Sony Registers A New Patent of Backward Compatibility

[Jtbrig7390]

https://gametransfers.com/sony-regis...compatibility/

In terms of image and communication, Microsoft has done a good job by announcing the arrival of backward compatibility on Xbox One. Sony, which does not offer it on PS4, knows it very well. And obviously, the Japanese manufacturer will not be content with the status quo.

The insider Tidux shared on Twitter a patent recently registered by Sony Interactive Entertainment America and apparently designed by Mark Cerny, responsible for the architecture of PlayStation 4.

The patent in question is not very clear at the moment but it seems that Sony is willing to implement the backward compatibility in the future, not necessarily on PlayStation 4. Some theories would suggest the patent related to PlayStation 5, the next console of the Japanese company may be backward compatible with PS4 games but it is not excluded that SIE can offer the possibility of running the PlayStation 3 games on PlayStation 4 and PS4 Pro.

The scenarios are many, the certainties very few, the only one concerns the existence of the patent recently registered at the US patent office.

In recent news, Sony has recently announced an internal reorganization that will hit all the world divisions of PlayStation, with the aim of optimizing the development and production of AAA First Party games.

What do you think about it? Have you already got an idea about it?

Really hope this turns into a thing and if so....ABOUT FUCKEN TIME. I would settle for PS2/PS1 BC but PS3 BC would be great.

This as on Kinda Funny Games Daily podcast today and it seems it was looked at at the end of last month.

2min mark

[dope_danny]

Well everyone wants it its just been a 'they dont think its worth the dev time and resources' situation. But it is funny timing since yesterday they put a SUB TO PS NOW FUCKER icon on the ps4 dashboard everyone instantly deleted.

Honestly they had a huge win with 'and this is how preowned games work' a few years back. If they just do a firmware update and it emulates ps3 games that would be another "our competiton has SOME backwards compatibility but now ALL ps3 games run on ps4!". Or its ps5 early stuff to ensure this shorter gen remains relevant sales wise.

[Jtbrig7390]

Well everyone wants it its just been a 'they dont think its worth the dev time and resources' situation. But it is funny timing since yesterday they put a SUB TO PS NOW FUCKER icon on the ps4 dashboard everyone instantly deleted.

Honestly they had a huge win with 'and this is how preowned games work' a few years back. If they just do a firmware update and it emulates ps3 games that would be another "our competiton has SOME backwards compatibility but now ALL ps3 games run on ps4!". Or its ps5 early stuff to ensure this shorter gen remains relevant sales wise.

No matter how it gets here ill just be happy. I would even settle for them copying Xbox's setup where you pop the disk in and download. Rather have it on a software level and just put my disk in and play.

I hope it comes available for testing in the firmware beta soon If it happens tho I don't expect to hear anything until at lease E3.\

I have notice that they have for the most part stopped doing PS2 to PS4 games, I wonder if this is why. They even removed that as a selection slot on the store and just put them with the rest of the games.

[dope_danny]

No matter how it gets here ill just be happy. I would even settle for them copying Xbox's setup where you pop the disk in and download. Rather have it on a software level and just put my disk in and play.

I hope it comes available for testing in the firmware beta soon If it happens tho I don't expect to hear anything until at lease E3.\

I have notice that they have for the most part stopped doing PS2 to PS4 games, I wonder if this is why. They even removed that as a selection slot on the store and just put them with the rest of the games.

I think they bought up those streaming services and thought that was the future of games. Clearly enough people have voted with their wallets to say fuuuccckkk that noise.

I expect it to be ps4 on ps5 but if it is ps3 at least i imagine its just taken years to get around emulating the cell processor bunkum and Square Enix was just saying theres 'something special happening around Niers 10th anniversary' and that game is physical only for ps3. but of course the trouble is why do it when theres no huge ps3 game market to make money off?

[Jtbrig7390]

I think they bought up those streaming services and thought that was the future of games. Clearly enough people have voted with their wallets to say fuuuccckkk that noise.

I expect it to be ps4 on ps5 but if it is ps3 at least i imagine its just taken years to get around emulating the cell processor bunkum and Square Enix was just saying theres 'something special happening around Niers 10th anniversary' and that game is physical only for ps3. but of course the trouble is why do it when theres no huge ps3 game market to make money off?

Oh there is no chance in hell that PS4 games won't work on a PS5. PS4 is booming and selling great but if they announced a PS5 and said it can't play PS4 games everyone (Myself included) would rage.

Those streaming services are the future, But that is a super far away future and it will be awhile before we get there.

PS3 is being emulated on PC at a slow pace right now by random people, I said it before and ill say it again Sony can do it it just has to be worth it for them.

If they want to go into PS5 super strong then they could announce PS1/PS2 BC for PS4 and all BC for PS5. To add if I recall right modder's have already broke into the PS4 system and got it running PS1/PS2 games.

[Tech614]

Well everyone wants it its just been a 'they dont think its worth the dev time and resources' situation. But it is funny timing since yesterday they put a SUB TO PS NOW FUCKER icon on the ps4 dashboard everyone instantly deleted.

