Would you rather Void Elves or High Elves?

[therealbowser]

Void elves.

I'll take elves with a more significant difference and more interesting story over 'blood elves with blue eyes'. That's just me though, I don't really care that much about the elves either way. As long as the male elves had a beard like void elves do, I'd be happy with them regardless.

So, uh... how many more posts about "omg I wanted high elves" do we need before people begin to accept that void elves are here and high elves are never going to arrive? Be happy we even got void elves, that was a massive stretch that Blizzard could have chosen not to do.

[Andromedes]

Void elves.

more interesting story

Lol
10chars

[Thrif]

High Elves. Both because I consider them a vital part of the Alliance ever since War2 (and I do Ogres too sadface), and because void elves are just too emo for me.

[Beerbadger]

Both would be cool, but high elves would have been my pick out of the two.

[Toppy]

I less have issue with Void Elves, more so have issue with their leader being a blatant many sue.

[Fyersing]

The Blood Elf storyline of the opening zones where you help bring the Blood Elves into the Horde. No Alliance participation whatsoever.

So long as we ignore that the Alliance presence there was the catalyst for their decision to join the Horde in the first place; look, I'm not trying to suggest that all of the interplay between the Alliance and Quel'thalas is ultimately productive, rather I'm just intrigued by the fact that there is very little interplay at all between the Horde and Quel'thalas at all in the grande scheme -- especially if we hyper-focus on major milestones (i.e. the restoration of the Sunwell, the reforging of Quel'delar, perhaps Isle of Thunder).

Without the Alliance, the Blood Elves would likely still be resorting to suckling on arcane rocks -- without the Horde, the Blood Elves would be, at worst, mildly discontent but otherwise in the exact same situation they're in currently? As well as being capable of exchange with High Elves (and Void Elves), the same way almost all of the other races will now have some subtle interactions with a "sub-race", which has been an important part of their particular story arcs for a decade.

[Jester Joe]

It wouldn't be thematically and narratively appropriate at all, you would have to junk nearly fifteen years of storytelling (yes it has been nearly fifteen years since the High/Blood Elves upped and left the Alliance and some still haven't gotten over it) to even consider it appropriate even if it is logistically impossible.

As for the storyline examples you provide, those were more reflective of gameplay necessity so that Alliance players could participate in that content, but I can answer your challenge with ease.

The Blood Elf storyline of the opening zones where you help bring the Blood Elves into the Horde. No Alliance participation whatsoever.

I'm not sure why you'd say "those were more reflective of gameplay necessity so that Alliance players could participate in that content", while proceeding to list an event that's...well, gameplay reason.

You'd also have to forget that even Lor'themar was thinking of leaving the Horde during MoP, so it seems like it's more than just gameplay.

[Obelisk Kai]

I'm not sure why you'd say "those were more reflective of gameplay necessity so that Alliance players could participate in that content", while proceeding to list an event that's...well, gameplay reason.

You'd also have to forget that even Lor'themar was thinking of leaving the Horde during MoP, so it seems like it's more than just gameplay.

I don't forget that Lor'themar was thinking of leaving the Horde. My interpretation of that event was that, out of game, it was a restatement of purposes to the people who continually complained about the Blood Elves being on the Horde by showing them exactly why the Blood Elves are in the Horde. It showed the Elves being tempted by circumstances and then yet another Human instigated slaughter closing that path off.

Permanently.

In game, it completely foreclosed any possibility of the Blood Elves even thinking of returning to the Alliance. The Blood Elven leadership and population has become noticeably more pro Horde since MOP, with Lady Liadrin evangelising them to the Nightborne. And the Nightborne, the Blood Elves's soulmates, are also a part of the Horde now. Frankly the true high elves and the nightborne get on vastly better than the kingdom of Quel'thalas ever did in the Alliance. They anchor each other to the Horde.

[Skirdus]

high elves so people will stop complaining about no high elves

I less have issue with Void Elves, more so have issue with their leader being a blatant many sue.

really? Alleria's one of the few characters in the game I actually like tbh

[Nayami]

Void elves are alright tbh, the only thing that bothers me really is how they pretty much came out of thin air when compared to all other current allied races' backstories. From just a "how they look" PoV they're pretty awesome. My void elf shadow priest also feels pretty OP! Some void on void action!

[Jester Joe]

I don't forget that Lor'themar was thinking of leaving the Horde. My interpretation of that event was that, out of game, it was a restatement of purposes to the people who continually complained about the Blood Elves being on the Horde by showing them exactly why the Blood Elves are in the Horde. It showed the Elves being tempted by circumstances and then yet another Human instigated slaughter closing that path off.

