Vanilla QOL changes

[Kymet]

It's obvious there's a great divide regarding quality of life (or any kind of) changes for the upcoming vanilla servers.
The topic has been widely discussed and the community came up with many ideas.

I don't want to have a discussion on whether or not these changes should be implemented.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on possible changes and why they make sense lorewise or in the rpg world we play in (remember wow is an mmorpg :D).

For example hit rating (something that is in the game but could be removed): it might feel like a useless stat, we got rid of it in WoD and it kinda makes sense as our characters have grown and became more skilled in the art of combat.
At level 60 it's very interesting to play around tho. You might think that after defeating enemies like Nefarian or Ragnaros such a requirement would be silly but think of it this way: acquiring new and more powerful weapons and artifacts doesn't mean you're able to use them perfectly the same day they drop. They are required to progress in more difficult raids/dungeons but we don't become more powerful just by holding them. Also new and more powerful enemies are able to dodge/avoid attacks better than others.

Another (popular) example is LFR (something that is not in the game but could be added): should it be introduced in vanilla? In my opinion vanilla is still a wild world. Everywhere we go enemies are lurking and even at level 60 there are many dangerous zones in the outside world. Professions technology advance is still in its early stages, with a few exceptions. We mostly fight dragons, giant insects, some zombies and powerful magic beings. As a civilization we are still in a primitive state. Personally I see LFR as a technological tool + some magic. After a few expansions and various villains defeated our characters have surely optimized the use of magic and communication technologies, creating a tool that is an improvement of the general chat, but it doesn't fit with the style of the game in vanilla.

I'd love to hear your thoughts :)

[digichi]

There are many shit things in vanilla WoW, which is why the game was changed and developed over the years. But my general stance is, it isn't vanilla:classic/whatever ya wanna call it without the shit stuff

Ninja looting. Eventually you could trade items to party members who were present in a group when you got it (wrath) and eventually we got personal loot (cata, lfr). Would ninja looting be fixed by personal loot in classic? Yes. Would it be a classic experience? Nope.

Class design.There were a handful of OP classes by trade (Mage, rogue) there were the OP classes w/ gear (warriors, shaman) and there were the unplayable classes (everything else?) This is the general idea. But the fun of it is; when most damage specs suck, they are weirdly balanced. My feral Druid can still kill a hunter because I get the upper hand with stealth. A lock could kite a warrior all day long.

There is nowhere we will be able to access this type of simplicity without classic, where class fantasy reigned over mechanics.
(I personally preferred tbc class balancing, but that is not the point of classic and it shouldn't be. Sometimes I play an old GTA game to gain different perspective on the story/graphics ... MMOs cannot do this without projects like this, let it be the same thing.)

[Mirishka]

Because there's not like, 100 topics on this already right?

[Storfan]

No. Changes. Period.

[Snookiwooki]

After the 50th thread pretty much saying the same thing it’s hard to find a fresh way of pointing out the same thing, ultimately if you resurrect a game to give people the experience of playing it as it was, surely keeping the warts is integral to resurrecting that experience (good or bad).

Blizzard would have said they were creating a new version of Vanilla if they were planning on making changes beyond what is needed to easily support it.

[Vorkreist]

It's obvious there's a great divide regarding quality of life (or any kind of) changes for the upcoming vanilla servers.
The topic has been widely discussed and the community came up with many ideas.

I don't want to have a discussion on whether or not these changes should be implemented.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on possible changes and why they make sense lorewise or in the rpg world we play in (remember wow is an mmorpg ).

For example hit rating (something that is in the game but could be removed): it might feel like a useless stat, we got rid of it in WoD and it kinda makes sense as our characters have grown and became more skilled in the art of combat.
At level 60 it's very interesting to play around tho. You might think that after defeating enemies like Nefarian or Ragnaros such a requirement would be silly but think of it this way: acquiring new and more powerful weapons and artifacts doesn't mean you're able to use them perfectly the same day they drop. They are required to progress in more difficult raids/dungeons but we don't become more powerful just by holding them. Also new and more powerful enemies are able to dodge/avoid attacks better than others.

Another (popular) example is LFR (something that is not in the game but could be added): should it be introduced in vanilla? In my opinion vanilla is still a wild world. Everywhere we go enemies are lurking and even at level 60 there are many dangerous zones in the outside world. Professions technology advance is still in its early stages, with a few exceptions. We mostly fight dragons, giant insects, some zombies and powerful magic beings. As a civilization we are still in a primitive state. Personally I see LFR as a technological tool + some magic. After a few expansions and various villains defeated our characters have surely optimized the use of magic and communication technologies, creating a tool that is an improvement of the general chat, but it doesn't fit with the style of the game in vanilla.

I'd love to hear your thoughts

My thought is that you live a very sad and pathetic life since you spam the same troll threads on alts every day.

Fantastic moderation in this section btw.

[Deleted]

Remove or increase the debuff limit.
Update the combat log for better logging of damage/cc's/healing and so on.

- - - Updated - - -

After the 50th thread pretty much saying the same thing it’s hard to find a fresh way of pointing out the same thing, ultimately if you resurrect a game to give people the experience of playing it as it was, surely keeping the warts is integral to resurrecting that experience (good or bad).