Honestly they had a huge win with 'and this is how preowned games work' a few years back. If they just do a firmware update and it emulates ps3 games that would be another "our competiton has SOME backwards compatibility but now ALL ps3 games run on ps4!". Or its ps5 early stuff to ensure this shorter gen remains relevant sales wise.

Rather have a sub to PS Now icon showing up on the home screen then 5 McDonalds and 3 Pizza Hut adds with a sprinkle of Mountain Dew and Dorritos ads when you navigate the page.

Because that's whats on the competition. At least they're advertising their own services and not literally selling out their entire UI to ad companies.

Anyways, Sony went x86 for a reason. They got out of making crazy hardware configs for a reason. This will allow easy backwards compat in future, which is neccesary especially with a digital marketplace.

They might very well be able to make a PS3 emulator if they tried hard enough for PS4 but at what cost would it come? We have seen a very clear drop in first party output on Xbox One once they started devoted resources to recompiling each game on a game by game basis with the Xbox One. That's not a coincidence tbh. It takes man power and money away from other projects.

In the future just be happy Sony is no longer bat shit crazy and everything should be backwards compat from here on out.

Unless we want to complain about complete lack of PS1 BC(which any Sony system post PS1 can do) or the lack of PS2 titles(and you have to rebuy them if owned previously) then I agree. That shit sucks. But the PS3 shit I see the logistics on why it's not happening.

[Jtbrig7390]

Anyways, Sony went x86 for a reason. They got out of making crazy hardware configs for a reason. This will allow easy backwards compat in future, which is neccesary especially with a digital marketplace.

Yep not only is digital the future so is full backwards Compatibility. The only one I think that could get away with not doing BC (and even then may be unlikely) is Nintendo. Many people will not be happy to get a PS5/XB2/Switch 2 and have to ditch there library.

I got a wall full of old games I want to play, Sony just needs to "flip the switch".

Less shit I got to hook to my tv the more happy I am.

[Tech614]

The Switch is the first Nintendo system to not have 1 gen BC since the GC. GBA, DS, Wii, 3DS and Wii U all had at least 1 gen of BC. To me that already shows Nintendo is cool with BC when it takes little effort.

They just completely changed architecture for the Wii U(and thank goodness for that, finally shit modern devs understand easily). With Nvidia talking up a 20 year partnership with Nintendo I think they will stay on the same architecture for a long time and have full BC going forward as well.

It just no longer makes sense to start from scratch with a game library anymore. Both for the console makers themselves and the gamers. Without BC a lot of games on the digital market lose value(like who still buys PS3 or Wii U digital games? probably not many) but if all those games are available day 1 on a new system launch they already supplement the launch library and will be bought for years to come yet.

[Jtbrig7390]

The Switch is the first Nintendo system to not have 1 gen BC since the GC. GBA, DS, Wii, 3DS and Wii U all had at least 1 gen of BC. To me that already shows Nintendo is cool with BC when it takes little effort.

They just completely changed architecture for the Wii U(and thank goodness for that, finally shit modern devs understand easily). With Nvidia talking up a 20 year partnership with Nintendo I think they will stay on the same architecture for a long time and have full BC going forward as well.

Totally agree, Like I said digital is the future and so is full Backwards Compatibility.

Just let me put my disk in and play

[Usagi Senshi]

The Switch is the first Nintendo system to not have 1 gen BC since the GC. GBA, DS, Wii, 3DS and Wii U all had at least 1 gen of BC. To me that already shows Nintendo is cool with BC when it takes little effort.

They just completely changed architecture for the Wii U(and thank goodness for that, finally shit modern devs understand easily). With Nvidia talking up a 20 year partnership with Nintendo I think they will stay on the same architecture for a long time and have full BC going forward as well.

It just no longer makes sense to start from scratch with a game library anymore. Both for the console makers themselves and the gamers. Without BC a lot of games on the digital market lose value(like who still buys PS3 or Wii U digital games? probably not many) but if all those games are available day 1 on a new system launch they already supplement the launch library and will be bought for years to come yet.

Which is why I'm buying a lot of Switch games and nindies(tee hee!), these games should be playable for the next 3-4 console cycles.

[dope_danny]

Okay, wild tinfoil crackpot theory: E3 rolls around and Sony is to reveal their 5th console. 5 is too long in the tooth a number so they do a rebrand. They show the box. Reveal through emulation it plays all 4 previous gens and they go "its the box that plays everything, we call it The Playstation" and its straight up just the same shit as microsofts attempt to make 'the one' a thing and phil spencer just seethes at the audacity of it.

[Jtbrig7390]

Okay, wild tinfoil crackpot theory: E3 rolls around and Sony is to reveal their 5th console. 5 is too long in the tooth a number so they do a rebrand. They show the box. Reveal through emulation it plays all 4 previous gens and they go "its the box that plays everything, we call it The Playstation" and its straight up just the same shit as microsofts attempt to make 'the one' a thing and phil spencer just seethes at the audacity of it.

The next Playstation will not be announced this year at all and likely not next year ether. Sony has many titles coming out this year and announcing a new system will hurt them.

At the earliest we get something on the ass end of 2019 but even then I still say 2020 at lease.

