When will the Horde ever have a solid warchief again?

[Felixon]

I'll be honest. I miss Garrosh. I think he was utterly wasted as a character, all of his potential completely pissed away. Say what you will about him, but the man was a fucking badass. He got your blood pumping when playing Horde, he made you feel proud to serve the Horde. He actually had the balls to move against the Alliance aggressively instead of sitting on his throne making peace treaties.

And then they turned him batshit crazy and set him on a quest for world domination. Sigh.

Then we got Vol'jin, who did absolutely nothing, got stabbed by a random felguard and died like a bitch. Darkspear never die, huh?

Then we got Sylvanas. Sylvanas is a badass character for sure, but not as warchief. She's always been interesting because she puts her own interests before that of the Horde, and secretly has her own schemes going on. Such a character is not suited for being in charge of the whole fucking Horde.

A lot of people want Saurfang to take the seat, but honestly, he's too old. And he would probably be just like Thrall, trying to avoid aggression and trying to make peace with everyone.

The real problem is the Horde doesn't have any suitable people left to fill the shoes of warchief. Lor'themar? Fuck no. It needs to be an orc, but there aren't any left who are good enough. Thrall has fucked up too many times to take the position again. Saurfang is too old. Dranosh is dead. Garrosh is dead.

I don't know how they're gonna do it, but they need to figure this shit out. It's a fucking joke. The Horde needs a leader that gets the blood pumping again. I go on YouTube, watch the BfA cinematic, and see a lot of people in the comments go "OMG SYLVANAS FOR THE HORDE IS SO BADASS", but honestly I can't consider that badass. The woman has stated that she didn't even want to be warchief, and even now that she is, she sees the Horde merely as a tool to accomplish her own goals. Now look at the Wrathgate cinematic and watch Dranosh Saurfang charge in with a fierce battlecry. That's the kind of leader the Horde needs.

Blizzard needs to get their shit together and make the Horde proud again. I almost wish they'd come up with some bullshit plot device to bring Garrosh back to life and have him redeem himself. But that's not happening. We need another Garrosh, and this time they need to not fuck it up.

I agree with you.I think,that Sylvanas is such overused character,that has served purpose long ago.Yet,they don't want to put her down because of her fanbase.Heck, I guess I'm the only one,who finds her BfA trailers "FOR THE HORDE" more like a mockery of it.By shouting it,she doesn't mean it,she just attempts to rally her forces who are biting the dust one by one.You can see how she actually treats the Horde not only from post-Legion cinematic,where she doesn't even finds necessary to raise her cup and join the whole "FOR THE HORDE" cheer,you see her attitude towards the other members of the Horde but her precious forsaken in the fragments of the latest novel.She doesn't care about the Horde,she doesn't care about the honor,she doesn't care about her own allied races...All that she cares about,is her personal interests.Having such warchief is disgrace to the Horde and kills any wish to play on it's side.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I think Garrosh and Thrall were both miss-served by the Garrosh character arc. Garrosh was always a rash hothead, but he also believed in other aspects of what the Horde stood for - honor among them. Thrall was perhaps less hidebound, having grown up in an unconventional setting from the get-go, but he too believed in the values of the Horde. They rose and fell together.

If I could go back and tweak parts of the story - even assuming I had to leave the bulk of it alone - I would give Garrosh a few shining moments where his honor stood out even as he war-mongered across Azeroth, and I would make sure his fall into madness had a tragic feel. In classic Greek tragedy, the hero felt trapped into pursuing ends which led to their inevitable downfall. As for Thrall, I would leave him out of that final Mak'gora altogether. Instead I would have Vol'jin hunt Garrosh down using his loa/voodoo powers. Vol'jin would never have challenged Garrosh to Mak'gora to begin with, and would (understandably) not have felt bound to it if forced into one. He played by Darkspear rules. Vol'jin would have practiced assymetrical warfare, attacking Garrosh's weaknesses (spirit and ego) rather than his strength, and would have treated him like a dangerous beast to be hunted rather than a sparring partner. Green Jesus had already had his character arc, and should have been left out of it at that point, imho.

