Chronicle Volume III Amazon Preview

[MikeBogina]

And what exactly makes the Lich King so much more adept at Titan powers than a Titanforged? And how would necromancy help here? And where have I said anything about Aman'thul resisting Lei Shen? Also, Titans are naturally susceptible to Fel, so demons are likely to be effective against their souls.

Titanforged? Lei'shen is a fleshy TitanForged and by extent so is Arthas. It would give neither of them any advantage, the fact that Arthas is not only a necromancer but the Lich King with 1000's of souls gives him the clear edge.

And where have I said anything about Aman'thul resisting Lei Shen?

You didn't, you mentioned the Lich King overcoming them, but ignore Lei'shen didn't have to overcome Aman'thul, in whatever way you mean it.

[Aucald]

Because the Orc denied even knowing Garrosh, let alone doing it on his orders or in Horde's name. There was nothing that tied this attack to Garrosh. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The Orcs behind the attack didn't Horde colors or insignias. And that's the only thing the testimony showed. Him acting the way he did on that testimony is moronic. Especially when Garrosh refused the accusation and said he'd admit it if it was actually his doing because he thought dead Night Elves is a swell thing.

Even if he assumed the Orc was bullshitting about not knowing who Garrosh is, that is not proof of anything. Let alone Garrosh being responsible. Because that requires a leap from "the Orc lied about not knowing Garrosh" to "these are Horde Orcs", then to "they didn't act on their own because Orcs are super peaceful or something", then to "Garrosh knew about it", then to "Garrosh is the one that personally gave the order". Do you seriously not see the several leaps of reasoning here?

I don't remember if I went over this with you or someone else previously, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't long ago. Gorkrak (the Twilight Hammer Orc in question) actually feigned ignorance of Garrosh sarcastically and explicitly to plant the seed of suspicion in Hamuul's mind - it was a pointed exercise, and Gorkrak both knew who Garrosh was and knew that Hamuul didn't believe his feigned ignorance of the Warchief (e.g. he acted in a manner as if Garrosh wanted him to establish plausible deniability to tar Garrosh even further in Hamuul's view). And while it is true that Garrosh actually had nothing to do with this attack, the goal was to make it look like he did - and the Twilight's Hammer was ultimately quite successful in that goal.

Gorkrak wasn't bullshitting - he was quite cleverly laying the groundwork for the deception that would go on to form a giant rift in the Horde's leadership. He ultimately played both Hamuul and Cairne, and indirectly played Garrosh, like a virtuoso. He made himself look and conducted himself exactly like what Hamuul needed to see him to make the frame-up stuck.

Cairne jumping to conclusions like a retard when nothing whatsoever indicated Garrosh isn't anything remotely resembling "logical chain of reasoning". It's Cairne jumping to conclusions like a retard because TH played him like a fiddle and because he was prejudiced about him from the start.

Ultimately this comes down to basically saying "ha ha, look at those three idiots who got tricked." Cairne didn't jump to conclusions anymore than Hamuul did - he acted on the what the information looked like, unaware that it was a set-up by the Twilight's Hammer. Pretty logical chain from "Orc assassin kills a bunch of Night Elven Druids (and nearly kills Hamuul) trying to reach a peaceful negotiation. Very obviously tries to deny connection to Garrosh for plausible deniability. Hamuul informs Cairne, Cairne confronts Garrosh, Garrosh flippantly goes off about how killing Night Elves is just grand to someone who had almost lost his good friend in the incident." It was a good frame job by the Twilight's Hammer, all in all.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I know so many people Are gonna be upset with so many retconz but I love LOVE that were geting the fully story explained and canonized this seems to be every thing I’ve ever wanted out of the Warcraft story.

[Combatbutler]

I know so many people Are gonna be upset with so many retconz but I love LOVE that were geting the fully story explained and canonized this seems to be every thing I’ve ever wanted out of the Warcraft story.

If only they'd be consistent with the other chronicles, I already found one mistake. I wonder how many more I'll find once I get my copy XD

[Friendlyimmolation]

Combatbutler, you have less faith in the story than I do, however i still do not see the puzzle pieces you do. Unless the dialogue is changed, she sees the Horde as one worth saving, before the storm should clear things.