Blizzard would have said they were creating a new version of Vanilla if they were planning on making changes beyond what is needed to easily support it.

Blizzard asked people to discuss what they wanted their vanilla experience to be like.

Also despite this site having many vocal purists. purists are actually outnumbered by far. SOurce being blizzards poll that was later taken up by reddit.

[Vorkreist]

Remove or increase the debuff limit.
Update the combat log for better logging of damage/cc's/healing and so on.

- - - Updated - - -



Blizzard asked people to discuss what they wanted their vanilla experience to be like.

Also despite this site having many vocal purists. purists are actually outnumbered by far. SOurce being blizzards poll that was later taken up by reddit.

Are you the main of the troll alts acounts that asks for lfr in vanilla every day?

Also very legit source for a stupid poll. Wow reddit. The cesspool of most brain dead retailer whiteknights in existence.

[Deleted]

Update the combat log for better logging of damage/cc's/healing and so on.

Why? I think Classic was more like about having fun, than analyze combat logs. It was a huge RP.

[Kymet]

My thought is that you live a very sad and pathetic life since you spam the same troll threads on alts every day.

Fantastic moderation in this section btw.

Not an alt, just a long time lurker.
I don't think what I proposed has been discussed yet, but maybe I wasn't clear with my post: in this thread I don't care if vanilla will be changed or not, what I asked for is a discussion on why some parts of the game that seem like bad design actually make sense when thinking about the rpg part of wow. I made two examples but here's a few more that might be added or that have been removed/lost meaning since then: flying, achievements, transmogrification, resistances, armor specialization (cloth, leather, mail, plate), ecc...

[Soon-TM]

No (gameplay altering) changes. Period.

[Niffo]

No. Changes. Period.

Discussion. Forums.

[Anguirel]

Things I'd expect to see:

Some UI updates, particularly those that were possible via add-ons and would be added very quickly now that add-on authors are more savvy as to what is needed or useful. For example, functional default raid frames, proper floating health bars (possibly with debuffs visible), reputation tracking. Probably some of the Social panel and Guild panel updates that aren't also new features. Clearly some B.Net integration.

Obvious bugs that mostly caused people to just need to waste time, or were just obnoxious -- loot lag, crashing from too many players loading in, escort quests getting stuck, ranged mobs attacking from under the world. Also various exploits used by cheaters and farm-bots.

There's a small possibility that some variation on the Pre-made Group Browser (not auto-queue LFD or LFR) might show up, even if it ends up restricted to use only in cities (or local zone). There were some add-ons even in Vanilla that did this via global channels (not well, but they did), and most servers ended up with some variant of a max-level global channel people would join to ping for dungeon groups while they farmed mats -- just tacking on a nicer interface mostly fits the QoL range.

Probably some of the class ability changes will show up day one (e.g. no unlimited charges Reckoning Bomb for killing World Bosses solo).

Things I would not expect to see:

Alteration of stats (probably not even combining +healing/+damage for a while). That's not a QoL change.

Alternate dungeon modes. That's also not a QoL change.

Better item stacking, or larger bags. While this might appear to be a QoL improvement, bag space management had some pretty big gameplay impacts, particularly on classes that had to carry a bunch of items (see in particular: Warlocks, Hunters).

No (gameplay altering) changes. Period.

I'm not sure there really are many entirely-non-gameplay-altering changes. Adding UI features that could have been handled by Add-ons, but were eventually baked in. Features mainly designed to reduce tickets (item restore and loot trading). Client capability to handle flash mobs (see also: Gates of AQ opening) so you don't crash out. They'll all have at least some minor gameplay impact. Even fixing loot bugs, so you can continue to play instead of being stuck loot-lagged for 20 minutes technically alters gameplay.

[zmp]

* I want LFR, Pet battles, Quest helper to tell me where i have to go, WoW tokens so i can get gold, Demon hunters because they are cool, etc *

[Nomads]

People need to start realizing that WoW Classic is essentially and emulator of an older game. No, it won't have QoL features added in. The only question is which patch will it emulate...

Once you accept that, this debate goes away.

[Deficineiron]

Blizzard would have said they were creating a new version of Vanilla if they were planning on making changes beyond what is needed to easily support it.

Actually, the last thing blizzard would ever do is say that this early in the process.

Essentially it would come out as 'We are bringing back classic wow, but we are going to make it a lot more like retail.'

[Soon-TM]

* I want LFR, Pet battles, Quest helper to tell me where i have to go, WoW tokens so i can get gold, Demon hunters because they are cool, etc *

You forgot Pandas, game is unplayable without them

[Hottage]

* I want LFR, Pet battles, Quest helper to tell me where i have to go, WoW tokens so i can get gold, Demon hunters because they are cool, etc *

Quest helpers already existed in Classic...

[Deleted]

Wow classic without naxx-patch, have fun!

[Echocho]

Anything that happened during vanilla and anything that can be made with an addon is fair game in my opinion.

Examples:
* If the max ranked frostbolt had damage values 300, 400 and 500 during vanilla then all those are all okay in the final build of Classic, but 450 isn't.
* If you can auto dismount by using an ability through an addon then that can safely be made an interface option.