[Syegfryed]

I guess I'm the only one,who finds her BfA trailers "FOR THE HORDE" more like a mockery of it.By shouting it,she doesn't mean it,she just attempts to rally her forces who are biting the dust one by one.

its more cringe than mockery TBH, blizzard recently is pushing almost all cinematics into the rule of cool with edgy punch line or something lik that, and when you clearly want to force that it become cringe and unnatural, like in BfA.

And they even contradict themselves, trying to push the felling of old warcraft games like war2, but portrait a undead elf as warchief, this is mockery IMO

[Alex86el]

I agree that for the sake of a good story, Garrosh, as well as Varian were perfect leaders.
There would surely be endless war all the time.
Which would make for an interesting game and story.
As well as many opportunities to build future heroes.

Garrosh was an orc 100%.
And while he was completely in the wrong, and made the Horde look bad, i respected him. (before he went crazy)
He wasnt some human-bred cheater orc-jesus.
Or some opportunistic honorless selfish weeaboo-magnet who couldnt give a shit about the Horde.
He cared for the Horde and he acted like an Orc.

Even though he was a racist, at least he fought for ideals,
And not just himself, like the Dark Waifu does.

Garrosh acted like a true orc.
He wants your stuff? He takes it.
He wants your land? He takes it.
The orc way.

Now, as far as "feeling proud" goes, i have done most quests on both sides.
Especially the newer quests introduced in Cata, always made me feel ashamed, and in the wrong.
Compared to the alliance side, where most HvA quests you are defending against invaders, which naturally makes you feel nice.
Blizz should made Horde more "grey" and less douchebags. In the quests at least.

I agree with what you say for Sylvanas.
After all, she only cares for the "future of the horde" because she needs "arrows in her quiver".
And the poor horde fanbois are too blind to see that, just because she looks cool.
Sadly, i don't think she is going anywhere.

Personally, Voljin was my favorite warchief.
Too bad he did nothing at all, and his death was laughable.

RIP Vol'jin
RIP Varian

[Felixon]

its more cringe than mockery TBH, blizzard recently is pushing almost all cinematics into the rule of cool with edgy punch line or something lik that, and when you clearly want to force that it become cringe and unnatural, like in BfA.

And they even contradict themselves, trying to push the felling of old warcraft games like war2, but portrait a undead elf as warchief, this is mockery IMO

Agreed.I also think,that the original,nowaday Horde,consisted of orcs,tauren and trolls.Okay,pandarens would be fitting as Horde race due to the Chen.All of other races,that have been added,turns the Horde into a circus.

[Felixon]

I agree that for the sake of a good story, Garrosh, as well as Varian were perfect leaders.
There would surely be endless war all the time.
Which would make for an interesting game and story.
As well as many opportunities to build future heroes.

The guy was an orc 100%. I respect that. He wasnt some human-bred cheater orc-jesus.
Or some opportunistic honorless selfish weeaboo-magnet who couldnt give a shit about the Horde.

Even though he was a racist, at least he fought for ideals,
And not just himself, like the Dark Waifu does.

Garrosh acted like a true orc.
He wants your stuff? He takes it.
He wants your land? He takes it.
The orc way.

Now, as far as "feeling proud" goes, i have done most quests on both sides.
Especially the newer quests introduced in Cata, always made me feel ashamed, and in the wrong.
Compared to the alliance side, where most HvA quests you are defending against invaders, which naturally makes you feel nice.
Blizz should made Horde more "grey" and less douchebags. In the quests at least.

I agree with what you say for Sylvanas.
After all, she only cares for the "future of the horde" because she needs "arrows in her quiver".
And the poor horde fanbois are too blind to see that, just because she looks cool.
Sadly, i don't think she is going anywhere.

Personally, Voljin was my favorite warchief.
Too bad he did nothing at all, and his death was laughable.

RIP Vol'jin
RIP Varian

Actually,when you say it like this,I see some plot similaries to the Walking Dead. Rick-Varian,Garrosh - Negan, Anduin - CORAL,who seeks to bring the peace between the both factions. What we have now,is that both "Rick" and "Negan" are dead,and some less interesting characters taking their place.

