Two-Handed Enhancement, Talent thoughts.

[Razaron]

The fact that now weapon damage just scales with attack power, it's never been easier to introduce two-hand enhancement back in to the picture. I know the way enhancement works is very dependant on getting your abilities to proc, so having dual-wield is obviously better. But hear me out, why not make it a talent choice on the last bar with some heavily added bonuses, I'm talking extra chance for windfury to proc, etc. Make it viable so it competes with Ascendance and Earthen Spike.

I know there are people who dislike the notion of two-handed enhancements ever coming back, but I like options. I'd love to have the option to go back two-hand again, it would be way more fun then some of the talents already shown to us. It would be a new addition, aka Grimoire of Sacrifice for warlocks.

Come on blizzard, be more creative in designing talents. Especially the end-game talents, imho Earthen Spike and Elemental Spirits are very boring talents. Spike might be practical when it comes with a very power debuff, but it isn't epic enough for me.

Conclusion, in the end you can disagree but the underlining argument of this post is asking blizzard to be more creative and fun with Enhancement talents, whilst still being a viable talent pick and not upsetting the balance. I hope we can all agree on that! More fun

[willtron]

Windfury has changed, so 2H won't be as fun. If they bring back the quad weapon damage procs (Which was the only reason people liked it), then yes. I'd be all for 2h WF Enhancement.

[Aggrophobic]

No thanks. They will never be able to balance that well anyway.

[Volitar]

Even if they give you 2hand enh it will be nothing like you remember. In Classic/BC autos did a good 40%+ of total damage for every melee. In Legion having the 2hander would really do fuck all.

[Unholyground]

All they need to do is remove the requires you to have a weapon in a specific hand and double the chance of the the windfury proc. Also shaman should be allowed to use polearms since it is more tribal than any other option.

[Razaron]

I should also add that I never said it would be like classic enhancement. Having more options or at least allowing enhancement to viably use two-handed weapons again would be great fun, yes it won't be the same, every class has changed dramatically since vanilla. We play these games for fun, who wouldn't occasionally want to switch up and swing a massive two-handed axe or mace in to someone? Hell, even get your staves out!

[Unholyground]

I believe its not that simple. The way the spec function it would take almost an entire separate design to make 2 handers work. Which is why this sounds like a fun high end talent choice.

I played the spec, it is not that complicated because the damage is singular from every weapon attack source unlike demon hunters.

[op3l]

At this point what weapon you use has really nothing to do with the damage you deal. All weapons are basically just stat sticks now cause they made wow into a whacka mole game where you just press whichever button that lights up.

Back in TBC/WoTLK, auto attack was worth more as damage then it is now. So...

[plato13]

All they need to do is remove the requires you to have a weapon in a specific hand and double the chance of the the windfury proc. Also shaman should be allowed to use polearms since it is more tribal than any other option.

And also glaives while we are at it, because shadowhunter.

[Khrux]

These kind of talents are a terrible idea, they are too binary to ever be balanced against the alternative.

If the 2h talent is even 1% stronger than DW, everyone has to play 2h and there is no choice.
If the 2h talent is even 1% weaker, everyone plays DW and the talent is a waste of space.

Blizzard should be moving away from stuff like this, talents should be about choice depending on the content you doing and not 3 different ways to do the same thing that will always have a 1st, 2nd and 3rd aspect to it.

And when I say "everyone has to play X" I'm referring to progression based gameplay, because anything less than highend pvp or heroic/mythic raiding you can play with a fishing rod equipped.

[brutallord]

Blizzard should be moving away from stuff like this, talents should be about choice depending on the content you doing

Like picking AOE talent for AOE fight and ST talent for ST, right?

[Futhark]

I'm totally going to try this for fun once we can move on from the Legion artifact. Some of us just like the fantasy of swinging a big weapon over min/maxing. As long as I can get WQs done, I'll be happy.

The challenge will be generating Maelstrom and then spending it. I don't like that Boulderfist and Overcharge are on the same talent line on beta because I think both will be needed to make 2Hd playable.

[Razaron]

These kind of talents are a terrible idea, they are too binary to ever be balanced against the alternative.

If the 2h talent is even 1% stronger than DW, everyone has to play 2h and there is no choice.
If the 2h talent is even 1% weaker, everyone plays DW and the talent is a waste of space.

Blizzard should be moving away from stuff like this, talents should be about choice depending on the content you doing and not 3 different ways to do the same thing that will always have a 1st, 2nd and 3rd aspect to it.

And when I say "everyone has to play X" I'm referring to progression based gameplay, because anything less than highend pvp or heroic/mythic raiding you can play with a fishing rod equipped.