[Veldoranz]

Has Blizzard ever publicly stated how many books we're getting? I've seen snippets of maybe 3 or 4 being the last one, but can't find anything to back that up.

[Terongor]

he goes on about calculations and how the fight is pointless because he has calculated all possibilities. Once we beat him, he sees that his calculations are wrong because of our free will.

Basically we're all corrupted so we have to die, but that corruption gives us free will so maybe we can win and be given a chance. That's basically it, our free will beat his calculations and he calculated the world would end to the Old Gods.
About him sending another reply code

He was beaten and no longer had the strength. Has he recovered? not sure but at the end of fight he was no longer strong enough to send it and probably wouldn't be for some time.

Scourge champions would be able to just waltz right in and kill him since there's no defenses left. Or he could recover in time and wipe them all out. It on how it takes him to recover from near death encounter.


Surrender or not, he'd be brought into the Scourge with his knowledge and when Algalon shows up, ambush. Stormrage... i own and never read it xD But wasn't it Forsaken who were effected by it? Also in ICC, we see the Lich King who knows the future, is sending forces into the Emerald Dream before the Nightmare happens. We don't, but Lei'shen who wasn't a necromantic being was able to consume both Ra and Aman'thul's soul, though he wasn't able to make much use of Aman'thul's, I'd suspect that the Lich King being a necromantic deity who has been able to figure out everything else would have no problem making use of it.


I don't remember that, but I do know that Saronite is used like crazy by the Scourge and no where do you see them being effected by it. Icecrown and many of their machinery is made of it and there's even ghouls who are empowered by Saronite shards in a certain quest. Even in the Death Knight starting area, you recover Saronite arrows.
If you can link me to it I'd appreciate it, but from what we've seen, the scourge has no problem using it and they use it like crazy.

All of undercity had fallen which included some of the remaining abominations and they where still mindless. Also During the days of the black empire many of the Old gods power where able affect mindless titanforged because most of them originally where mostly machines(for example Y'sharaajs power) Also in Fleshwerks there are Ghouls which have grown saronite spikes I'd say that is affected.

Well Algalon might have recovered enough power to send another reply code when you take account that Argent crusade during that time built argent tournament ground which would take atleast a month(lore time) and only time we have seen somebody being a long time weaken after fight was illidan when he lost part of his souls power in Illidan novel. Also it might not be near death it might just be that we showed him our strength, and most of his powers where used not near death.

Also to waltz in they would still have fight Freya, Mimiron, Hodir and Thorim. All of them are extremely powerful still and fighting all of them at the same time would be hard. Also they would have the support of ice giants which would have given Algalon plenty of time.

Emerald nightmare was active the entire Wotlk time and growing stronger as we seen in emerald dragoshire only one emerald dream portal was still active which was in Darnassus, which could closed by Od gods.

Also ner'zhul had seen vision of frostmourne clashing with Ashbringer yeas, but as we have seen vision of future in wc universe are flimsy at best and so has the void seen all possible futures and Old god servants didn't seem to think Scourge was much a threat to their plans because they just ignored them. Lei Shens soul was born from pure arcane energy as was titans and titan keepers and Mogu had unparalleled knowledge of titanic arcade and they even managed to cure the curse of flesh.

Only thing that Saronite was confirmed not the affect where the knight of the ebon blade, but they are still death knights. Also many creatures who have old god corruption on them seem to immune to Lich kings necromantic power for example nagas who are only weak and we know for instant that Lokens souls was corrupted by Yogg-saron which would make it immune to Lich King necromancy.

I don't have game time at the moment and not all smallest quotes are in wowhead or wikia so I'll try to find video on youtube which shows it, but don't you think its weird LK uses living as miners in the pit of saron and not just kill them and make them mine?

Also Sargeras could always wake argus as patheon did before the fight and told him ton unmake all of creation because he could do that.