[opposing critter]

Since this game is so hard coded to warcraft "orcs and humans must kill each other" lore, I hope you enjoy stupid conflict pushed down your throat and down right stupid decisions. At least your current leader has some interesting backstory and has her own agender.

Rather follow her then the kid who need's permission from the Greymane to do anything.

[anaxie]

What about Alleria? Is there a Horde settlement she dumped poison (or a manabomb) on?



Which Alliance racial leader is responsible for those?

Did they have endorsement from the overall leader at the time?



I fail to remember any nation sending its army into "Forsaken lands".

The void worse then chemicals

Southshore was a hostile power near the edge of forsaken lands and was annihilated because the alliance in that same zone had quite a few military battalions up notth to attack the forsaken in their own lands.

Uh yes grand marshal garithos had the complete support of the remains of the lordaeron nobility, ironforge and dalaran. Quite a far stretch from being some rogue commander.

Lol.....?
Have you EVER even leveled a horde. Spoiler alliance all over durotar and the barrens. Alliance all over silverpine hillsbrad and the plaguelands.


Meanwhile in alliances actual lands they are letting westfall duskwood and redridge go to absolute fuxk. Solid faction right there

[nyc81991]

I agree. Sylvanas is cool, but not as Warchief.

[anaxie]

Since this game is so hard coded to warcraft "orcs and humans must kill each other" lore, I hope you enjoy stupid conflict pushed down your throat and down right stupid decisions. At least your current leader has some interesting backstory and has her own agender.

Rather follow her then the kid who need's permission from the Greymane to do anything.

Bfa isnt even pushing much more faction conflict than any other expansion really. So cry a river

Also i thi m you mean its. Trolls, orcs tauren, elves, undead, goblins vs humans.

Horde actuallly gets developed

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Agreed.I also think,that the original,nowaday Horde,consisted of orcs,tauren and trolls.Okay,pandarens would be fitting as Horde race due to the Chen.All of other races,that have been added,turns the Horde into a circus.

Without the eastern horde the horde would of crumbled by now

- - - Updated - - -

I agree with you.I think,that Sylvanas is such overused character,that has served purpose long ago.Yet,they don't want to put her down because of her fanbase.Heck, I guess I'm the only one,who finds her BfA trailers "FOR THE HORDE" more like a mockery of it.By shouting it,she doesn't mean it,she just attempts to rally her forces who are biting the dust one by one.You can see how she actually treats the Horde not only from post-Legion cinematic,where she doesn't even finds necessary to raise her cup and join the whole "FOR THE HORDE" cheer,you see her attitude towards the other members of the Horde but her precious forsaken in the fragments of the latest novel.She doesn't care about the Horde,she doesn't care about the honor,she doesn't care about her own allied races...All that she cares about,is her personal interests.Having such warchief is disgrace to the Horde and kills any wish to play on it's side.

Then quit being a fucking crybaby and quit already

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its more cringe than mockery TBH, blizzard recently is pushing almost all cinematics into the rule of cool with edgy punch line or something lik that, and when you clearly want to force that it become cringe and unnatural, like in BfA.

And they even contradict themselves, trying to push the felling of old warcraft games like war2, but portrait a undead elf as warchief, this is mockery IMO

Whats a mockery is the stagnant joke the alliance has become

Infracted.

[owbu]

I feel like the Horde's identity is so fractured by now that it doesnt really matter who is warchief and how solid he is at his job.
At least one faction will always wave "not my warchief" signs around.

Which will probably stay that way because I dont really see Blizzard actually sticking to a storyline long enough make the development of a new idenity possible.

As long as Blizzard gives Characters the personality they need to have to fit the current szene they are in instead of writing szenes around the personalities their characters have dont expect any solid storytelling or a horde and its warchief that stands for anything.
See: honorable cata Garrosh vs maniac idiot panda Garrosh or how Silvanas cant decide if she is a tragic antihero that cares for her people or an evil psychopath raid boss.