Then so be it, let people play for fun.. not for min maxing. If you're a min max player then you don't care anyway, you'll just pick whats the flavour of the month. That's the problem with mmo's these days, it's removed the fantasy out of the game for statistics! MMORPG's > MMO

[Schattenlied]

(Which was the only reason people liked it)

Well that's just a lie... A lot of people prefer 2H to DW simply for aesthetic reasons. I am one of them.

That being said, a talent is unnecessary. All ability damage is based off attack power in BFA, not weapon damage, so if they just removed the offhand weapon requirement from Lava Lash, and the "one handed weapon" requirment from any other abilities that have them, you'd be able to simply equip a 2h weapon and it would perform the same.

Same goes for other classes with weapon restrictions on their abilities currently.

WW monks could use 2h weapons again without issue

BM Monks could use DW without issue

Frost DKs could use 2H weapons without issue

Unholy/Blood DKs could use DW without issue.

Fury Warriors could use 2H without issue.

Arms Warriors could use DW without issue.

Surv HUnters could use DW without issue.


... I think that's all of em.

But you get the point, there is no reason to have these arbitrary "your spec can only dual wield", or "your spec can only use 2h weapons" restrictions anymore... If the class has the ability to equip a weapon type, it would be a viable option, because weapon damage is irrelevant in BFA.

[willtron]

Well that's just a lie... A lot of people prefer 2H to DW simply for aesthetic reasons. I am one of them.

But you get the point, there is no reason to have these arbitrary "your spec can only dual wield", or "your spec can only use 2h weapons" restrictions anymore... If the class has the ability to equip a weapon type, it would be a viable option, because weapon damage is irrelevant in BFA.

Well, except for class fantasy and aesthetic reasons that blizz deems worthy

[Super Kami Dende]

If the 2h talent is even 1% stronger than DW, everyone has to play 2h and there is no choice.
If the 2h talent is even 1% weaker, everyone plays DW and the talent is a waste of space.

Incorrect. Only the Top of the Top raiders and psuedo-elitists actually care about a 1% difference. Hell I'd play 2H Frost over DW even if it was a 5% difference in DW favour. People forget that people like to play RPG's for fun.

Not everything has to be a boring as shit theorycrafting session. Hell I don't even use the "recommended" talents that sites give. I play what I enjoy and tend to still pull numbers close to people that insist they have to play everything they are told too.

Fun>theorycrafting

- - - Updated - - -

Well that's just a lie... A lot of people prefer 2H to DW simply for aesthetic reasons. I am one of them.

That being said, a talent is unnecessary. All ability damage is based off attack power in BFA, not weapon damage, so if they just removed the offhand weapon requirement from Lava Lash, and the "one handed weapon" requirment from any other abilities that have them, you'd be able to simply equip a 2h weapon and it would perform the same.

Same goes for other classes with weapon restrictions on their abilities currently.

WW monks could use 2h weapons again without issue

BM Monks could use DW without issue

Frost DKs could use 2H weapons without issue

Unholy/Blood DKs could use DW without issue.

Fury Warriors could use 2H without issue.

Arms Warriors could use DW without issue.

Surv HUnters could use DW without issue.


... I think that's all of em.

But you get the point, there is no reason to have these arbitrary "your spec can only dual wield", or "your spec can only use 2h weapons" restrictions anymore... If the class has the ability to equip a weapon type, it would be a viable option, because weapon damage is irrelevant in BFA.

Whilst I mostly agree, the one issue they would have would be swing timers on Procs unless everything was PPM. I.e Killing Machine procs on a 2h vs DW etc. (whilst KM is already PPM based, there is still slight difference in approximation.)

[Spiffums]

Please see 2nd Frost to see why this won't happen.

[deathslover]

its not going to happen again. let it die and get over it (my 2 mains are enhance shammy and BM hunter)

[Razaron]

its not going to happen again. let it die and get over it (my 2 mains are enhance shammy and BM hunter)

Thanks for your contribution to the thread..

[Sylar Hao]

Monks had (have?) Way of the Monk which allowed them to use either 1 2H or DW 2 1Hs and the difference was pretty much none, the only reason DW pulled ahead back then was because of weapon enchants (2 enchants were always better than one) but now that they no longer exist, they could just apply the Way of the Monk formula to every class with enough fantasy to dual wield and use 2 handers, remove weapon type requirements for certain abilitilies and let the player choose which aesthetics or fantasy to play with, and voilà, problem solved.

In the case of shaman they could just double the chance for Windfury to proc and the difference would be minimal.

So yes, I'm all for diversity and player choice.