No Flying in 8.0 Confirmed

[Teri]

It seems you have never been to Argus. There is a million situations like you describe but in addition to that each ramp is filled with mobs. While in TBC and WoTLK you could FLY.

There's a toy from Argus which reduces your aggro radius so much they won't hit you, so no daze either... you can almost run through them.

Oh did I mention it's a Toy, account-wide, 5 minute cooldown, 10 minute duration.

[Elim Garak]

There's a toy from Argus which reduces your aggro radius so much they won't hit you, so no daze either... you can almost run through them.

Keep missing the point though. When you break a bone there are treatments and eventually you get better. But I'm pretty sure you'd rather not break any bones ever, right?

[riptal]

I'm not sure you read that right. The people who are against flying seem to think they're a majority.

They are probably in majority enjoying playing the way the creator want it to be play. Those who want flying from the start to skip all content are only in majority in forums trolling about anything.

[Katchii]

Argus feels appropriately dangerous IMO, I mean it is the Legion home world. Being able to simply skip over everything by flying would really detract from the imminent danger type feel it has and would also not really feel realistic given how much artillery they have. Granted at some point with gear level, it just feels annoying because you can overpower everything anyway, but I think that particular issue is unavoidable in an MMO with player power progression.

As for flying in general, put Pathfinder total achievement in at the start and not have it be separated by 2-3 patches from launch. I like the achievement unlock and having it apply to every character on the account, I just hate how it seems to be arbitrarily time gated.

[Kanegasi]

with the whistle you had to regrind

rep grind for Alliance players (RIP) to go back and do Argus to unlock Void Elves

Same grind. If you have the whistle, you’re halfway to Void Elves. Maybe you meant Lightforged Draenei?

[Dhrizzle]

What is with the no flying people pretending they're some kind of majority?

It's probably a safe bet as Blizzard are continuing to develop the game for them.

Ofncourse that depends on how you define "no flying people." I've seen then current model described as both pro- and anti-flying depending on the point people are trying to make.

[RoKPaNda]

It's probably a safe bet as Blizzard are continuing to develop the game for them.

The community has been quite vocal about the issue, in favor of flying. Blizzard is opting to go with their own vision of what's best for the game rather than what people want. "LOL DOING IT OUR WAY!" was the Blizzard stance in WoD and they only caved with the release of Tanaan because of the community backlash.

[Zantos]

As long as they dont make questing on the ground just painful, I don't mind. Reduce the number of stuns. Its not fun or engaging.

My main gripe is that flying being locked behind a rep is poor design to cover up the lack of any reason to deal with that rep otherwise. Give us a reason to want to do the rep grind other then flying. Flying shouldn't be the primary reason to mess with them.

[Vrothgar]

Thank Blizz we will appreciate zones before we will fly away

[Mafic]

Well, these aren't vanilla maps, they are Legion maps. I don't see any problem with navigating Argus, it's a l2p issue imho. Not really sure what you mean by turning WoW into a moba, it's literally impossible. Again, people aren't pigeonholed into enjoying just one genre. Obviously people who play WoW like mmo's, otherwise they would't be playing it.

Again, explain why Argus' layout was a failure besides 'cause I said so.' There is absolutely no difficulty or challenge getting from any point to another in a reasonable point. It's no Blade's Edge Mountains where your destination might be 100 feet from you, but you have to cross half the zone to find a hidden ramp to get up to the correct level. Or Howling Fjord where your destination is half a mile up and you need to go half a mile that way to find the elevator, then half a mile back to your destination. BC and Wrath had zones much more difficult to navigate than Argus is, so I'm baffled by the hostility.

The vertical scaling of Argus while restricting player movement on each terrace with purposefully designed terrain to hinder movement and mob density. I could write a entire book on what is wrong with the MOBA maps of Argus.

WoW is being pushed into a MMO direction when its roots are a MMORPG. Vanilla maps had relationships being adjacent to one another while Argus maps are literally their own instances with no relation to one another other than for story related reasons.

I have designed better maps in a map editor than what was presented with Argus maps.

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Same grind. If you have the whistle, you’re halfway to Void Elves. Maybe you meant Lightforged Draenei?

No because no one knew the exact requirements for Void Elves when Argus was released or even the existence of Allied Races being part of the unlock for many months. And also no one knew ahead of time they would gate the flying whistle on Argus. Regrinding what you already earned on Broken Isles (Flight Whistle) and then forcing players to re earn on Argus shows how desperate Blizz has become to increase MAU

It has nothing to do wit preserving the integrity of game play or enriching the play experience.

