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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    Consider the following scenarios.

    HTML Code:
    * Gold farmer on your server farms 1000g
    * You pay gold farmer 15 dollars for that gold
    HTML Code:
    * Random guy on your server farms 1000g
    * You buy a WoW token for 15 dollars
    * You trade the random guy the WoW token in exchange for the gold

    In both these cases no gold has magically been created on the server, it has been farmed by someone. Can this ruin the economy, if so how?

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    Just to clarify I'm not saying 3rd party gold farmers are good in any way, the WoW token along with botting countermeasures effectively killed off the whole "industry". In the case of the WoW token an actual human being has to farm the gold, illegal farmers won't do it since game time added to their account isn't profit.

    So my question is really, how does the WoW token ruin the economy if instead of farming the gold myself the guy next to me does it for me?
    There are 3 problems with the Farmer getting the money.

    First obviously is that blizzard is not gaining anything (gold farmer gets the money, you get the gold, blizzard doesn't gain anything). With the token controlled by blizzard they get a bonus since the token costs 20 euros and 13 euro from the token are also converted into blizzard balance so all of that stays in. In the first case the gold farmer who got 15 dollars can do anything with them.

    Second is the scam. When not controlled by the system some people will inevitably get scammed. You pay the money to the farmer but there's no guarantee that you'll get anything.

    Third is that most "gold farmers" do not get gold legitimately but instead get it by using bots or by hacking accounts which may end up with it getting removed.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Goondicker View Post
    A very big part of Vanilla is that you earn what you have. With so much of Vanilla character progression centered around gold, I think the token would hurt the game.

    I understand the argument that if there's no token, people will just buy from gold sellers. I think that is largely blown out of proportion, as most who use the token now have never bought from gold sellers.

    I think fighting this with bans on both sellers and buyers is a good enough course of action. Some people will slip through the cracks, but I still think this is a better situation than having a token introduced.

    That said, I'm totally fine with a token being used for a Classic-WoW sub if it's bought with BfA gold, since that doesn't impact the Vanilla economy.
    100% this. I guess a lot of people don't understand how poor 90% of the vanilla population will be. That's part of the game. Allowing them to buy gold for real money spoils it.

    PServers just ban Chinese IP addresses which cuts down on a lot of farmers and then perma-ban anyone who buys or sells gold. Simple. If they can do it, then so can Blizz

  3. #103
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaelexi View Post
    Yet gold buying spam is down, people buying gold from other sources is down and WoW tokens are flying off the shelves.
    People buying gold from 3rd parties combined with buying other services from them either with real money or gold is up, this started mostly at the start of legion. Gold was selling well so a lot of places started accepting gold as a payment for other services. This itself led to a spot where for a while gold was 50% cheaper than in tokens.

  4. #104
    WoW Token aren't gonna happen on Classic, Forget it.

    tbh I *might* be for them if they would remove the Spammers, but as we see on live, this ain't Happening. They are still offering all kinds of boost Services and are selling Gold.

  5. #105
    Stood in the Fire Dudas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    WoW Token aren't gonna happen on Classic, Forget it.

    tbh I *might* be for them if they would remove the Spammers, but as we see on live, this ain't Happening. They are still offering all kinds of boost Services and are selling Gold.
    They certainly are. Wow tokens are doing great at the moment. Plenty of people prefer farming some gold so they can play for another month. Hell I have friend that have bought so many tokens they can play the game for two more years.

    And there are people that don't want to farm gold so they would just give 20 dollars to blizz and have no issues with gold ingame. It doesn't change your immersion or anything. And it has little impact on economy gamewise. Farmer John will still farm gold. Casual pleb will pay for gold ingame and prefers it that way since he won't get scammed.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Dudas View Post
    They certainly are. Wow tokens are doing great at the moment. Plenty of people prefer farming some gold so they can play for another month. Hell I have friend that have bought so many tokens they can play the game for two more years.

    And there are people that don't want to farm gold so they would just give 20 dollars to blizz and have no issues with gold ingame. It doesn't change your immersion or anything. And it has little impact on economy gamewise. Farmer John will still farm gold. Casual pleb will pay for gold ingame and prefers it that way since he won't get scammed.
    I completely disagree with your statement that it has a little impact on the economy actually... or well it's not my opinion, but a fact: The tokens did have a massive impact on the ingame economy. Even though Gold income in general has been massively nerfed since WoD (smaller and less Gold rewards ingame) the Prices of basically everything have skyrocketed: be it items in the auction house, or boost Services.

    Players have now a quick, safe and easy way to get 300k gold (on EU), which is obviously inflating the economy.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    WoW Token aren't gonna happen on Classic, Forget it.
    I think it might, simply because Blizzard don't want 3rd party gold sites to return and flourish. Realistically I think we should hope for alterations to the WoW token so that it doesn't affect the server economy more than it has to.

  8. #108
    Stood in the Fire Dudas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    I completely disagree with your statement that it has a little impact on the economy actually... or well it's not my opinion, but a fact: The tokens did have a massive impact on the ingame economy. Even though Gold income in general has been massively nerfed since WoD (smaller and less Gold rewards ingame) the Prices of basically everything have skyrocketed: be it items in the auction house, or boost Services.