Permanently.

In game, it completely foreclosed any possibility of the Blood Elves even thinking of returning to the Alliance. The Blood Elven leadership and population has become noticeably more pro Horde since MOP, with Lady Liadrin evangelising them to the Nightborne. And the Nightborne, the Blood Elves's soulmates, are also a part of the Horde now. Frankly the true high elves and the nightborne get on vastly better than the kingdom of Quel'thalas ever did in the Alliance. They anchor each other to the Horde.

I would say that's quite a spin on what actually happened, and that was Garrosh's Horde treating the Blood Elves like trash.

And Blood Elves and Nightborne getting along well have nothing to do with whether or not they stay Horde though.
While I wouldn't deny that the Blood elves are never going to be Alliance ever, they should have very many issues with the current state of the Horde going into BfA.
Remember, one of Sylvanas's and Lor'themar's issues with the attack on Theramore was that the Alliance would lash out against them and they would lose their home.

With Undercity abandoned, the Blood elves are left with no buffer zone at this point. And it would make no sense that the Alliance would stop at that point after Teldrassil being burned, why would they not continue to press upwards to try to strike at the Sunwell?

At that point, Lor'themar should be doubtful of the Horde's direction.

Void elves are alright tbh, the only thing that bothers me really is how they pretty much came out of thin air when compared to all other current allied races' backstories. From just a "how they look" PoV they're pretty awesome. My void elf shadow priest also feels pretty OP! Some void on void action!

I would agree with this.

Void elves feel, lorewise, more like Blizzard just didn't want another Pandaren situation. It would have made far more sense after Legion for the Nightborne to be split between loyalties, with some going Alliance and some going Horde while a bulk stay neutral. Then both factions get the race people wanted originally, while both factions also get a reskin race (Highmountain Tauren go Horde obviously, and Lightforged Draenei Alliance).

Look wise though, they're pretty dang neat.

[Armourboy]

High Elves, they pretty much pulled Void Elves out of their ass just to keep from giving Alliance High Elves. I showed them to my wife who doesn't even play anymore and she just rolled her eyes when she saw them.

[McNeil]

High elves are just blood elves with blue eyes, but at least they are established a lot more then the asspull that are void elves. I'd rather see neither of them or any other elf race, I think something like furbolgs or ethereals are far better options for an Allied race.

[therealbowser]

Lol
10chars

Lol
nothing to respond with, devoid of imagination

Am I doing it right?

[Obelisk Kai]

I would say that's quite a spin on what actually happened, and that was Garrosh's Horde treating the Blood Elves like trash.

And Blood Elves and Nightborne getting along well have nothing to do with whether or not they stay Horde though.
While I wouldn't deny that the Blood elves are never going to be Alliance ever, they should have very many issues with the current state of the Horde going into BfA.
Remember, one of Sylvanas's and Lor'themar's issues with the attack on Theramore was that the Alliance would lash out against them and they would lose their home.

With Undercity abandoned, the Blood elves are left with no buffer zone at this point. And it would make no sense that the Alliance would stop at that point after Teldrassil being burned, why would they not continue to press upwards to try to strike at the Sunwell?

At that point, Lor'themar should be doubtful of the Horde's direction.

I would argue that in return you are ignoring the actions of the Blood Elf leadership.

Firstly, you hit the nail right on the head. GARROSH'S Horde. I am not going to get into the whole Garrosh was right debate, that's an entirely different argument. All the other races of the Horde grew increasingly disgusted with his Orc supremacist attitude, not just the Blood Elves.

After the extremely brief flirtation with the Alliance was closed down by Jaina proving Rommath right again that it was a mistake to ever trust the Alliance. At the same moment, Aethas Sunreaver's perspective of closer cooperation with Humans was utterly discredited. Instead the Blood Elves came to the same conclusion as the Trolls, Tauren, Goblins, Forsaken and even the majority of the Orcs. The problem was Garrosh, not the Horde.

What have we seen since that time in regards to the Blood Elves's attitude to the Horde?

Immediately after the Divine Bell incident, Rommath comments that Lor'themar would make a good Warchief.

On the Isle of Thunder, Lor'themar embraces the Blood Elves's identity as part of the Horde, stating that 'we are Horde, we do not give up!' (I am paraphrasing here, it has been a few years).

At the end of Siege of Orgimmar , the leader of the Blood Elves bows to a Troll, Vol'Jin, and acknowledges him as his Warchief and de facto superior.

In Legion, Lady Liadrin is continually singing the praises of the Horde to the Nightborne.


