The Deathlord after the Legion

[Felixon]

We all know,that amidst the war against the Burning Legion,in which everyone threw everything they had against Legion,some went too far,and those were the Knights of the Ebon Blade lead by the Deathlord - pc. Not only the DK order killed a bunch of paladins in the paladin's order to attempt to ressurect the Tirion as the Fourth Horseman,but also,the DK's turned the storm drake matriarch into a zombie dragon and ofc,killed a bunch of the red dragons to ressurect a long dead red dragon.Ofcourse you can say,that it was the Lich King,who threw you those brilliant ideas cause the main target was to defeat the Burning Legion,and in that case,the DK's didn't think too much of the way,how the task is done.

All above mentioned,makes you think,that,well,the Deathlord has commited some serious transgressions,and that there should consequences for them.So,here are few questions:
1)Will the Deathlord somehow realize the wrongs of his actions?Will he understand,that he was manipulated by the LK or even influenced (not mind controlled) to act like this?
2)Will the Deathlord get some kind of punishment or every faction will pretend,that the DK Legion campaign didn't happen and live like nothing happened?
3)Can the Deathlord be considered as a villain or do you think,that what he did,was necessary in order to defeat the Legion?

[Deleted]

1. The Deathlord is the player so I mean maybe they'll feel remorse for what they did in a videogame? Everyone knows they were just doing what Bolvar told them to though, to get that sweet sweet artifact power

2. Everyone will pretend that it didn't happen.

3. I'd say attacking the paladins was unnecessary, so the Deathlord is probably more of a dickish anti hero.

[Deathbelf]

1. Yes and no. Being manipulated by the LK sucks but when you have your hands tied oh well, you stopped the Legion so mission accomplished. DKs are killing machines built to not have remorse.
2. Nothing will happen not because of the story but because of blizzard not seeing reason to bring it up. Maybe in a Wrath2.0 xpack it may be spoken of but I would be surprised if it’s a point of interest in BfA.
3. Yes and no. What he did was villainous and evil in the eyes of many so to some the Ebon Blade are very much villains. The Deathlord knows though that if they didn’t fulfill Bolvar’s wishes he was going to unleash the Scourge again. They made a choice that was the best they could make at the time.

[Felixon]

About your last sentence - so, you,that the Deathlord became a minion of the Lich King from the moment,he spoke to him for the very first time?Do you think,that none of the Deathlord's decisions were not actually his own?I remember,that Mograine asks you "are you really sure,that you want to attack the Light's Hope?Well,you're the Deathlord,If you decide so,I will follow".Well,but maybe the Deathlord really acted like this out of a fear,that the LK will unleash the Scourge on Azeroth,which would ultimately lead to its doom,cause fighting the Legion and the Scourge at the same time would be quite impossible.

[Shelly]

Can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

I (being the Deathlord in this case) did exactly what was necessary to not only stop the Legion but to keep the unlimited undead armies of the Scourge held at bay in Northrend.

That's the one thing folks seem to forget, the Ebon Blade and Deathlord in particular act as emissaries and enforcers of the Lich King to keep him from unleashing the Scourge to fight back against the Legion. As shown in the Felo'Melorn questline we know that Bolvar has other powerful thralls in his keeping, lost adventurers and treasure hunters to say nothing of the nerubians, fallen quest takers and lost souls populating Icecrown Glacier.

All of these and the plague would have been used by him to stop the Legion and would have turned at least the Broken Isles into an undead wasteland.

Then to make matters worse he'd have control over the Nightwell and probably enslave all the trapped souls of Azuna and all the souls in Blackrook Hold.

Did the Ebon Blade go too far?

You'd only say so if you didn't know that they were fighting a war on two fronts.

[Kagthul]

We all know,that amidst the war against the Burning Legion,in which everyone threw everything they had against Legion,some went too far,and those were the Knights of the Ebon Blade lead by the Deathlord - pc. Not only the DK order killed a bunch of paladins in the paladin's order to attempt to ressurect the Tirion as the Fourth Horseman,

Yes... and? When will people realize that protagonist does not mean "good" or "heroic" in Warcraft and literally never has? .

but also,the DK's turned the storm drake matriarch into a zombie dragon

... so what?

and ofc,killed a bunch of the red dragons to

This isn't canon, the FoS was removed precisely because of this. Number of Red Dragons i killed doing this quest: Zero.

ressurect a long dead red dragon.