    Players have now a quick, safe and easy way to get 300k gold (on EU), which is obviously inflating the economy.
    The boosts have always been expensive even before tokens were introduced. And if things are more expensive in auction house that's not bad. That also means if you are selling stuff you will be making more gold from it also... So it balances out. You sell for more, you buy for more. It doesn't matter if it's 3gold or 3k gold. Just bigger numbers but the scale is the same on the buy/sell ratio.
    Last edited by Dudas; 2018-03-08 at 01:14 PM.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    I completely disagree with your statement that it has a little impact on the economy actually... or well it's not my opinion, but a fact: The tokens did have a massive impact on the ingame economy. Even though Gold income in general has been massively nerfed since WoD (smaller and less Gold rewards ingame) the Prices of basically everything have skyrocketed: be it items in the auction house, or boost Services.

    Players have now a quick, safe and easy way to get 300k gold (on EU), which is obviously inflating the economy.
    The main difference between Legion and Classic is that you have so many safe and lucrative ways to farm gold in Legion. Soloing old raids for example. In vanilla there aren't that many ways to farm gold, and on pvp servers it's definitely not safe. So you would have to work a lot harder for your gold which in turn would dictate how much a wow token would be worth.

    If a token costs 20 dollars and on your server you'll only get 200 gold for it it might not be worth it for a lot of people.

  10. #110
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    I don’t understand, you want token in Vanilla?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    The main difference between Legion and Classic is that you have so many safe and lucrative ways to farm gold in Legion. Soloing old raids for example. In vanilla there aren't that many ways to farm gold, and on pvp servers it's definitely not safe. So you would have to work a lot harder for your gold which in turn would dictate how much a wow token would be worth.

    If a token costs 20 dollars and on your server you'll only get 200 gold for it it might not be worth it for a lot of people.
    If with 200 gold you can get the raiding flasks for a month it will be worth for many. Or if takes you a week of farm to make 200gold, people will prefer buying it/selling it. Cause one will grind a week for a month of subscription. And the rich one will rather play the game and not bother with 1 week of grind. Hell people still change iphones every year and there is not a single meaningful upgrade worth the 1k$ ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I don’t understand, you want token in Vanilla?
    I don't care about it but I think they will add it since there isn't a reason not to from a business perspective. More money for blizz means they will add it.

  12. #112
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vineri View Post
    It is Blizzard's job to prevent P2W gold buying, or at least make it inconvenient, not to fully endorse it. Gold means power in Vanilla. From PVP to PVE.

    Selling tokens might be acceptable for a lower grade F2P game, but not one with a subscription cost. It's not fair to everyone else who spends lots of time farming materials, affording potions, buying recipes, gear, bags, etc. Vanilla needs to have a fair playing field, or it's not Vanilla.

    I think Blizzard should just perma ban any account that receives gold from know gold sellers. My enthusiasm will fade rapidly if tokens go into Vanilla.

    Besides, if someone wants game time, they can farm gold in BFA and buy tokens there.
    vanilla didn't have a fair playing field so why should a recreation have one

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    Having an experience in illegal activity is not something to brag about.
    Since it wasn't criminal i don't see the problem. Unless you are Gandhi or similar extreme high morale person you most likely have done something that society consider unethical or something that breaks civil law at some point and gained knowledge due to it

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    actually they wont Embriel, becuase there is no way for them to turn that gold into real life money, they can turn it into Bnet currency, but then they cant transfer that to real life money.'
    so no, wowtokens would shut down the illegal gold market, not make chinese farmers even higher.
    bnet currency with which they buy something they can sell for real money somewhere or something they can sell for something else that can then be converted to cash.
    Only way bnet currency would shut it down would be if everything you could get for it was online and bound to your account and then only maybe

  13. #113
    An important distinction is bots can farm without concern for eating, sleeping, or human decency. They were much more disruptive to the game environment.

  14. #114
    Why is there a thread about wow tokens in classic? There will never be tokens added into that version of the game, this is nonsense and a waste of bandwidth.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by LoveLove View Post
    People buying gold from 3rd parties combined with buying other services from them either with real money or gold is up, this started mostly at the start of legion. Gold was selling well so a lot of places started accepting gold as a payment for other services. This itself led to a spot where for a while gold was 50% cheaper than in tokens.
    Buying services with gold is up yes, as Blizzard has cracked down on real money transactions. But selling stuff for gold has been around since Vanilla, Deus Vox sold gear from BWL and AQ40 once it was cleared, I sold War Bear runs ZA in both expansions, my guild sold kills on Vashj and Kael for keying other guilds. We would sell 5 spots per week and this has continued through every xpac. So yes I see lots of people posting selling runs, I am one of them selling either +15 runs or selling Heroic raid carries, but with the garrison 2.0 you can make 100k+ a week if you have some alts no problem. But I rarely see anyone selling gold itself as it is now so readily available. There will always be a business of it but they have taken legs out from it and now you are left with the services side mainly for real money exchange: PVP carries, botting, PVE carries and BOE item sales but those are even less than in vanilla. Vanilla where you would get 5 whispers an hour while raiding, you would have people in the raid general chat spamming gold/character sales and not to mention the 2 major capitol cities IF/Org, where trade, general and world channels would have more gold spam than LFG/LFM spam. Buying services with gold is not a result of the token but the availability of gold in the world. So please tell me again that against ToS gold buying has increased, so we can all laugh at you some more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    The main difference between Legion and Classic is that you have so many safe and lucrative ways to farm gold in Legion. Soloing old raids for example. In vanilla there aren't that many ways to farm gold, and on pvp servers it's definitely not safe. So you would have to work a lot harder for your gold which in turn would dictate how much a wow token would be worth.