[Aeula]

I know so many people Are gonna be upset with so many retconz but I love LOVE that were geting the fully story explained and canonized this seems to be every thing I’ve ever wanted out of the Warcraft story.

It’s only canon until the next chronicle comes out and retcons something again.

[Combatbutler]

@Combatbutler, you have less faith in the strong than I do, however i still do not see the puzzle pieces you do. Unless the dialogue is changed, she sees the Horde as one worth saving, before the storm should clear things.

Here is the thing what she says is mostly not so important, while sometimes amusing, it is what she truly thinks and the snippets so far are not that promising. Garrosh downfall started similar, but just a tad more obvious.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If only they'd be consistent with the other chronicles, I already found one mistake. I wonder how many more I'll find once I get my copy XD

Eh can’t say I really care about mistakes it’s not like we didn’t have them before in the lore. What I want are details every little detail we can get. I want to know who raided what who was where at what time. This is giving more of that then any thing we have got in the past.

- - - Updated - - -

It’s only canon until the next chronicle comes out and retcons something again.

That’s also been the case for the lore though, now we atlest have info we never had before like which faction raided what.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Here is the thing what she says is mostly not so important, while sometimes amusing, it is what she truly thinks and the snippets so far are not that promising. Garrosh downfall started similar, but just a tad more obvious.

I guess we shall see, I will believe it when it happens , as for now I don’t get the same vibe. She also hasn’t killed other Horde leaders so she’s off to a stable start.


Although the idea of her Mak’gora -ing a horde leader is hysterical even more hysterical if you imagine magatha poisoning her weapon

[Terongor]

I provide proof, you refute it and claim you do... but don't. Ok? Frostmourne consumes souls, entrapping them or not, souls are consumed. The Lich King is also described as feeding on souls. I don't ever recall that feeding on souls meant that the soul is forever destroyed, but necromantic beings grow in power the more souls they have. Prove me wrong please, don't just say it.

Also, nothing states Sargeras put them there. Nameless demons retrieved them and Shavirra worked on them. In fact Sargeras is possibly on Azeroth the entire time this is happening, from him possessing Illidan's body to then showing up as the cloud.


The Frozen throne was attacked and his power leaking out. The Forsaken would need to be retaken, they gained their freedom.

The Knights of the Ebon blade were given too much free will and it was a weak excuse to give playable DKs to the players. It's never done again.

Trag Highmountain was never apart of the Scourge and was never raised by the Lich King. He was raised by the remaining powers of an artifact called the "Orb of Ner'zhul" that he shattered in his hand, an item that could raise powerful creatures in undeath, but didn't not give the Lich King control over them. The fact that the Lich King was able to whisper and try to control him from great distances showed how powerful the Lich King's psychic powers are at the time.
Bolvar is another story. He's a paladin through and through and wouldn't have seeked power at first(Time's change) but even though he doesn't count, what undead has Bolvar lost after he became the Lich King? Honestly he should have lost more since there was no host(and nerzhul got obliterated or weakened) and all of them should have been forsaken at that point... but after he became Lich King, what did he lose? Who was still shown as Scourge after that fight and then broke free?

The only case is the Death Knights and that can be attributed to too much free will, but still Ill give you that one.

Could you provide me link to this statement about titans souls being retrieved from ulduar by nameless demons?

We know that their souls falled to their blessed keepers Aggramar souls wouldn't be there his only keepers was tyr(his only keeper) who used all the titanic power that was with him to stop those two c'thraxxi and died. Aman'thul souls would be with Wrathion and he wouldn't be there. Khaz'goroth would be in uldaman in Archaedas(his only keeper) and might have suffered because of the bodies death, Norganon would be in Loken and Loken was dead... we don't know if the souls survived without functioning hosts. So only one who would be there on alive body would Golganeth and he might be in Thorim or Hodir and we have no knowledge about it. Also "Though she was felled by the blade of Sargeras, the Life-Binder's essence escaped the grasp of the Dark Titan. After millennia spent hiding in isolation, Eonar's sanctuary has been discovered by the Legion. Should her soul fall into the enemy's hands, Eonar's powers of nature and growth will be perverted to make the Burning Crusade unstoppable." She had being hiding over millennia

[Combatbutler]

I guess we shall see, I will believe it when it happens , as for now I don’t get the same vibe. She also hasn’t killed other Horde leaders so she’s off to a stable start.