Yes, and? Necromancy is part of the Death Knight kit. What are you even getting at? If Necromancy (in general) is some terrible transgression then Warlocks should be killed on sight because the shit they do is an order of magnitude worse.

Ofcourse you can say,that it was the Lich King,who threw you those brilliant ideas cause the main target was to defeat the Burning Legion,and in that case,the DK's didn't think too much of the way,how the task is done.

All above mentioned,makes you think,that,well,the Deathlord has commited some serious transgressions,

Against... who precisely? The Order of the Silver Hand forgave the Deathknights, so that's off the table.... So.. who were these supposed "transgressions" against? The Red Dragons? Why? The dragon you ressurrect to create your new mount is, as you say, long dead. They have no claim over her anymore. Alextrasza can whistle for it.

and that there should consequences for them.

Uhh... why? If every "evil" character class should be "held to account" then every single Warlock needs to die. They are FAR WORSE than the DK's. They literally deal in the souls of living creatures and enslave creatures against their will. And just so we're clear, here, my original character, all the way from the Vanilla beta, is a Warlock. Warlocks are -unquestionably evil- on a scale that the Deathknights never were. Rogues are pretty awful people too. Shadow Priests literally court the Void and insanity and commit all sorts of depraved acts.

So,here are few questions:
1)Will the Deathlord somehow realize the wrongs of his actions?

Wrong according to who? The entire theme of the Death Knights this expac was that they A) know without a single doubt that merely being DeathKnights makes them damned, and B) since they are already damned, they will take the morally questionable actions that the living cannot. It's quite literally one of the common NPC sayings - "We do what the living cannot".

If you're trying to say the Deathknights are evil... ahhh.. yup. They never, ever, pretended to be otherwise. But theyre on the right side, and if a few Paladins had to die (remember that they attacked when 95% of the Order was away defending the Priest order hall from attack) for the war to be ended, so be it. Their deaths prevented hundreds or thousands of others from dying needlessly. Most Paladins would happily sacrifice their lives for that outcome. And... during the Ashbringer quests, the Order of the Silver Hand calls it even after the Deathlord and Ebon Blade help empower Ashbringer.

Will he understand,that he was manipulated by the LK or even influenced (not mind controlled) to act like this?

Influenced? No. Threatened with extinction? Yes. Not that you (the Deathlord) much seem to care. Remember that Bolvar only agrees to allow the Order to be his champions because his only other alternative is to simply unleash the Scourge and scour Azeroth clean of life, Legion included. Which he says he will do if you fail.

2)Will the Deathlord get some kind of punishment or every faction will pretend,that the DK Legion campaign didn't happen and live like nothing happened?

Why would they pretend it didn't happen? What did the Order of the Ebon Blade do to 99% of the factions? Answer: Nothing, other than potentially save their asses from the Legion and definitely, 100% saved them from being swept away by the unleashed Scourge.... not that most of Azeroth is aware of that second one, as the existence of Bolvar as the Lich King is not widely known (the Highlord of the Silver Hand knows, Jaina and Sylvannas know, and the Death Knights know... everyone else.. not so much).

But... what "crimes" did they commit against the Horde or Alliance? None. They broke Koltira out of jail.. big deal (and it cant be proven that they did that as you kill all the witnesses). Killing the Red Dragons isn't canon (and isn't necessarily in-game to complete the quest) so that never happened.... and Alextrasza has no claim on a long-dead Red Dragon. Was it a NICE thing to do? No, not at all. But it wasn't some serious transgression against the Red Dragonflight - not that they have the power to do fuck-all about it anyway. The Ebon Blade would just kill them all. Wake up one morning to find Acherus floating over Wyrmrest, and that's that.

3)Can the Deathlord be considered as a villain or do you think,that what he did,was necessary in order to defeat the Legion?

The Deathlord, like ANY Deathknight, IS EVIL. Just like EVERY WARLOCK, EVERY SHADOW PRIEST, and EVERY ROGUE. And those are just the classes i know the most about.

