The Alliance and Jaina going into BfA

[GreenJesus]

Varian's death certainly hardened him, not to mention he probably is still under the impression Sylvannas betrayed the Alliance at the Broken shore, plus the Horde seizing this WMD substance and Teldrassil being the catalyst of that - he's probably done with the Horde's apathy to his hope for peace, or maybe he thinks peace is impossible with Sylvanas at the helm of the Horde.

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This is an adult human being. I love this forum.

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Alleria has been in the game for 1 patch and has had more screen time and impact on the story that any blood elf lol

Her impact on the story is sucking Anduin's cock. Emo elves don't exist and should have never been a thing.

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#SylvanasDidNothingWrong #Garroshdidnothingwrong #TheramoreShouldHaveBeenBombedYearsAgo #AllianceFags #ItWasWorthIt #BloodandThunder #RIPMMOchampFor1Week

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You really are a passionate lil Horde player aint you?

You may say those thing's but y'know what I don't care have fun with that lil fantasy in your head because I think that's about as far as it will go.

You may say that, but I am sure there is some rule 34 out there that is outside my head.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Alleria has been in the game for 1 patch and has had more screen time and impact on the story that any blood elf lol

You can't possibly say that seriously from the unbiased view you claim to have.

[Seylene]

Well before something bad goes off someone should explain. Jaina absolutely did -Not- kill all the Bloodelves in Dalaran the scenario is bugged as admitted to by Blizzard the elemental triggers her attack. In the story itself outside of Aethas's guards Jaina did not kill any bloodelves they are IMPRISONED.

However the High elves in the sewer DID take the opportunity to take revenge on their kin who banished them and killed a few. But if you expect elves not to be revenge happy then I don't know what to tell you hun.

[Niroshi]

She didn't leave because the Alliance wouldn't attack the Horde, they clearly had no problem doing that in Stormheim. She left because she was positive the Horde would betray them all again and she didn't want to be around when it happened. She gave her warning and everyone ignored it, so she fucked off.

[Pucek]

She didn't leave because the Alliance wouldn't attack the Horde, they clearly had no problem doing that in Stormheim. She left because she was positive the Horde would betray them all again and she didn't want to be around when it happened. She gave her warning and everyone ignored it, so she fucked off.

Exactly, she left Dalaran not because Alliance would not attack the Horde but because she didn't feel like being stabbed in the back by Horde while working with them again.

[Shibito]

Exactly, she left Dalaran not because Alliance would not attack the Horde but because she didn't feel like being stabbed in the back by Horde while working with them again.

She left cause she pmsed and couldnt murder horde children

[Mehrunes]

People throwing words like "Genocide" while all she did was incarcerate the members of a faction that betrayed their city-host, a city she was at the time leader of, and kill the ones stupid enough to resist.

Regarding the rest, I am pretty sure Blizzard will give at least some mention of what she was doing.

She purged the city of Blood Elves. That's literally ethnic/political cleansing. The closest crime to genocide there is. And the leader of the Kirin Tor has no such power. They don't even have the power to cast the tie-breaking vote if there's an impasse in the Council of Six. All they are is a representative to other nations. Also, Jaina betrayed Dalaran first, so even if she had the right to purge anyone, she should have started with herself.

Also, lel at blaming the victims of collective punishment (where the punishment is fucking ethnic/political cleansing) based on Jaina's hypocrisy and abuse of power. The faction of justice right here.

Compare apples to oranges all you like, I am telling you a single faction betrayed the hospitality of a single city and upon being banished, whomever resisted was killed. There were innocents caught in the middle of this too, but they belonged to the faction-betrayer, and in such cases you cannot trust them to stay all fine and dandy when some of their friends are ousted from the city.

Jaina did not go on a rampage afterwards to murder every single blood elf possible, by, like, trying to drop a mana bomb on Silvermoon or anything.

No, a faction did not betray the hospitality of the city. A single Sunreaver agent did. After Jaina already broke Dalaran's neutrality and turned it into the enemy of the Horde. And yay for more victim blaming.