Although the idea of her Mak’gora -ing a horde leader is hysterical even more hysterical if you imagine magatha poisoning her weapon

I am telling you she will choose a champion to fight in her stead, a Blight barrel.

[MikeBogina]

That is the whole point of consuming souls, they would be sustenance, energy to be expended, a prime example of actually consuming souls would be fel engines breaking down a soul until nothing remains.

"Thus, using his psychic and necromantic powers, he was able to conquer much of Northrend. As he devoured more and more souls, he only grew in power as the individual undead under his control gave him "much needed nourishment". Thus, his powers began growing at an exponential rate"
from the wiki, you're literally trying your hardest to argue the very nature of the Lich King and I don't want to argue your opinion anymore, it's tiring.

He doesn't need to be nearby, they need to be put in shackles only once, by a mechanism powerful enough to hold them, power that Sargeras can provide in abundance.

First it was Sargeras, now it's mechanisms and his power. The breaking of them and darkening them isn't being done by him, don't make up things that aren't true.

Yeah because they broke their hold and still heard him but resisted his mental control, which is why they got their racial. And before the valkyr new undead had broken control fom the lk as well.

They didn't break his hold, they just were the lucky ones that he lost when it happened. What new undead had broken control?

The knights of the ebon blade were just as enslaved as any other higher undead in his army. And it does happen again in the eastern plaguelands stronger willed undead freeing themselves and taking lesser undead with them. Not to mention the loss of the cult of the damned, despite them drinking mind altering drugs to make them loyal to him.

They had a lot of free will, compared to beings like Anub'erak who despised the Lich King greatly and was a more powerful ancient being. And when did Arthas lose the Cult of the Damned, who also have free will and made up of a lot of living beings?

The lich king tried to enslave him as he had done with most of the banshees, prior to the third war. But it didn't work.

He tried to enslave someone who had free will and was never resurrected by the scourge and actually was able to get him to try and kill Thrall... from across the world. That's actually impressive. Idk what you mean by the banshees though.

Bolvar is no longer a paladin, he holds the same power and Arthas did before him and he is starting to use it, and behaves a lot like Sylvanas just with more power at his disposal.

I'm referring to when he became Lich King, he wasn't tricked or lured with power, he was determined to be the jailer(unless Arthas did break him and only allowed us to hear him resisting and we got swindled) and it's effected him heavily since, but to my question... what undead has he lost since? And yeah he makes me think that he's still the same lich king, but using more underhanded tactics of "im your friends, ignore all the new undead please". I'm hoping to see them clash or at least converse.

The titans would have full fledged free will and he would have to subdue them first and then be powerful enough to hold them in line. Even though mere mortals have broken his hold by the tens of thousands.

@Mehrunes, this is why I brought up the Aman'thul not resisting Lei'shen. I seriously want to know how you guys or ok with a flesh mogu with no powers of souls, being able to do this, but not the Lich King. I just don't want to bother because it feels more and more like "I hate the lich king, so he can't do things I don't want him to" from you guys.

[Lodreh]

So from what I've seen...

Horde = Savage brutes who only understand violence that want the world to burn.

Alliance = Noble kinships offering aid to one another to keep Horde aggression in check.

Seems legit.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I am telling you she will choose a champion to fight in her stead, a Blight barrel.

Detonate!

/10

[Combatbutler]

"Thus, using his psychic and necromantic powers, he was able to conquer much of Northrend. As he devoured more and more souls, he only grew in power as the individual undead under his control gave him "much needed nourishment". Thus, his powers began growing at an exponential rate"
from the wiki, you're literally trying your hardest to argue the very nature of the Lich King and I don't want to argue your opinion anymore, it's tiring.

Well I shall concede the consuming souls, as stupid as it sounds and considering he doesn't actually consume them

First it was Sargeras, now it's mechanisms and his power. The breaking of them and darkening them isn't being done by him, don't make up things that aren't true.

