Open borders OR Welfare?

[Mlz]

I personally prefer closed (controlled) borders and lots of Welfare.
The issue seems to come when too many uneducated and un-integrable people come to a country.
They dry up the welfare system.

What about uneducated citizens who are a drain on a society? Should they be given welfare just because they were born on the right side of the border?

[Deleted]

I'm fine with some welfare for the truly needy citizens. I'm not ok with immigrants that aren't highly qualified people. We don't need more poor people, or people who will make the job market more competitive for our people. The only people benefitting from no borders are ruthless businessmen, politicians (Democrats *wink wink*) or communists who hate America.

[Deleted]

Well it was the CPC that caused it, but I can understand their reasons. If they'd done it in 65 I'd be more on their side though. Above all else it was a real fucking shame.

From a geopolitical point of view, that was a enormous victory for Americans and British. Really pushed back the Red Tide.

Thank you for your answers.

[Player Twelve]

What about uneducated citizens who are a drain on a society? Should they be given welfare just because they were born on the right side of the border?

Unless you are disabled, you can't be on welfare forever. You are required to search employment or retrain yourself to be employable. At least that's how it is in Sweden.

[Gorgodeus]

How do you prevent a massive amount of people immigrating solely for the purpose of collecting welfare?

Hate to burst your bubble but immigrants do not come to the US for welfare. They are not even eligible for it. lol

[Mlz]

Unless you are disabled, you can't be on welfare forever. You are required to search employment or retrain yourself to be employable. At least that's how it is in Sweden.

My point was rather about comparing uneducated immigrants to uneducated citizens. Don't you have försörjningsstöd anyway?

[Player Twelve]

My point was rather about comparing uneducated immigrants to uneducated citizens. Don't you have försörjningsstöd anyway?

You are required to look for employment or retrain yourself to be on that. You can't be on it an infinite amount of time. It's meant to be a temporary thing until you've got a job.

[Uoyredrum]

Unless you are disabled, you can't be on welfare forever. You are required to search employment or retrain yourself to be employable. At least that's how it is in Sweden.

That's generally how it is here too. People find loopholes occasionally but that's generally how the system functions.

[Lochton]

One of the toughest questions to ask is how much we are willing to spend on welfare for adults vs how much we are willing to open our borders to immigration. In American past, there was almost no welfare and we also didn't have a formal immigration system. In 1924, Americans started putting quotas on immigration and later in the 40s we greatly increased our welfare state.

Welfare for adults acts as a huge incentive for people to immigrate here.

So my question I want to pose is this? Generally do you support more welfare? More open borders? Neither? etc etc

If you put "Something else" please be specific. Otherwise just use a broad option in the poll.

I would be more at preference of welfare to the ones deserving. As in, work for a certain amount of time legally and then you earn it. Not the kind where people can come here on welfare tourism.

[Laerrus]

I voted something else.

Semi-open borders (we should always screen and background check people that enter the US, we don't need a fucking wall either, just put some drones and National Guard/Reserves on the job) and welfare only for citizens.

I am fine with people moving here first under a work visa then pursuing citizenship (try before you buy) but they need to be able to support themselves while they are here, if they still belong to their former country.

[BuckSparkles]

How about neither?

[A dot Ham]

One of the toughest questions to ask is how much we are willing to spend on welfare for adults vs how much we are willing to open our borders to immigration. In American past, there was almost no welfare and we also didn't have a formal immigration system. In 1924, Americans started putting quotas on immigration and later in the 40s we greatly increased our welfare state.

Welfare for adults acts as a huge incentive for people to immigrate here.

So my question I want to pose is this? Generally do you support more welfare? More open borders? Neither? etc etc

If you put "Something else" please be specific. Otherwise just use a broad option in the poll.

There is so much irony and misinformation in the whole immigration debate. Lets break it down real quick.

First, lets be clear that this idea that [illegal] immigrants come here to take advantage of public assistance is just plain false. [Illegal] immigrants come here because they have opportunities, opportunities to provide for their families (point of fact, that's the type of person we want here right?). Most DON'T bring their families, they live in shitty conditions and send 90% or more of their earnings back to their country of origin and their families back home. (which is bad for OUR economy because it means that money ISN'T being spent HERE).

Second, [Illegal] immigrants don't pay taxes... also false. Why? Because the IRS does a better job at deporting people than border patrol. You want to stay under the radar... pay your taxes. Immigrants learn this very quickly. So they pay into a system that provides them no direct benefit... man that sucks don't you think?