Sure, let's leave away the fact that the Sunreavers were asked to leave the city beforehand and that Aethas refused, and also that compliant Sunreavers were imprisoned.

Yep, Killed every single blood elf there was in cold blood. That's why Sunreavers are in Dalaran once again, led by the same person.

Let's also leave away the fact that she had no right to ask them to leave in the first place. Which is why she used Vereesa's goons and Stormwind troops to carry out the purge rather than the Kirin Tor. Or the fact that the Silver Covenant most certainly was killing people in cold blood, which Jaina should have anticipated. Also, I'm not saying Jaina killed every single Blood Elf there in cold blood, but pointing out that there are Sunreavers in Dalaran there once again isn't the counterargument to that point you think it is, given how Horde forces helped some escape.

[Austilias]

I'd be hard pressed to believe that everyone is just going to be fine with her waltzing back in after she turned her back on Azeroth during their most desperate time of need...literally, one of the most powerful mortal mages just leaves before the storm. I don't care what she was doing while she was away. Her help was desperately needed as Azeroth was being plunged into chaos.

You know, it's possible that what is/was happening on Kul Tiras was bigger than what happened elsewhere (Eg. Argus). We don't know yet.

I mean she's been batshit crazy the past few expansions. She even practically called for the genocide of Blood Elves in Dalaran! I'm pretty sure the other Alliance leaders should've been more critical of her, maybe even denounced her and her actions, yet they're just all bffs, fine and dandy.

What are you talking about? Her actions over the past few expansions have been entirely reasonable/understandable.

[Mehrunes]

She imprisioned the blood elves. Only those who resisted were killed (at least officially).
I'm not saying she was right, of course. But bending the lore isn't going to get you anywhere.

Yeah, I'm sure the guys in the Underbelly, like a Sunreaver fed to the shark, were killed only because they resisted arrest and not because Jaina willingly let Blood Elf-hating fanatics loose on the Sunreavers.

Varian's death certainly hardened him, not to mention he probably is still under the impression Sylvannas betrayed the Alliance at the Broken shore, plus the Horde seizing this WMD substance and Teldrassil being the catalyst of that - he's probably done with the Horde's apathy to his hope for peace, or maybe he thinks peace is impossible with Sylvanas at the helm of the Horde.

And why would he still be under that impression (which is faulty even with the information available to the Alliance at the Broken Shore itself) after Detheroc and his influence over SI:7 have been unmasked?

Alleria has been in the game for 1 patch and has had more screen time and impact on the story that any blood elf lol

Impartial poster right here.

[Aeula]

She’s Alliance, so she gets a free pass whenever she does something evil or petty.

So I expect everyone will forget how she abandoned them.

[Pheraz]

I really need to do that Scenario again it was so enjoyable killing Blood Elves that resisted arrest.

Where can I repeat this scenario? I would love and enjoy this, too. Not kidding.

[Deleted]

You can't possibly say that seriously from the unbiased view you claim to have.

Well, she did inadvertently consume a naaru, then went on to co-create and lead a new kind of elf race.

[Combatbutler]

Well, she did inadvertently consume a naaru, then went on to co-create and lead a new kind of elf race.

Alleria did not create the void elves, Durzaan did. She was just there and was teaching them afterwards. To be honest while Alleria has vast potential so far she hasn't done much to outshine established blood elf characters.

OT

I am kinda interested what Jaina had been up to and what she did during the whole legion invasion, otherwise it seems she has taken up the habit of the Kirin tor to ditch their allies if it is inconvenient.

[Deleted]

She purged the city of Blood Elves. That's literally ethnic/political cleansing. The closest crime to genocide there is. And the leader of the Kirin Tor has no such power. They don't even have the power to cast the tie-breaking vote if there's an impasse in the Council of Six. All they are is a representative to other nations. Also, Jaina betrayed Dalaran first, so even if she had the right to purge anyone, she should have started with herself.

Also, lel at blaming the victims of collective punishment (where the punishment is fucking ethnic/political cleansing) based on Jaina's hypocrisy and abuse of power. The faction of justice right here.