[Felixon]

Bfa isnt even pushing much more faction conflict than any other expansion really. So cry a river

Also i thi m you mean its. Trolls, orcs tauren, elves, undead, goblins vs humans.

Horde actuallly gets developed

- - - Updated - - -



Without the eastern horde the horde would of crumbled by now

- - - Updated - - -



Then quit being a fucking crybaby and quit already

- - - Updated - - -



Whats a mockery is the stagnant joke the alliance has become

Salty much,huh?

[Mehrunes]

I doubt you can find anything that compares to chemical warfare.

Gnomes used a radiological weapon against the Troggs.

What about Alleria? Is there a Horde settlement she dumped poison (or a manabomb) on?

No, instead she unleashed the Void on most important place of Blood Elven culture.

Which Alliance racial leader is responsible for those?

Did they have endorsement from the overall leader at the time?

The first time it was done by the leader of the Alliance at the time. So yeah, endorsement of the leader was kinda automatic. And the second time (which wasn't genocide but "only" cleansing) Varian sent Stormwind troops to help.

I fail to remember any nation sending its army into "Forsaken lands".

*Meanwhile in Silverpine and WPL* Also, by the time Alliance become involved in that conflict, Worgen already abandoned Gilneas and Forsaken already conquered it.

[Techno-Druid]

Thrall isn't gonna work because he's a pacifist. He just wants everyone to leave the Horde alone so they can live in the territory they hold currently. It would be very uncharacteristic of him to suddenly start being aggressive towards the Alliance. We need a Horde leader who wants war, not peace, but without turning the whole world against him in the process.

Baine also wouldn't work for that reason. He's even worse than Thrall in that regard.

Thrall isn't a pacifist by any means, he simply doesn't see a solid reason to fight with the Alliance.

[Zulkhan]

Thrall isn't a pacifist by any means, he simply doesn't see a solid reason to fight with the Alliance.

I wouldn't say Thrall is literally a pacifist (no warrior can be logically considered one by default) but he was surely the only Horde leader truly interested in achieving a degree of harmony with the Alliance, Jaina being his counterpart on the other side. These two characters' friendship clearly helped fostering that mutual objective of theirs.

[Techno-Druid]

I wouldn't say Thrall is literally a pacifist (no warrior can be logically considered one by default) but he was surely the only Horde leader truly interested in achieving a degree of harmony with the Alliance, Jaina being his counterpart on the other side. These two characters' friendship clearly helped fostering that mutual objective of theirs.

Which is a good thing, the conflict between the Horde and Alliance works the best when it feels like an unavoidable tragedy. Warmongers, while their motives may be interesting, end up being kind of one dimensional after a while.

I think the best three options for Warchief (and I may be biased towards orcs here) are either Thrall returning, Saurfang or Rexxar.

Baine seems too peaceful to be Warchief—which isn't necessarily a bad thing as most tauren tribes are aggressive only be necessity—and Rokhan has never really had much development beyond being there.

[JustRob]

Which is a good thing, the conflict between the Horde and Alliance works the best when it feels like an unavoidable tragedy. Warmongers, while their motives may be interesting, end up being kind of one dimensional after a while.

I think the best three options for Warchief (and I may be biased towards orcs here) are either Thrall returning, Saurfang or Rexxar.

Baine seems too peaceful to be Warchief—which isn't necessarily a bad thing as most tauren tribes are aggressive only be necessity—and Rokhan has never really had much development beyond being there.

Maybe, but Thrall did literally nothing. He turned a blind eye to any and all faction conflicts that were happening.

[Techno-Druid]

Maybe, but Thrall did literally nothing. He turned a blind eye to any and all faction conflicts that were happening.

What do you mean Thrall did literally nothing? He's taken steps to ensure peace, but he's never let the Alliance pushing over the Horde.

[JustRob]

What do you mean Thrall did literally nothing? He founded the New Horde.

Yeah but after that he didn't do very much to spark the Horde Alliance war.

[Techno-Druid]

Yeah but after that he didn't do very much to spark the Horde Alliance war.

What competent leader is supposed to start conflict!!!???