As for BFA, I am avoiding most spoilers if possible so I cannot comment on specifics but your post doesn't make a lot of sense. If the Alliance was going to push ahead from Undercity into Quel'thalas, why would that make the Blood Elves MORE doubtful of the Horde? Nothing is going to stop an Alliance incursion at this point into Silvermoon if that is what the Alliance chooses to do. You seem to be implying that the Blood Elves should be reconsidering their position in the Horde to forestall an inevitable Alliance attack. The more realistic scenario is the one that will probably unfold, that the Blood Elves will cleave even tighter to the Horde so that they have the necessary support to fend off any Alliance incursion.

After many years of serving alongside each other, it is apparent that the Blood Elves have integrated into the Horde in a way they never integrated into the Alliance. The High Elves joined the Alliance only grudgingly at the height of their power and with their isolationist xenophobia in full swing. Only the most adventurous and outward looking Elves appear to have formed any meaningful bond with the Alliance, and this small band was the source of the High Elven remnant within the Alliance today.

The greater part of the High Elves clung to their old ways until it was burned out of them by Arthas destroying their civilization. It's hard to be haughty when everything you hold dear has been ground to dust. So by necessity, the Blood Elves have had to be more hands on with the Horde than they ever were with the Alliance.

The Blood Elf leadership has been consistently and firmly pro Horde for many years now. I am not saying they are one hundred percent behind the Orcs, but that they clearly see a lot more value and meaning in their relationship with the other races of the Horde than they do with the races of the Alliance.

I would agree with this.

Void elves feel, lorewise, more like Blizzard just didn't want another Pandaren situation. It would have made far more sense after Legion for the Nightborne to be split between loyalties, with some going Alliance and some going Horde while a bulk stay neutral. Then both factions get the race people wanted originally, while both factions also get a reskin race (Highmountain Tauren go Horde obviously, and Lightforged Draenei Alliance).

Look wise though, they're pretty dang neat.

Oh come on, it does not make more sense for the Nightborne to be a neutral race. The Nightborne being on the Horde makes total and complete sense.

Don't believe me?

Read this post.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20760828270

I regard this as the be all and end all of the Nightborne discussion.

People keep complaining that the characters and races don't behave in believable ways when what they really mean is that those characters and races aren't behaving in the way that particular poster thinks they should behave.

As long as a credible case is made for a character or a race making a particular choice, as the OP in the thread I linked does, then the decision of that character or race makes complete and total sense and IS believable.

High Elves, they pretty much pulled Void Elves out of their ass just to keep from giving Alliance High Elves. I showed them to my wife who doesn't even play anymore and she just rolled her eyes when she saw them.

And Void Elves were created specifically to give the Alliance a thalassian elf without giving them High Elves, which are playable on the Horde. Said it myself years ago in another one of these debates, the only way they'd give High Elves to the Alliance was if they were changed somehow. I was thinking withered at the time, but void corruption works too.

Why anyone is surprised that they didn't give the Alliance a complete copy of a core Horde race mystifies me.

[Ravingmad]

High Elves weren't in Warcraft 1. It was just Orcs and Humans only.

I double checked and you are correct. So Warcraft 2 then.

[Magnagarde]

A few of the pro void elf votes are extreme void elf fans, while the majority of these votes are blood elf fans/players who want no classical high elves on the Alliance. There's actually only a few people who genuinely think that void elves are an upgrade to high elves.

[Eucep]

Lore wise the high elves would win by far for me. However I'm already at times confused enough as it is with Void elves vs Blood elves. It would be worse if it were High Elves. Actually right now have it worse with Nightborne vs Night Elves for visual silhouette.

[AngerFork]

Void Elves by a long shot for me.

If you look at the races as they are, I think Void Elves have a lot more potential places that they can go. They aren't just old Blood Elves, they were reshaped due partially to their experimentation with the Void. They have plenty of places to go story-wise from here, from their hatred of Silvermoon (kicked out for trying to protect their homeland) to their Void ties (might help with Void expansions in the future) to how and whether they can grow and prosper from here.

Compare that to the High Elves. Putting aside the "Blood Elves with Blue Eyes" thing, they don't really seem to have a lot of places to go lore-wise. Given the changes Blood Elves went through and how few High Elves there are, we are basically looking at the last remnants of a dying race. While there are some still in the Alliance, there really is not a lot of places for them to go story-wise at this point.

I would so much rather have a race with room to grow and the potential to really help out the story in the future than a race that is nearly extinct and does not really seem to move the story further at this point.

[breadisfunny]

void elves are the cancer that is killing alleria.