    If a token costs 20 dollars and on your server you'll only get 200 gold for it it might not be worth it for a lot of people.
    Just like currently the 200k is not worth it for a lot of people..... I know that 200k is not worth it for me to spend 20 usd on it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    I completely disagree with your statement that it has a little impact on the economy actually... or well it's not my opinion, but a fact: The tokens did have a massive impact on the ingame economy. Even though Gold income in general has been massively nerfed since WoD (smaller and less Gold rewards ingame) the Prices of basically everything have skyrocketed: be it items in the auction house, or boost Services.

    Players have now a quick, safe and easy way to get 300k gold (on EU), which is obviously inflating the economy.
    This is not due to the token though but due to the availability of currency in the game in the last 2 expansions. Currently you can make 150k weekly from Garrison 2.0 and the if you equip a follower with 3 gold items another 250 per world quest completed. Seeing that you can clear them every couple days and you get about 40-50 quests a clear 12.5k per clear 4 times a week that is another 50k right there and that is not including the quests that also give gold. Make the character clearing a herbalist and enchanter and you get even more from the mats, grey items picked up and what ever else drops. So that alone puts you over a 250k a week right there. This is the cause of inflation, not the token because the token does not add gold to an economy it just moves the wealth around.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaelexi View Post
    So please tell me again that against ToS gold buying has increased, so we can all laugh at you some more.
    It has increased in total gold sold, though the gold inflation has sped up more than ever before. Services against the ToS are selling well cause people can pay with gold. This was my only point, and your anecdotal examples don't really mean anything. People do not spam in the game anymore because cause it isn't cost effective, and it's better done elsewhere or not at all. People already know about the fact you can buy gold and they know how to google. Getting on top of google search results is where its at right now.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by LoveLove View Post
    It has increased in total gold sold, though the gold inflation has sped up more than ever before. Services against the ToS are selling well cause people can pay with gold. This was my only point, and your anecdotal examples don't really mean anything. People do not spam in the game anymore because cause it isn't cost effective, and it's better done elsewhere or not at all. People already know about the fact you can buy gold and they know how to google. Getting on top of google search results is where its at right now.
    Trading services for gold are not against the ToS at all. Never have been...... It is only against the ToS when you are directly trading real currency for the services of Of course it has increased the total gold sold because it is not against the ToS and it is done in a controlled method where people are not scared of losing your account or worse your identity..... Providing a monitored and controlled method of purchasing gold only helps the market, improves gameplay and lowers the number of GM interactions.
    Last edited by Chaelexi; 2018-03-09 at 02:35 PM.

  18. #118
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aluser View Post
    vanilla didn't have a fair playing field so why should a recreation have one

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    Since it wasn't criminal i don't see the problem. Unless you are Gandhi or similar extreme high morale person you most likely have done something that society consider unethical or something that breaks civil law at some point and gained knowledge due to it

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    bnet currency with which they buy something they can sell for real money somewhere or something they can sell for something else that can then be converted to cash.
    Only way bnet currency would shut it down would be if everything you could get for it was online and bound to your account and then only maybe
    everything you buy in the bnet store is bound to your account though...
    also really you think they are going to go through the trouble of then ordering stuff from the store, have it shipped to them, then try to sell it on the streets?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    everything you buy in the bnet store is bound to your account though...
    also really you think they are going to go through the trouble of then ordering stuff from the store, have it shipped to them, then try to sell it on the streets?
    Have you seen some of the garbage people buy on Ebay? Not saying "they" would do this, but nobody sells on the streets much, unless their inventory is free. Oh, wait.. :P

    If something is cheaper on Ebay than it is on Blizzard's cash shop, would people spring for it? maybe. Some. Along the lines of what others have mentioned earlier, about converting in-game gold into RL currency. It seems possible now that the OP has made awareness of it.
    Last edited by Vineri; 2018-03-09 at 12:09 AM.

  20. #120
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vineri View Post
    Have you seen some of the garbage people buy on Ebay? Not saying "they" would do this, but nobody sells on the streets much, unless their inventory is free. Oh, wait.. :P

    If something is cheaper on Ebay than it is on Blizzard's cash shop, would people spring for it? maybe. Some. Along the lines of what others have mentioned earlier, about converting in-game gold into RL currency. It seems possible now that the OP has made awareness of it.
    Chinese gold farmers would find other games that would make them much more money.
    they would not go through the trouble of buyying wow tokens for gold, then using that money to buy stuff from the bnet store, and have it shipped somewhere, there would not be enough profit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

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