[Tech614]

Okay, wild tinfoil crackpot theory: E3 rolls around and Sony is to reveal their 5th console. 5 is too long in the tooth a number so they do a rebrand. They show the box. Reveal through emulation it plays all 4 previous gens and they go "its the box that plays everything, we call it The Playstation" and its straight up just the same shit as microsofts attempt to make 'the one' a thing and phil spencer just seethes at the audacity of it.

E3 is not a place where systems get announced anymore.

Of the PS4, Xbox One, Nintendo Switch, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X only ONE of those was announced at e3. That being the One X, and because MS literally had nothing in their conference but "hopes for the future 6 tflops bruh!"

Announcing a new system is a big enough deal now it get's it's own event. It doesn't share one with e3.

[Jtbrig7390]

Announcing a new system is a big enough deal now it get's it's own event. It doesn't share one with e3.

Yep and for Playstation that event is now the Playstation Experience and falls in line with my the most early it will be announced is the ass end of 2019.

[dope_danny]

The next Playstation will not be announced this year at all and likely not next year ether. Sony has many titles coming out this year and announcing a new system will hurt them.

Not if its backwards compatible and 'runs in ultra pro mode' on the next system. This is Sony. Its a way to double dip and use stuff like The Last of Us part II as a launch title for it an a PS4 release. Its not the scenario i'd want but i wouldn't put it past them. A lot of folks never bought a pro. Those early adopters are now half a decade in with the ps4 after all.

[Jtbrig7390]

Not if its backwards compatible and 'runs in ultra pro mode' on the next system. This is Sony. Its a way to double dip and use stuff like The Last of Us part II as a launch title for it an a PS4 release. Its not the scenario i'd want but i wouldn't put it past them. A lot of folks never bought a pro. Those early adopters are now half a decade in with the ps4 after all.

They just released the Pro a little over a year ago and have a massive slate of titles coming out over the next year and half. Announcing a system with BC or not will not only hurt the momentum of those games but also piss off Pro owners (Myself included)

The next playstation isn't getting announced this year period.

[Remilia]

So a bit of background for this thing (and also written in the patent). Games on PS4 are programmed in a way that's to the metal with a lot of assumptions to be better optimized. This way it can always guarantee that certain things will be executed in the proper amount of time. So for example Task A can take 40ns of execution and Task B can take 50ns of execution on the PS4 but to run it properly A must take precedent first before B. However with more powerful CPUs and especially changes in architecture, it is very possible that B finishes first before A and then it errors out and bad things start happening.

Now the patent itself. It's not the actual method of backwards compatibility but it does give some insight to what they're trying to do. At the moment all it is is testing software and hardware timings on a specially designed device (PS4 presumably).

"Timing testing mode" as it's referred means it's going to be changing parameters in real time like OS configuration, GPU firmware, cpu clock, cache latency, cache frequency, etc (a whole lot of stuff), to essentially see what breaks. Also the testing hardware will have extra circuits to change IPC to determine their impact. The whole point of this is to disrupt timing of process / threads by modifying basically any aspect of the device and software to record / test for errors that may occur when doing this.


What can be inferred from this is the PS5 or whatever is going to be run as x86 (well duh, granted actually seen people float ARM around for some reason) and natively run the game in a backwards compatibility mode. This means that it won't need to be recompiled, emulated or use a translation layer the latter two causing a high overhead and the former requiring man power. Backwards compatibility mode will presumably be run in which timings would align within the tolerance of the software so that it won't break due to mismatched timings. It in theory should be a more fine grained method of backwards compatibility than the PS4 Pro to PS4 is atm, which is basically disabling the 2nd GPU cluster and down clocking the CPU / GPU.

Would love to see boring Cerny make a talk about this cause it seems very interesting to me.

[Jtbrig7390]

--snip--

A bit of that went a little bit over my head but I get it and I agree that is very interesting. I hope we get more info on it but if we do I don't see it happening anytime soon.

[mvaliz]

I've been saying for a while now that one of Sony's massive reasons of the initial success with the PS2/PS3 was helped by direct backwards compatibility.

Of course, where it all derped up was the design of the PS3 where they decided to go through whole new tech/language that wasn't compatable with mostly standard PC design (PS1/PS2) stuff. Thus they had to basically install a full PS2 to make it backwards compatable - thus making it SUPER expensive!

I also believe this is why the PS4 wasn't compatable with the PS3 - because, going BACK to standard tech design, they couldn't make PS3 compatable with PS4.

But NOW with the PS5...

...if they repeat what they did going from PS1 to PS2 and keep the same basic language design and thus only need a small chip to make compatibility happen with at least PS4.

Then, they can move on again with having a fully backwards compatable series again... at least starting with the PS4 on forward.

Right now this would be the smartest move for them to do, especially since they - once again - have a pretty tight hold on this current generation of gaming.

[Jtbrig7390]

--snip--

If Sony wanted PS3 emulation on PS4 it can be done and its already being done on PC's.

They could just copy how Xbox does it if they really wanted to, But who knows what they want to do.

Fun Fact: All ps3 models can play ps1 games. Just fyi I didn't know until here recent lol.