I am arguing they had far more power at the disposal to work on the titans than the lich king ever could have, which considering they had argus and Sargaeras and fel machines all over the planet is pretty reasonable. The lich king simply lacks the power to enslave the titans. All he could try to coerce them and I'd like to see a mere mortal try to actually consume a titans essence, at the end of day the lich king is nothing but a modified mortal soul.

They didn't break his hold, they just were the lucky ones that he lost when it happened.

He didn't outright lose all control, his grip loosened and then they broke free. Sylvanas looked for nathanos for example and he broke control thanks to her, the lich king was still connected to every last forsaken, but was unable to reclaim them.

What new undead had broken control?

Ix'lar for example and every last playable forsaken character prior to cata.

They had a lot of free will, compared to beings like Anub'erak who despised the Lich King greatly and was a more powerful ancient being. And when did Arthas lose the Cult of the Damned, who also have free will and made up of a lot of living beings?

They had the same amount of free will, Arthas was hated all throughout the scourge ranks. Arthas did not loose the cult bolvar did, I just rechecked that mind altering drug was from the rpg.

He tried to enslave someone who had free will and was never resurrected by the scourge and actually was able to get him to try and kill Thrall... from across the world. That's actually impressive. Idk what you mean by the banshees though.

Most of the banshees existed prior to the lich kings arrival, he gathered them and enlisted them into his army.

@Mehrunes, this is why I brought up the Aman'thul not resisting Lei'shen. I seriously want to know how you guys or ok with a flesh mogu with no powers of souls, being able to do this, but not the Lich King. I just don't want to bother because it feels more and more like "I hate the lich king, so he can't do things I don't want him to" from you guys.

Because Lei'shen couldn't do anything with the spark, it might have been part of him but it didn't grant him the titans power, considering just what these remnants of titans are capable off, and why do you spout such utter nonsense about hating the lich king? Ultimately the Lich king is a modified mortal soul, nothing more nothing less, arguing that a modified mortal soul can actually take on a titans essence is asinine, it would be like arguing Lei Shen is capable of subduing Aman'thul which would be just as ridiculous, despite him being stronger than the LK by himself.

[Qualia]

Could you provide me link to this statement about titans souls being retrieved from ulduar by nameless demons?

Other than the "nameless demons" part, this is the statement that Sargeras got the Pantheon's souls from their Ulduar invasion, and Aman'thul's soul during one of the world invasion on Azeroth:

Q: Still not explained how Sargeras went about acquiring the titan souls. Retcon from Chronicles?
Muffinus: Eonar kind of explains this, in the time since the Chronicle he's managed to gather them all, except her, and has already turned Aggramar.
Q: My only point is: last remnants were inside the Keepers. Now, the souls are on Argus. That is a contradiction. They need to explain how.
Muffinus: You know how there were demons in Ulduar during Legion pre-launch week 2?
Q: Yup it's a theory that the Legion targeted Ulduar for this! What about Aman'thul's soul fragment? It was inside Lei Shen & now Wrathion.
Muffinus: Did you do invasions? (Source)

[Lahis]

Has Blizzard ever publicly stated how many books we're getting? I've seen snippets of maybe 3 or 4 being the last one, but can't find anything to back that up.

3 goes from aftermath of the 2nd war to the end of Cataclysm. 4 would be MoP, WoD, Legion and maybe BfA. Nothign stops them from makign more books about specific aspects of the world, but overall history retelling will be canned in 4th volume (for now, they need few more expansions for 5th history book).

[Daevelian]

Because Lei'shen couldn't do anything with the spark, it might have been part of him but it didn't grant him the titans power, considering just what these remnants of titans are capable off, and why do you spout such utter nonsense about hating the lich king? Ultimately the Lich king is a modified mortal soul, nothing more nothing less, arguing that a modified mortal soul can actually take on a titans essence is asinine, it would be like arguing Lei Shen is capable of subduing Aman'thul which would be just as ridiculous, despite him being stronger than the LK by himself.

So, just playing devils advocate here, but... Illidan?