Third, who provides these jobs? These less than minimum wage, under the table, cash paying jobs? Liberals? You mean the one's that believe in livable wages, equality, etc? You aren't serious are you? Ok good. No its the self employed, self proclaimed, stereotypical republicans... those (who by no fault of their own) can't compete with large corporations, so they try to do so by cutting labor costs, and paying people less than minimum wage and under the table.

But you hate those nasty illegals don't you? Supply and demand folks... If you really don't want them here... stop creating opportunities for them to be here.

[Xandrigity]

Closed borders minimal welfare

[Krigaren]

Before 1924, the only requirement to immigrate to the US was a literacy test. It was open borders.

An "open border" is allowing anyone in regardless. Administering a test, even a "simple" literacy test (when the world-wide literacy rate in the 1920s was only around 32%), is, by definition, a barrier to entry, and a significant one. Therefore, the borders weren't actually open.

[McFuu]

An "open border" is allowing anyone in regardless. Administering a test, even a "simple" literacy test (when the world-wide literacy rate in the 1920s was only around 32%), is, by definition, a barrier to entry, and a significant one. Therefore, the borders weren't actually open.

Lol, I was wondering when this was going to be mentioned about literacy.

I'm still for a system based along these lines. My big issue now is everyone is on some sort of Visa, and the application process is ridiculous. We aren't using Merit as a test for entering the US right now, it's more of a spend all the money you have while hoping we pull your number system.

[Macaquerie]

Lol, I was wondering when this was going to be mentioned about literacy.

I'm still for a system based along these lines. My big issue now is everyone is on some sort of Visa, and the application process is ridiculous. We aren't using Merit as a test for entering the US right now, it's more of a spend all the money you have while hoping we pull your number system.

That's because the process for immigrating legally is meant to be intentionally frustrating to discourage people from doing it.

[Adam Jensen]

Nobody that isn't an anarchist supports open borders.

This.

Most liberals and democrats in this country want a sane, and not racist-based, policy.

People should be vetted before they enter the nation. I'm fine with that. However, DACA recipients should have some path to citizenship. Border security needs to focus on actual solutions, like disincentivizing companies from hiring illegal migrant workers, and less on bullshit like a physical wall. We don't need a racist sheriff who uses racial profiling and concentration camps in Arizona. We do need reform to help people become American citizens, if they wish, without putting them through ridiculous hoops, and without compromising our security.

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I voted something else.

Semi-open borders (we should always screen and background check people that enter the US, we don't need a fucking wall either, just put some drones and National Guard/Reserves on the job) and welfare only for citizens.

I am fine with people moving here first under a work visa then pursuing citizenship (try before you buy) but they need to be able to support themselves while they are here, if they still belong to their former country.

Why should the NG or Reserves do the job that belongs to Border Patrol?

We have web-based trainings to attend, dammit!

[turlockmike]

This.

Most liberals and democrats in this country want a sane, and not racist-based, policy.

People should be vetted before they enter the nation. I'm fine with that. However, DACA recipients should have some path to citizenship. Border security needs to focus on actual solutions, like disincentivizing companies from hiring illegal migrant workers, and less on bullshit like a physical wall. We don't need a racist sheriff who uses racial profiling and concentration camps in Arizona. We do need reform to help people become American citizens, if they wish, without putting them through ridiculous hoops, and without compromising our security.

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Why should the NG or Reserves do the job that belongs to Border Patrol?

We have web-based trainings to attend, dammit!

A large number of them do contract and gig work and unless we want to force everyone to make sure their gardener and painter is authorized to be in the US, it's a huge headache. Also, democrats have voted against E-verify every time it's brought up, and I don't see that changing.

[bladeXcrasher]

One of the toughest questions to ask is how much we are willing to spend on welfare for adults vs how much we are willing to open our borders to immigration. In American past, there was almost no welfare and we also didn't have a formal immigration system. In 1924, Americans started putting quotas on immigration and later in the 40s we greatly increased our welfare state.

Welfare for adults acts as a huge incentive for people to immigrate here.

So my question I want to pose is this? Generally do you support more welfare? More open borders? Neither? etc etc

If you put "Something else" please be specific. Otherwise just use a broad option in the poll.

The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 would like to have a word with you.

[Jastall]

Before 1924, the only requirement to immigrate to the US was a literacy test. It was open borders.

I'm curious, do you think a lot of people worldwide could pass an English literacy test in 1924? Following your answer, do you still believe this requirement equated to ''open borders''?