When will the Horde ever have a solid warchief again?

[Skoll Shorties]

Just make Thrall Warchief again. I don't care if he's "fucked up too many times" he did a fine job as Warchief and if you just ignore his... "failings" if that's what you want to call them, but he's the founder of the current Horde and if not for him it wouldn't have even been connected as it is now. We need an Orc Warchief who's young-ish? Thrall is the perfect candidate.

[Bigguy28]

Garrosh was awful and I'll never understand how anyone liked him. His mental instability wasn't at all sudden, it was telegraphed from the start. He spent most of his life in Nagrand crying about how pointless everything was, then suddenly in Wrath he is all "Me orc smash, me hate alliance even though I just heard about you five minutes ago" and it just goes down hill from there until he goes out crying about how it was everyone's fault but his. He should have never left Outland let alone be put in command of anything more important than Peons.

I like Sylvanas, hope she gets a huge redemption and leads the Horde into a brighter more prosperous future just to piss off her haters.

[JustRob]

Let me stop you right there. How is this any different from Garrosh?

Before MoP and even during the first half of MoP Garrosh always acted in the best interest of the Horde. Sylvanas only does what benefits herself.

[Zerzuru]

Galzowe for Warchief! He is the only real option left ! Say no to slutchief! People of the Horde, are you with me ?

[Riproarin]

My opinion is that Sylvanas is to be a temporary warchief while they set up a new character to become the final long lasting warchief. I do not think Sylvanas will go comeplete evil and become a raid boss either tho. I think through this expansion we might see her character change a bit to be a little more caring of the whole horde and I think she will step down for someone else to be warchief someday.

[ophion1990]

Pretty sure Grom is gonna play atleast some part in the Mag'har orc recruitement (there's a /silly reference to him), he's really the most solid warchief I could imagine for the Horde. I mean, when has a Hellscream ever led us astray?

Or maybe when Thrall gets his head out of his ass and decides to clean the mess he started.

[ohwell]

A related question is whether the Horde would embrace a "solid" Warchief, if we could even agree on what that is. I get the impression that many players prefer their Warchief to be an edgelord like Sylvanas.

If by edgelord you mean shrewd and tactical then yes.

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My opinion is that Sylvanas is to be a temporary warchief while they set up a new character to become the final long lasting warchief. I do not think Sylvanas will go comeplete evil and become a raid boss either tho. I think through this expansion we might see her character change a bit to be a little more caring of the whole horde and I think she will step down for someone else to be warchief someday.

I mean she didn't even want it tbh. In that excerpt from the novel coming out(at least I think it was from that) she pretty much said she detested all of the horde revelry. Undercity she could control and not have all the pomp and whatever which was fine and she was her own person. The horde was far more dependent on a leader in general which is something she feels she can be. Who knows, BFA could change that.

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Pretty sure Grom is gonna play atleast some part in the Mag'har orc recruitement (there's a /silly reference to him), he's really the most solid warchief I could imagine for the Horde. I mean, when has a Hellscream ever led us astray?

Or maybe when Thrall gets his head out of his ass and decides to clean the mess he started.

The more we can keep Metzen away from the franchise the better. He said he'd still voice Thrall. I mean Metzen is like the Donald Trump of game devs.

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Implying they ever had a solid warchief to begin with.

Thrall was pretty solid up til Cata.

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Let me stop you right there. How is this any different from Garrosh?

Garrosh's interests were the horde, but his vision of the horde didn't line up with the current horde.

[In Ogres We Trust]

We have one, thanks. Sylvanas is overwhelmingly supported by the Horde playerbase. The fact that she makes the alliance moms froth at the mouth just makes her that much more appealing.

According to whom? Personally, I find her to be a worthless addition as Warchief, and to be frank, I feel like it cheapens the game as well as the Horde.

[JustRob]

Thrall isn't gonna work because he's a pacifist. He just wants everyone to leave the Horde alone so they can live in the territory they hold currently. It would be very uncharacteristic of him to suddenly start being aggressive towards the Alliance. We need a Horde leader who wants war, not peace, but without turning the whole world against him in the process.

Baine also wouldn't work for that reason. He's even worse than Thrall in that regard.

[Pawstruck]

Looking for a huge, unprecedented story event in BfA, otherwise we're in a bad lot. Garrosh did nothing wrong, and it's his sort of leadership's passing-away that marks an actual, real-life cultural shift. People don't remember the hard virtues because they're spoiled rotten. Heroism, patriotism, self-sacrifice, righteous vengeance... these can't exist in a spoiled-rotten generation.

That generation currently works at Blizzard, and that is why Garrosh died.

I'm switching Alliance anyway. If they make Anduin gay, though, I'll quit the game - without blinking an eye.