No, a faction did not betray the hospitality of the city. A single Sunreaver agent did. After Jaina already broke Dalaran's neutrality and turned it into the enemy of the Horde. And yay for more victim blaming.




Let's also leave away the fact that she had no right to ask them to leave in the first place. Which is why she used Vereesa's goons and Stormwind troops to carry out the purge rather than the Kirin Tor. Or the fact that the Silver Covenant most certainly was killing people in cold blood, which Jaina should have anticipated. Also, I'm not saying Jaina killed every single Blood Elf there in cold blood, but pointing out that there are Sunreavers in Dalaran there once again isn't the counterargument to that point you think it is, given how Horde forces helped some escape.

Lol @Jaina being the one who breaks Dalaran neutrality. I remember after Theramore blew up she also blew a gasket and initially went to Dalaran to plead it go to war against the horde, but calmed down and stayed neutral as leader of the Kirin Tor, until the horde abused this neutrality along with the Sunreavers. Remember, Aethas knew of the plan to steal the divine bell, but turned a blind eye on it, and then refused to leave on his own.

Regarding your proposed fact that Jaina has no right, as leader of the Kirin Tor and ruler of Dalaran, to evict the Sunreavers for a crime committed, I believe she actually did, as the Kirin Tor followed her willingly later on in the campaign against the Thunder king. If she had no right, the council of six would have overruled her, which is an entirely different can of worms as Aethas was then a member of the Council and acted against Dalaran's neutrality himself.

With all this noted, claiming "Genocide" is pure bullshit and I suggest opening up Wikipedia to see what Genocide actually means. She evicted all horde of Dalaran regardless of race and killed those who resisted. Those who didn't were teleported to the Violet Hold. The Sunreavers just so happened to be the main horde faction in Dalaran. Jaina did not later on go on an anti-blood elven crusade either, so I do not think this qualifies as a genocide. A purge, yes, but genocide, no.

[Combatbutler]

Lol @Jaina being the one who breaks Dalaran neutrality. I remember after Theramore blew up she also blew a gasket and initially went to Dalaran to plead it go to war against the horde, but calmed down and stayed neutral as leader of the Kirin Tor, until the horde abused this neutrality along with the Sunreavers. Remember, Aethas knew of the plan to steal the divine bell, but turned a blind eye on it, and then refused to leave on his own.

To be honest Jaina and Aethas broke neutrality on several occasions by helping out their favored faction with their war efforts, Aethas helping with the sha, Jaina helping to shore up the defenses of darnassus . Both actions directly interfered in the war and were a breach of neutrality.

[Mehrunes]

Lol @Jaina being the one who breaks Dalaran neutrality. I remember after Theramore blew up she also blew a gasket and initially went to Dalaran to plead it go to war against the horde, but calmed down and stayed neutral as leader of the Kirin Tor, until the horde abused this neutrality along with the Sunreavers. Remember, Aethas knew of the plan to steal the divine bell, but turned a blind eye on it, and then refused to leave on his own.

She went to Darnassus and aided the Night Elves by personally capturing or killing (depends on what her traps did) Horde soldiers from the diversion force trying to enter the city. It's her own words against yours. And aiding one party to war in a military action against the other is textbook breach of neutrality. And since you brought up Tides of War, let's go to the time before Theramore was destroyed. When Pained suggested that Jaina should ask the Kirin Tor to help in Theramore's defense, Jaina herself said that'd be asking them to break their neutrality. And Kirin Tor did less in Theramore than Jaina did in Darnassus. Once again, her own words against yours.

So you can lol all you want. It won't be the first time you're utterly ignorant about legal and political concepts.

Regarding your proposed fact that Jaina has no right, as leader of the Kirin Tor and ruler of Dalaran, to evict the Sunreavers for a crime committed, I believe she actually did, as the Kirin Tor followed her willingly later on in the campaign against the Thunder king. If she had no right, the council of six would have overruled her, which is an entirely different can of worms as Aethas was then a member of the Council and acted against Dalaran's neutrality himself.