They are BAD PEOPLE. They do terrible things to people....

But they do them to save Azeroth.

Not all the protagonists in Warcraft are "good".

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Can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

I (being the Deathlord in this case) did exactly what was necessary to not only stop the Legion but to keep the unlimited undead armies of the Scourge held at bay in Northrend.

That's the one thing folks seem to forget, the Ebon Blade and Deathlord in particular act as emissaries and enforcers of the Lich King to keep him from unleashing the Scourge to fight back against the Legion. As shown in the Felo'Melorn questline we know that Bolvar has other powerful thralls in his keeping, lost adventurers and treasure hunters to say nothing of the nerubians, fallen quest takers and lost souls populating Icecrown Glacier.

All of these and the plague would have been used by him to stop the Legion and would have turned at least the Broken Isles into an undead wasteland.

Then to make matters worse he'd have control over the Nightwell and probably enslave all the trapped souls of Azuna and all the souls in Blackrook Hold.

Did the Ebon Blade go too far?

You'd only say so if you didn't know that they were fighting a war on two fronts.

QFMFT.

Someone gets it.

[Deleted]

QFMFT.

Someone gets it.

Could you explain the two front war thing?
I'm interested, I'm not criticizing

[Felixon]

Yes... and? When will people realize that protagonist does not mean "good" or "heroic" in Warcraft and literally never has? .



... so what?



This isn't canon, the FoS was removed precisely because of this. Number of Red Dragons i killed doing this quest: Zero.



Yes, and? Necromancy is part of the Death Knight kit. What are you even getting at? If Necromancy (in general) is some terrible transgression then Warlocks should be killed on sight because the shit they do is an order of magnitude worse.



Against... who precisely? The Order of the Silver Hand forgave the Deathknights, so that's off the table.... So.. who were these supposed "transgressions" against? The Red Dragons? Why? The dragon you ressurrect to create your new mount is, as you say, long dead. They have no claim over her anymore. Alextrasza can whistle for it.



Uhh... why? If every "evil" character class should be "held to account" then every single Warlock needs to die. They are FAR WORSE than the DK's. They literally deal in the souls of living creatures and enslave creatures against their will. And just so we're clear, here, my original character, all the way from the Vanilla beta, is a Warlock. Warlocks are -unquestionably evil- on a scale that the Deathknights never were. Rogues are pretty awful people too. Shadow Priests literally court the Void and insanity and commit all sorts of depraved acts.



Wrong according to who? The entire theme of the Death Knights this expac was that they A) know without a single doubt that merely being DeathKnights makes them damned, and B) since they are already damned, they will take the morally questionable actions that the living cannot. It's quite literally one of the common NPC sayings - "We do what the living cannot".

If you're trying to say the Deathknights are evil... ahhh.. yup. They never, ever, pretended to be otherwise. But theyre on the right side, and if a few Paladins had to die (remember that they attacked when 95% of the Order was away defending the Priest order hall from attack) for the war to be ended, so be it. Their deaths prevented hundreds or thousands of others from dying needlessly. Most Paladins would happily sacrifice their lives for that outcome. And... during the Ashbringer quests, the Order of the Silver Hand calls it even after the Deathlord and Ebon Blade help empower Ashbringer.



Influenced? No. Threatened with extinction? Yes. Not that you (the Deathlord) much seem to care. Remember that Bolvar only agrees to allow the Order to be his champions because his only other alternative is to simply unleash the Scourge and scour Azeroth clean of life, Legion included. Which he says he will do if you fail.



Why would they pretend it didn't happen? What did the Order of the Ebon Blade do to 99% of the factions? Answer: Nothing, other than potentially save their asses from the Legion and definitely, 100% saved them from being swept away by the unleashed Scourge.... not that most of Azeroth is aware of that second one, as the existence of Bolvar as the Lich King is not widely known (the Highlord of the Silver Hand knows, Jaina and Sylvannas know, and the Death Knights know... everyone else.. not so much).