That is why that is one other bullet point for the pro flight crowd to point to when the anti flyers talking about breaking immersion.

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There's a toy from Argus which reduces your aggro radius so much they won't hit you, so no daze either... you can almost run through them.

Oh did I mention it's a Toy, account-wide, 5 minute cooldown, 10 minute duration.

More gimmicks that don't improve the player experience.

Who is going to bother with such a toy when they could avoid going to Argus outright?

[Dhrizzle]

The community has been quite vocal about the issue, in favor of flying. Blizzard is opting to go with their own vision of what's best for the game rather than what people want. "LOL DOING IT OUR WAY!" was the Blizzard stance in WoD and they only caved with the release of Tanaan because of the community backlash.

"The community" has been vocal on a lot of things over the years, but forum noise doesn't necessarily translate to what the players actually want. Clearly the grumbles about having to wait for a later patch didn't register as a major issue for Blizzard, whereas the grumbles about not getting flight at all resulted in a reversal of the decision. People have been grumbling about having to wait for flight since they announced the intent late MoP, but clearly the grumbles don't match up with whatever metrics Blizz use.

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The vertical scaling of Argus while restricting player movement on each terrace with purposefully designed terrain to hinder movement and mob density. I could write a entire book on what is wrong with the MOBA maps of Argus.

Out of interest, what MOBA do you play that puts an emphasis on verticality and exploration over the simple design where the path to the enemy base is usually quite straight forward?

WoW is being pushed into a MMO direction when its roots are a MMORPG. Vanilla maps had relationships being adjacent to one another while Argus maps are literally their own instances with no relation to one another other than for story related reasons.

It should be quite clear that Argus is more of an exception than the rule. TBC, WotLK, MoP, WoD and Legion all had connected zones for the main landmass, and of those TBC, MoP and Legion all added extra places that were unrelated. If you think this is what changes the definition of a MMORPG to a MMO then it's a change WoW made with the first expansion at the time they introduced flight.

[Teri]

More gimmicks that don't improve the player experience.

Who is going to bother with such a toy when they could avoid going to Argus outright?

It still helps the players that don't whine about every little zone without flying, and let them deal with ground-based mob packs by ignoring 100% of the mobs that are apparently covering every pixel of the screen.


I guess those same people want flying in Raids too, to skip to the end boss? /s

[RoKPaNda]

"The community" has been vocal on a lot of things over the years, but forum noise doesn't necessarily translate to what the players actually want. Clearly the grumbles about having to wait for a later patch didn't register as a major issue for Blizzard, whereas the grumbles about not getting flight at all resulted in a reversal of the decision. People have been grumbling about having to wait for flight since they announced the intent late MoP, but clearly the grumbles don't match up with whatever metrics Blizz use.

Blizzard has told us repeatedly on flying it's not about what players want, it's about what Blizzard wants.

[Dhrizzle]

Blizzard has told us repeatedly on flying it's not about what players want, it's about what Blizzard wants.

Yet they rapidly abandoned plans to keep flying out of the game entirely so they clearly aim for some sort of balance between what they want to develop and what people want to play.

[Zantos]

Yet they rapidly abandoned plans to keep flying out of the game entirely so they clearly aim for some sort of balance between what they want to develop and what people want to play.

Or the fact that they sell multiple flying mounts in their in game store and they know sales would plummet if suddenly, half the utility of these mounts vanished. Not to mention all of the angry customers who already purchased mount in their store just for half of its functionality to be removed. They simply cannot remove flying at this point. People have invested real money on items meant to be able to fly.

[SpellCleave]

first I'm going to help your idea by trimming the duration down to 2 hours at most.

Second it won't work. have a nice day

Well, duh

[Teetster]

Not buying BFA at least till 8.2 confirmed. If they will lie about "better timing", i.e. earlier release of flying, I won't buy it at all. Go to hell, Blizzard.

Same, if I bother at all.

I used to be die hard into WoW through WoTLK, then Cata happened and I took the first long break I ever did from the game. WoD sounded awful and the whole no flying thing pissed me off so I did not buy until well into the expansion and even then only subbed for a couple months. Legion was sort of better - I bought at release stuck around for a couple months and left.