Then let's go back to Tides of War again. The Kirin Tor voted twice on the matter of helping Theramore. The first time the vote was split with 3 votes for and 3 votes against. Rhonin's vote didn't break the tie. They had to vote again. And when Kirin Tor tried to apprehend Kel'thuzad? Whoopty doo, it wasn't just Anthonidas, but 3 members of the Council working together.

What does the Kirin Tor following her in Isle of Thunder change here? They were already the enemy of the Horde at the time, actively aided by Stormwind in the Purge. They were put in a done situation.

With all this noted, claiming "Genocide" is pure bullshit and I suggest opening up Wikipedia to see what Genocide actually means. She evicted all horde of Dalaran regardless of race and killed those who resisted. Those who didn't were teleported to the Violet Hold. The Sunreavers just so happened to be the main horde faction in Dalaran. Jaina did not later on go on an anti-blood elven crusade either, so I do not think this qualifies as a genocide. A purge, yes, but genocide, no.

Which is why I didn't claim genocide. Only ethnic/political cleansing. Which is what a purge, the thing you admitted she has done, is a fucking synonym for. Reading hard. So I suggest you visit the nearest kindergarten and ask a teacher there to help you out.

Alleria did not create the void elves, Durzaan did. She was just there and was teaching them afterwards. To be honest while Alleria has vast potential so far she hasn't done much to outshine established blood elf characters.

And even her own Void-ification was a result of her listening to what Locus Walker told her to do.

[Deleted]

She went to Darnassus and aided the Night Elves by personally capturing or killing (depends on what her traps did) Horde soldiers from the diversion force trying to enter the city. It's her own words against yours. And aiding one party to war in a military action against the other is textbook breach of neutrality. And since you brought up Tides of War, let's go to the time before Theramore was destroyed. When Pained suggested that Jaina should ask the Kirin Tor to help in Theramore's defense, Jaina herself said that'd be asking them to break their neutrality. And Kirin Tor did less in Theramore than Jaina did in Darnassus. Once again, her own words against yours.

So you can lol all you want. It won't be the first time you're utterly ignorant about legal and political concepts.




Then let's go back to Tides of War again. The Kirin Tor voted twice on the matter of helping Theramore. The first time the vote was split with 3 votes for and 3 votes against. Rhonin's vote didn't break the tie. They had to vote again. And when Kirin Tor tried to apprehend Kel'thuzad? Whoopty doo, it wasn't just Anthonidas, but 3 members of the Council working together.

What does the Kirin Tor following her in Isle of Thunder change here? They were already the enemy of the Horde at the time, actively aided by Stormwind in the Purge. They were put in a done situation.




Which is why I didn't claim genocide. Only ethnic/political cleansing. Which is what a purge, the thing you admitted she has done, is a fucking synonym for. Reading hard. So I suggest you visit the nearest kindergarten and ask a teacher there to help you out.




And even her own Void-ification was a result of her listening to what Locus Walker told her to do.

Look mate, The only thing that bothers me is that some people are over-sensationalist in their use of "Genocide", while in fact it was exactly, as stated by you, political cleansing. Political cleansing of a faction that betrayed the city and just so happened to be comprised mostly of blood elves.

Was that an overreaction? Could be. But Jaina was not to give the Horde any leeway after what happened at Theramore.

[Highwhale]

Actually its Anduin who ask Jaina for help. Alliance needs Kul Tiras fleet and Jaina their best shot to get it.

Also in the end she was right - Horde did attack Alliance after Legion.

[Combatbutler]

Actually its Anduin who ask Jaina for help. Alliance needs Kul Tiras fleet and Jaina their best shot to get it.

Also in the end she was right - Horde did attack Alliance after Legion.

I'd say Anduin should have chosen a different envoy for Kul'tiras, considering Jainas history with her father. It is a rather nice touch that Jainas mother is still very pissed and exiles Jaina.

[Highwhale]

I'd say Anduin should have chosen a different envoy for Kul'tiras, considering Jainas history with her father. It is a rather nice touch that Jainas mother is still very pissed and exiles Jaina.

Yea. But in Anduin's mind Jaina was best shot. He probably didn't know that she helped orcs to kill Daelin.