But... what "crimes" did they commit against the Horde or Alliance? None. They broke Koltira out of jail.. big deal (and it cant be proven that they did that as you kill all the witnesses). Killing the Red Dragons isn't canon (and isn't necessarily in-game to complete the quest) so that never happened.... and Alextrasza has no claim on a long-dead Red Dragon. Was it a NICE thing to do? No, not at all. But it wasn't some serious transgression against the Red Dragonflight - not that they have the power to do fuck-all about it anyway. The Ebon Blade would just kill them all. Wake up one morning to find Acherus floating over Wyrmrest, and that's that.



The Deathlord, like ANY Deathknight, IS EVIL. Just like EVERY WARLOCK, EVERY SHADOW PRIEST, and EVERY ROGUE. And those are just the classes i know the most about.

They are BAD PEOPLE. They do terrible things to people....

But they do them to save Azeroth.

Not all the protagonists in Warcraft are "good".

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QFMFT.

Someone gets it.

It's not that having the zombie dragon or a class mount drastically changed something in a fight against the Legion.The only time we even see the legendary super-mega-strong Four Horseman do something useful apart from the amazing table missions,is a short quest on the Broken Shore.That's it. I'm not saying,that it wasn't necessary to beat the crap out of the Legion,i'm saying,that the methods the order used to reach their goals wasn't the best decisions they could have had.Heck,the order becomes the puppets of the Lich King - even that lich in the order hall is mocking the Deathlord and pointing towards the fact,that he's Bolvar's puppet. And I disagree,that all of the death knights are essentially evil - yes,they are made to inflict the pain and can't live without it,but it doesn't mean,that they are mindless zombies.You can build your character's story the way you want to,as long as you keep him in the class fantasies borders and you aren't running around Cathedral's Square yelling that "IM an undead paladin!".

[Aucald]

1)Will the Deathlord somehow realize the wrongs of his actions?Will he understand,that he was manipulated by the LK or even influenced (not mind controlled) to act like this?

I don't think the Deathlord believes their actions were "wrong," per se. They did what needed to be done for the good of Azeroth, even if that involved doing things that were morally gray (or midnight black). They also didn't seem to be mentally controlled or dominated in any way by the Lich King - perhaps manipulated by circumstance, as it were, but not mentally influenced in any way. The Ebon Blade has always embraced "the ends justify the means" as a philosophy since their first introduction as protagonists in WotLK.

2)Will the Deathlord get some kind of punishment or every faction will pretend,that the DK Legion campaign didn't happen and live like nothing happened?

That really depends on whether or not the other factions know what the Ebon Blade got up to during Legion. Relations between them and the Paladins would likely be strained, and they'll no doubt have the enmity of the Red Dragonflight as well for attacking their sanctum in Northrend. I don't think either of those organization wishes to go to war with the Death Knights, though; the Paladins are otherwise too committed elsewhere and the Red Dragonflight are few in number and in a weakened state since the loss of the Aspects.

3)Can the Deathlord be considered as a villain or do you think,that what he did,was necessary in order to defeat the Legion?

The Deathlord would be pretty firmly in the anti-hero mold - a "hero" otherwise willing to indulge in morally dubious acts and making bargains with dark entities in the commission of an otherwise noble goal. Whether or not anything they did was necessary in order to defeat the Legion or safeguard Azeroth is more a subjective or personal question.

[Kagthul]

It's not that having the zombie dragon or a class mount drastically changed something in a fight against the Legion.The only time we even see the legendary super-mega-strong Four Horseman do something useful apart from the amazing table missions,is a short quest on the Broken Shore.That's it. I'm not saying,that it wasn't necessary to beat the crap out of the Legion,i'm saying,that the methods the order used to reach their goals wasn't the best decisions they could have had.Heck,the order becomes the puppets of the Lich King - even that lich in the order hall is mocking the Deathlord and pointing towards the fact,that he's Bolvar's puppet. And I disagree,that all of the death knights are essentially evil - yes,they are made to inflict the pain and can't live without it,but it doesn't mean,that they are mindless zombies.You can build your character's story the way you want to,as long as you keep him in the class fantasies borders and you aren't running around Cathedral's Square yelling that "IM an undead paladin!".

... so you dont refute anything i pointed out.

Gotcha.

Your entire premise is bunk.

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Could you explain the two front war thing?
I'm interested, I'm not criticizing

Bolvar straight up tells the Deathlord that if you dont beat the Legion, he's pulling the Nuclear Option - I.E. hell unleash the Scourge in their full might, scouring Azeroth clean of life, Legion included.

