this ever their goal? There isnt any cure.

People have slowly got the habit of twisting the hell out of Magatha's bullshit back in Classic into something that isn't bullshit (even though it was).

[mickybrighteyes]

This line of thinking can be applied to ANY group in the game.

The only reason it sticks in people's minds for the forsaken is cause the individual is hung up on the fact that they're undead.

Worgen are cursed beings who after failing in their attempt to set out on their own had to get bailed out and join up with the very people they told to fuck off.

Elves are basically ALL a group of magic imbued people who think themselves superior to their less than magic imbued peers OR those magically imbued by different sources of magic.

Humans are generic overpopulated stand ins who in this storyline are the cursed vestige of a god-forged entity this planet was made for

Dwarves... see humans but shorter and more drunk

Gnomes... see dwarves but even SHORTER somehow and less (or more) sane (depending on personal bias).

Orcs and Draenei, foreign beings from other worlds introduced for #plot

Worgen... assholes who never liked playing nice who suddenly are made to play nice for never really talked about reasons. Also playing super nice with the people who DIDN'T help save them... Genn should be trying to get into Tyrande's pants NOT Varians

Why do any of these groups exist on Azeroth and why is their respective purposes ever soemthing to question?

[ls-]

Realistically, all races are disposable, and the same questions can be asked about their purpose and place, all of them are just trying to survive.

[GreenJesus]

The Alliance has Death Knights so your argument is invalid.

[Deleted]

The Forsaken do bring some things to the table.
As you already said, they don't need food, sleep or air to keep them going. If you look at it 'coldly' they are great footsoldiers/cannonfodder, because they don't fall over from injuries or sickness. They lose a leg and you stitch one on that you happen to have lying around, no need to bring their own leg from a chaotic battlefield. They don't need to wait to be healed after the leg got put back on, they simply get back into the fight.
If the enemy is any kind of mortal or at least sentient creature the following might be advantages too:
They also experience emotions less, so they'd not be put off by having to kill lots of enemies. They can also heal themselves by eating enemies' bodies, making healing an enemy a lot harder if not impossible, while at the same time seriously harming the enemy's morale.
This is ofc the case in a war against the Alliance or even the Horde, but it is also good if you have mortal followers of any other foe, like Twilight Cultists for example. Or Naga.

If you don't want to only look what they'd bring to a fight, you could say that they are there like everyone else too and just like mortals, who also came into the world simply by a curse (that of Flesh) and could be considered abominations by 'pure' beings, they have a right to find their place and peace in the world. And their freedom, which brings also the possibility of wrongdoing (by whatever standards), just as it does for non-undead afflicted by the Curse of Flesh.
What they can offer, if they so choose, is a look at Undeath and its implications, different states of Undeath, maybe research into a cure or research into better preservation, either to remove the need of procreation or to make better soldiers.
They can maybe even be a solution for people who have nothing they believe in (thus no 'nice' afterlife they belong to) and don't want to go into the shadowlands, to stave off this fate for a long time.

[Felixon]

Seriously, I'm not trying to hate on them.





Maybe I'm missing something because I don't read Warcraft books,
but isn't the Forsaken's ultimate goal is to survive by wiping out the livings eventually(as long as there's no bigger threat like the Legion)?

Therefore, continuously developing the plague?

I'm assuming that.. the undead do not require food, therefore don't really need to 'create' anything, unless it's for their mental pleasure and survival,
they're physically rotting away, hence dangerous to the living creatures by nearing them? (that's like having corpse walking around you with diseases and germs right next to you)



- The Forsaken has been force-raising the dead since Cataclysm, and only a few who didn't lose it about their 2nd life in undeath chose to serve and live on.
But probably I'm biased with an IRL human perspective.

- However, there are undead characters who left the Forsaken because they disagreed with the notion of Sylvanas and the Forsaken,
meaning, there are still some who believe what the Forsaken is doing unethical so even in the world of Warcraft, their mission is considered evil to some,
I guess.


- Which leads to my last bit of question, why does the Horde.. why does Azeroth really need them?



Alliance is heavily light-based faction and the undead are closer to the void/shadow creatures with... well, they are the living dead which threatens the living. Therefore Alliance races' loathe against them is almost instinctive I'd assume.


For the Horde, when they truly needed a powerhouse in the Eastern Kingdoms, it made sense to ally with the "necessary evil."

However, now that they're growing in size with the forces like the Nightborne, the Highmountain, the Zandalari and more,
Are the Horde seriously still in need to be treated as some kind of an evil underdog who needs to grasp every straw to survive?

And.. do the Forsaken create remarkable heroes that save Azeroth or something? (I know there are a few undeads that are important in some class halls and whatnot)



I really don't see why or how the Forsaken is welcomed by any factions or races other than themselves, unless the Forsaken leader is not in charge of a faction.