I came back to MMOC today to see what was happening with the new expansion, saw this thread and Ion's quote and I guess this expansion will be the same, if I buy it at all. I've been unused for months now and don't have the itch to come back. In fact any itch I had is gone now that I know I have to deal with more stupid ass gating.

So yeah, if Blizzard is wondering why people aren't actively complaining as much about no-flying anymore its because we all left. We were the 4 to 5 million people you lost during WoD.

I'm in my 40's now. I don't want another freaking grind in my life. I want to play a game and enjoy it. I don't need tedious time wasting and gating for gating's sake.

I hate LFR gating for the same reason. Why the hell do I have to wait a month to raid the same raid the mythic bros get to raid on release? As a customer of Blizzard's for 20+ years now, I've outlasted almost everyone else I used to play with. So LFR is it for me raiding wise. And this is the bull shit I have to deal with? That's why my sub is inactive.

[WowIsDead64]

Same, if I bother at all.

I used to be die hard into WoW through WoTLK, then Cata happened and I took the first long break I ever did from the game. WoD sounded awful and the whole no flying thing pissed me off so I did not buy until well into the expansion and even then only subbed for a couple months. Legion was sort of better - I bought at release stuck around for a couple months and left.

I came back to MMOC today to see what was happening with the new expansion, saw this thread and Ion's quote and I guess this expansion will be the same, if I buy it at all. I've been unused for months now and don't have the itch to come back. In fact any itch I had is gone now that I know I have to deal with more stupid ass gating.

So yeah, if Blizzard is wondering why people aren't actively complaining as much about no-flying anymore its because we all left. We were the 4 to 5 million people you lost during WoD.

I'm in my 40's now. I don't want another freaking grind in my life. I want to play a game and enjoy it. I don't need tedious time wasting and gating for gating's sake.

I hate LFR gating for the same reason. Why the hell do I have to wait a month to raid the same raid the mythic bros get to raid on release? As a customer of Blizzard's for 20+ years now, I've outlasted almost everyone else I used to play with. So LFR is it for me raiding wise. And this is the bull shit I have to deal with? That's why my sub is inactive.

As for me, flying isn't about making game easier. It's about mixing RPG genre with Adventure genre, I personally don't like. Some players like Adventure genre, some don't. I don't like Adventure games, like Metroid. They're way too boring for me. And I think, that there is nothing bad in not liking Adventure genre, as Wow is still called MMORPG for reason. So, in my opinion, Adventure elements should be 100% optional. Bad thing - Wow becomes less and less RPG and more and more Adventure. And Adventure elements are now forced. I do, what I can, to avoid them, but Blizzard invent more and more advanced methods of forcing them. And my patience isn't infinite. Some people say "Pathfinder isn't so bad". Initially my opinion was "No, I'm sure it's bad, so I won't even try to do it", but I thought, that I might be wrong about it and decided to determine it by myself in Legion. And yeah, it's bad. I've done it in Legion, but I'm not going to do it in BFA, if Blizzard won't change it to be real compromise between pro-flyers and anti-flyers. Cuz compromise - is when both sides sacrifice something to achieve common goal. When some players can play in actual content, when it's released, and other players are forced to always play obsoleted content - it's not compromise, sorry. It's discrimination.

Conclusion: for me Wow is Mulgore, Barrens, Tanaris - not some kind of Tomb Rider Online. Blizzard should make content ground friendly or return flying for players, who want to avoid Adventure elements, like jump puzzles. Jump puzzles are popular in Korean MMOs, but they have nothing to do with RPGs.

[TheRainman]

The community has been quite vocal about the issue, in favor of flying. Blizzard is opting to go with their own vision of what's best for the game rather than what people want. "LOL DOING IT OUR WAY!" was the Blizzard stance in WoD and they only caved with the release of Tanaan because of the community backlash.

Speak for yourself. I prefer it this way, and apparently so do a large number of people in this thread.

[Oneirophobia]

I think it's lazy game design to patch out flying while there could be so much content with flying.

There are a lot of possible solutions with flying being activated.

No matter if this echo chamber thread parrots the same praise for removing flying over and over.

I agree, if they designed some zones vertically they could do some real interesting stuff.


Having said that, flying is very over powered. It removes all risk and interaction with the world and with the ENORMOUS speed it grants it makes it feel like the world dramatically shrinks.

They should have stuck with basic ground mount speed for max flight speed if they refused to do vertical design.