[LoLcano]

Like lots of others "plot" we gonna pretend DK storyline didnt happen in legion.. i mean they literally pissed off both faction and few neutral faction.

[KevtheWise]

Bolvar straight up tells the Deathlord that if you dont beat the Legion, he's pulling the Nuclear Option - I.E. hell unleash the Scourge in their full might, scouring Azeroth clean of life, Legion included.

Does he say this during the mount quest? That's the only thing I haven't done on my DK, and I don't recall him saying anything like this in other quests.

[Deleted]

Does he say this during the mount quest? That's the only thing I haven't done on my DK, and I don't recall him saying anything like this in other quests.

No, he says this right at the beginning. He tells you that he promised to be the jailor of the damned going forward and if you want him to keep doing that, you're going to fulfill his wishes. He's going to give you a little treat too by showing you were a weapon is. But if you get killed while chasing it, he's going to keep you and the weapon.

[Kagthul]

Does he say this during the mount quest? That's the only thing I haven't done on my DK, and I don't recall him saying anything like this in other quests.

Then you werent paying attention. He implies it in the very first quest, and the outright says that if you should fall, he has other plans for the Ebon Blade and he will unleash the Scourge... which he has already admitted he cant control if they get too far from Northrend (as he is not as powerful (yet) as Arthas), which means the Scourge will just wipe out everything that isnt Scourge.

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Like lots of others "plot" we gonna pretend DK storyline didnt happen in legion.. i mean they literally pissed off both faction and few neutral faction.

Uhh... how did they piss of EITHER major faction?

They didnt do anything provable to either one. The only thing that might count is freeing Koltira, but there are no witnesses to that, as you kill them all.

They did literally nothing to either major faction.

[Romanthony]

See all this Razes alot of questions not just dor Dks, I mean we go from "lets work together" like the Uncrowned The unseen path some of there dialogue even states "We forget our petty feuds with one another to focus on a greater task" to all out factions where i mean wat?

[lightofdawn]

1. The Deathlord is the player so I mean maybe they'll feel remorse for what they did in a videogame? Everyone knows they were just doing what Bolvar told them to though, to get that sweet sweet artifact power

2. Everyone will pretend that it didn't happen.

3. I'd say attacking the paladins was unnecessary, so the Deathlord is probably more of a dickish anti hero.

i think the fact that we can say "yeah, the deathlord got beat up by our church" is suffering enough. i forgive my alt for his transgressions

[Felrane]

I could see blizzard just pretending that the class order hall storylines and the artifacts are non-canon.

[Friendlyimmolation]

"woa take it easy fellas it was just a prank."

-The Deathlord surrounded by paladins after he loses his artifact.

[KevtheWise]

Then you werent paying attention. He implies it in the very first quest, and the outright says that if you should fall, he has other plans for the Ebon Blade and he will unleash the Scourge... which he has already admitted he cant control if they get too far from Northrend (as he is not as powerful (yet) as Arthas), which means the Scourge will just wipe out everything that isnt Scourge.

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Uhh... how did they piss of EITHER major faction?

They didnt do anything provable to either one. The only thing that might count is freeing Koltira, but there are no witnesses to that, as you kill them all.

They did literally nothing to either major faction.

Seems like you weren't paying attention as well. Who were the first two horsemen, and what major fractions did they come from?

[Kagthul]

Seems like you weren't paying attention as well. Who were the first two horsemen, and what major fractions did they come from?

... and? You didn't track them down and murder them. They were dead. Permanent-like.

I paid attention just fine. Maybe go back and watch the cutscenes again on YouTube.

The Horde and Alliance have no claim to them any longer.

And they both came along willingly and enthusiastically, so neither faction has a leg to stand on in any way. Remember that when you raised the first three Horsemen, they were all offered a chance to return to the grave; even Whitemane accepted willingly. Darion didn't even give you a chance to get far enough to offer - he merely realized that he'd been avoiding this (his destiny) for too long and said "lets do it".

You keep trying to apply what would be modern morals and a modern sense of right and wrong to a world where those things are VERY different because of the existence of magic.