Am I missing something?

The undead stopped to make a sense as race after WOTLK.The whole "we can't repopulate,so we kill the living and raise them as one of us,thus condemning him to misery existence because the amazing Dark Lady wishes so" is like "fucking for virginity".They despise every living race,including their allies - a typical example is an undead,who gives you the q at the Crossroads to try out samples in oasis,which almost kill you and when you tell about it to the guy,he just makes fun of you.Afterwards,you are sent to Rachet to give these goods other undead to be sent to UC and an orc comes by and confiscates it,by saying that Hellscream made clear,that he is against the plague. And that new BfA course,when Golden writes,that Sylvanas's ultimate goal all along was SW...They are warmongers,they want to destroy the living (remember the WPL questline,where they are ready to spit at all the Argent Crusade's and Cenarion Circles work to actual make WPL a proper zone,they want to turn it to SHIT again).

[MatthiasLehner]

to add to my post, I think this comment I found on /r/warcraftlore is pretty good:

"The Forsaken are a threat to Azeroth, but not inherently so.

The current leader of the Forsaken is bent on never dying under any circumstances, and there is absolutely nothing she is unwilling to do to achieve that goal. Her current plan involves necromancy and indiscriminate killing, both the things that make the Scourge a threat to Azeroth, and she does it with the might of the Horde behind her.

However, there is nothing about the Forsaken themselves that make them inherently a threat to Azeroth. In fact many Forsaken would gladly leave the whole world alone and live the rest of their un-life in peace if given the chance. Some even go so far as to leave Sylvanas and go out of their way to make Azeroth safer for the living and dead alike.

TLDR: Sylvanas is a threat to everyone, but the Forsaken are only dangerous if they keep following her.

-Gregamonster"

[Aquamonkey]

Her current plan involves necromancy and indiscriminate killing,

No. It's not indiscriminate. It's very deliberate.

[mickybrighteyes]

Her current plan involves necromancy and indiscriminate killing,

indiscriminate
ˌɪndɪˈskrɪmɪnət/Submit
adjective
done at random or without careful judgement.

the lore and story bits people have been citing prove that these acts are not random and being done with some degree of judgement. Genn's recent acts as some form of military leader are a better example of indiscriminate

[Dreknar20]

I really don't see why or how the Forsaken is welcomed by any factions or races other than themselves, unless the Forsaken leader is not in charge of a faction.

most are mis trusting of them

But they are still a force to be reckoned. And power always trumps emotions

[ello]

to add to my post, I think this comment I found on /r/warcraftlore is pretty good:

"The Forsaken are a threat to Azeroth, but not inherently so.

The current leader of the Forsaken is bent on never dying under any circumstances, and there is absolutely nothing she is unwilling to do to achieve that goal. Her current plan involves necromancy and indiscriminate killing, both the things that make the Scourge a threat to Azeroth, and she does it with the might of the Horde behind her.

However, there is nothing about the Forsaken themselves that make them inherently a threat to Azeroth. In fact many Forsaken would gladly leave the whole world alone and live the rest of their un-life in peace if given the chance. Some even go so far as to leave Sylvanas and go out of their way to make Azeroth safer for the living and dead alike.

TLDR: Sylvanas is a threat to everyone, but the Forsaken are only dangerous if they keep following her.

-Gregamonster"

That post is crap.

Anyone who says this needs to go play through the Forsaken starting zones (especially Hillsbrad). The narrative takes great pains to show us that the Forsaken could be much worse than they are (examples include Stillwater, Redpath and Putress). The reality is Sylvanas isn't a "bad apple" or anything, she is actually a pretty average representation of Forsaken morality.

Additionally, Sylvanas isn't out for wonton destruction. Everything she does, malicious or otherwise, comes with purpose and forethought. This guy is making up some nonexistent plan that implies Sylvanas is out for world domination, that's not really the case. She is a threat to the Alliance, sure, but the Alliance isn't all of Azeroth.

This bit, in particular, is pure fanon:

However, there is nothing about the Forsaken themselves that make them inherently a threat to Azeroth. In fact many Forsaken would gladly leave the whole world alone and live the rest of their un-life in peace if given the chance. Some even go so far as to leave Sylvanas and go out of their way to make Azeroth safer for the living and dead alike.

The Forsaken have free will. If they don't want to participate THEY CAN LEAVE. The latest traveler series confirmed this.

All it takes to leave the Forsaken is a respectful asking of Sylvanas. If your duty is complete, she will release you. "Though she demanded loyalty, she would not hold her agents in thrall."

They choose to follow her. And why wouldn't they? She is the reason they have a society at all, she is the reason they have a place to call home and a nation united behind a coherent set of ideologies, beliefs etc.