[Syegfryed]

when the warchief be orc again, everything beyond that is stupid or bad

[Soon-TM]

I was all for Garrosh until the story of Mists played out, then I was all for Lor'themar being Warchief. Vol'jin didn't even get to do anything. Sylvanas being Warchief seems like what we need right now. I think they'll have her keep the mantle for several expansions.

Yep. MoP story was surprisingly solid actually, but the sheer mistreatment of Garrosh is one of its (if not the) weakest points.

[Nnyco]

sylvannas is a great leader, atleast she doesnt need to look at genn everytime she has to do a choice to find reassurance

[bufferunderrun]

Thrall named his son after a condom brand? That's cute.

yup it's an hint he will last forever

[A dot Ham]

Garrosh's interests were the horde, but his vision of the horde didn't line up with the current horde.

So that doesn't sound selfish to you? Its HIS vision...

[JustRob]

So that doesn't sound selfish to you? Its HIS vision...

If you're the warchief, it's fine to follow your vision of the Horde. But not if that directly endangers the well being of the Horde part that isn't orcs.

[A dot Ham]

Before MoP and even during the first half of MoP Garrosh always acted in the best interest of the Horde. Sylvanas only does what benefits herself.

Disagree completely. He was always a trigger happy warmonger... Making the horde stronger, met HIS need for conquest and battle. Totally and equally selfish.

Because it definitely wasn't in the horde's best interest to continue perpetual bloodshed.

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If you're the warchief, it's fine to follow your vision of the Horde. But not if that directly endangers the well being of the Horde part that isn't orcs.

Ya because Garrosh didn't protect his own or openly criticize the other race leaders... delusional. And it DID endanger the well being of the horde. You don't get to separate MoP Garrosh... from the Garrosh you have fabricated in your mind.

I'm sure his motives for going back in time and rallying his pops and helping to create the iron horde for the sole purpose of conquering all of Azeroth... were pretty altruistic too. The guy is a selfish cunt... period. end of story... and now he's dead.

[Realitytrembles]

I'll be honest. I miss Garrosh. I think he was utterly wasted as a character, all of his potential completely pissed away. Say what you will about him, but the man was a fucking badass. He got your blood pumping when playing Horde, he made you feel proud to serve the Horde. He actually had the balls to move against the Alliance aggressively instead of sitting on his throne making peace treaties.

He was a disgusting tyrant that didn't see his actions would turn even some of his own against him.

My first toon was Horde. I always liked the idea of an alliance of typically "monster" races trying to find a different way. Then Garrosh came along and shat all over that. I thereupon shelved my Horde toons I was so pissed. Was briefly intrigued by the idea of Voljin, then Blizz went full moron and made the only leader worse than Garrosh warchief.

With all that we know about Sylvie from ingame and her solo story, she is legit evil, just trying to avoid the hellish death she saw.

The "noble savages trying to find a new way" Horde that I liked playing is dead and gone. It died to give birth to a faction that teen edgelords want to play because RAAAWRRRRRRR BAD GUYZ.

disgusting

[JustRob]

Disagree completely. He was always a trigger happy warmonger... Making the horde stronger, met HIS need for conquest and battle. Totally and equally selfish.

Because it definitely wasn't in the horde's best interest to continue perpetual bloodshed.

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Ya because Garrosh didn't protect his own or openly criticize the other race leaders... delusional. And it DID endanger the well being of the horde. You don't get to separate MoP Garrosh... from the Garrosh you have fabricated in your mind.

I'm sure his motives for going back in time and rallying his pops and helping to create the iron horde for the sole purpose of conquering all of Azeroth... were pretty altruistic too. The guy is a selfish cunt... period. end of story... and now he's dead.

I do get to do that. His personality made a complete 180 in MoP. Blizzard did that. Garrosh was awesome until MoP started.

[Zuben]

To be fair, every single one of the people present there would have been slain by the Lich King anyway. Bolvar got "lucky". Dranosh just had the balls to charge in first. If the Forsaken hadn't shown up, the Lich King would have killed each and every one of them. None of them stood a ghost of a chance.

Yeah, I wonder if they actually had a plan or did they really underestimate the Lich King that badly. Be that as it may, the plan couldn't have been "let this one orc charge in alone". Dranosh's brashness served him badly. His old man seems to have same kind of trouble judging by datamines.

The Stonetalon Event was a one time thing, and even Blizzard themselves (or rather the Story Writer who followed Metzen, sorry I can't recall his name, but he was rather annoying) pointed that out on Twitter, saying that the Stonetalon Event wasn't really about Garrosh learning about honor and being a "cool guy", but more about being pissed that a general of his didn't fall in line.

That is one way to retcon it, but originally it was as it seemed, because there was miscommunication among the team about where they were taking Garrosh's development. Don't have a source at hand, but I remember reading such from a blue.